Christians Being Persecuted/discriminated Against In The Usa

[Fidei Defensor]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

 

By devout believers, I mean people like us, who take our faith seriously. Mainstream Christianity is mostly accepted in public, so long as you're politically correct.  

 

I think it's unfair to shame people for their opinions. That may be unpopular, but everyone has the right to form their own opinion. Do I think they're correct? Mostly not. Being gay, I have heard it all. I still respect people who are opposed to this, that and the other thing. I have a differing opinion, maybe, but there is a great need to respect when exchanging ideas and opinions.

 

That all being said, peace be with you all. May you pass this peace along.

[CrossCuT]

 

But in fact I was only calling attention to your ludicrous assertion (below) that I, a member of a cultural minority group, am somehow "othering" you. Cuz somehow I "othered" you when I expressed irritation that you, a member of the majority, shamelessly tell minorities that their struggle is, in your words, "kind of annoying."

 

That was more of a lol

 

 

 

Is this the twilight zone or does kumbaya sauce have a nasty kick at the end. You tell me.

 

Actually it has a smooth finish.

[Ice_nine]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

 

 

qft

[Lilllabettt]

That was more of a lol

 

 

Actually it has a smooth finish.

 

Rounded maltiness that is nonetheless not overpowering. Light to medium body. Cleaner, smoother palate, less fruitness and less yeastiness. 

[CrossCuT]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

 

By devout believers, I mean people like us, who take our faith seriously. Mainstream Christianity is mostly accepted in public, so long as you're politically correct.  

 

I think it's unfair to shame people for their opinions. That may be unpopular, but everyone has the right to form their own opinion. Do I think they're correct? Mostly not. Being gay, I have heard it all. I still respect people who are opposed to this, that and the other thing. I have a differing opinion, maybe, but there is a great need to respect when exchanging ideas and opinions.

 

That all being said, peace be with you all. May you pass this peace along.

Yeah I concur, I dont even know why we deviated onto this weird tangent anyway.

 

 

But getting back to the topic, I guess if we are trying to decide if Christians are being persecuted or discriminated against, we should identify some examples.

 

As far as discrimination goes, i think you would be hard pressed to find some examples that are equal to the law passed in Arizona that is basically a huge discrimination law...not only that but Christians accross the country discriminate against homosexuals anyway even without a law passed.

 

I have no doubt people can cite some personal experiences in how they feel discriminated against as Christians, but the thing we cant really use personal narratives as a basis for a global conclusion. 

I think examples where people are ass hats are just that...ass hats. And besides we have the law in our favor where it is illegal to discriminate against someone for religious reasons.

 

Persecution examples should be weeded out as a personal persecution or a country wide or group wide persecution. How are Christians being persecuted as a whole? 

 

I think the main two areas where people claim any sort of persecution/discrimination arise from these:

Increasing acceptance of homosexual social rights

Healthcare mandate with contraception

 

 

Now Im trying to be completely objective, the gaining of rights for gays does not equal persecution of Christians.

 

 

Yes, it is not in line with the belief system however the laws themselves are just the increase in the same freedoms that heteriosexuals have. How people REACT to these laws can be different though. You can say people are doing the persecuting, but the law is not doing the persecuting. Nothing in that law says "All homosexuals can now be married....and on the first Friday of every month stone a christian."

 

But here is where I think the problem lies.... as Catholics/Christians, we believe we need to spread the good word, to convert the world, be fishers of men etc etc etc. So in THAT sense, you could say it is going against your religious views. But the country is no longer intertwined with religion with the separation of church and state in mind. The country has an obligation to uphold the liberties of all of its members...even if you dont like those other views. (as long as they arent like cray murderous views or something)

 

From an objective point of view, the Christians trying to insert their religious views into politics IS an example of persecution. Because youre essentially saying that everyone needs to believe what you believe and live the way you live. Im not saying thats wrong, because obviously being Catholic is cool beans, but from an objective view, can you see why that is?

 

 

Maybe Im rambling. I am very interested in having a conversation about this but people are super cray and aggressive about it. Id love to voice chat and get people out from under their keyboards.

 

 

My main point is Im trying to compartmentalize the angles each side is coming from.

Edited April 25, 2014 by CrossCuT

[Maggyie]

Crosscut your point is taken, but at the same time the question is not whether persecution exists at the countrywide, group wide or de jure level but whether it exists at all. Simply because our laws are (mainly) just with regard to this issue does not mean people are just. And they become less just all the time.

It often the "personal" level persecution which eventually turns into harsher systemic persecution as many groups have experienced. The OP should use these examples, and in fact the Arizona law is a good example of that happening. Cardinal George famously said "I expect to die in bed, I expect my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr." He is not a stupid man! The persecution we experience now as individuals needs to be resisted and called out if we are to avoid catastrophe.

[Credo in Deum]

My science teacher said there is no persecution or discrimination against Christians in the USA. I argued with him and he told me to right a paper for him (for extra credit, I asked if he could make it that) by Monday. I thought I should post it in the Debate Table since I am sure there are going to be some debates. Thoughts, arguments people!

 

I think there is a discrimination against Christian ( especially Catholic) morals and ethics.  One can just turn on the TV or listen to the radio and you will be bombarded with content which is morally opposed to Christian values.   Also think about this.  In 1952 Archbishop Fulton J Sheen won an Emmy for Most Outstanding Television Personality. Do you think he would win it today?  Do you actually think they would even put him on the TV or radio nowadays?  I think not. 

Edited April 26, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I think there is a discrimination against Christian ( especially Catholic) morals and ethics.  One can just turn on the TV or listen to the radio and you will be bombarded with content which is morally opposed to Christian values.   Also think about this.  In 1952 Archbishop Fulton J Sheen won an Emmy for Most Outstanding Television Personality. Do you think he would win it today?  Do you actually think they would even put him on the TV or radio nowadays?  I think not. 

 

 

Watching t.v and movies is putting yourself in harms way deliberately. Living life isn't. You know exactly what your going to get when you switch on the t.v or watch a movie.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Credo in Deum]

Watching t.v and movies is putting yourself in harms way deliberately. Living life isn't. You know exactly what your going to get when you switch on the t.v or watch a movie.

 

I think you underestimate the influence these things have on the culture and how big of a role they play in the discrimination of Christians.  If there is a constant stream of this type of content being pumped into the populace, what do you think will happen?  It will make sin the norm and will cause the populace to embrace these things and reject the values it once had; mostly Christian ones.  Once the values are rejected, do you really think it will stop there?  No, they will want to get rid of the people who still follow these values, because such people will be a burden on their consciences.  

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

 

I think you underestimate the influence these things have on the culture and how big of a role they play in the discrimination of Christians.  If there is a constant stream of this type of content being pumped into the populace, what do you think will happen?  It will make sin the norm and will cause the populace to embrace these things and reject the values it once had; mostly Christian ones.  Once the values are rejected, do you really think it will stop there?  No, they will want to get rid of the people who still follow these values, because such people will be a burden on their consciences.  

 

 

I hear what your saying, so don't watch t.v and movies if you don't wan't to be persecuted, stand against it, be one whom is in the world but not of the world. And sin has always been an excepted part of the mainstream, part of the humans, there never was a eutopia, though there may have been in some minorities to varying degrees at different times, such as the holy roman catholic church. I doubt there ever was a more than 50% practising believers to the umth degree in any nation throught history, except perhaps modern day malta, therefore we are still a minority, and always have been, though we persist in faith hope and love for the love of GOD and the love of others in charity and good will. Though this is not hopeless, on our own strength it is actually hopeless, but with the grace of GOD it is not. Perhaps one day we will tip the scales in grace and have many nations that are more the 50% practising baptised believers.

 

All glory to GOD.

 

Onward christian souls.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Credo in Deum]

I hear what your saying, so don't watch t.v and movies if you don't wan't to be persecuted, stand against it, be one whom is in the world but not of the world. And sin has always been an excepted part of the mainstream, part of the humans, there never was no eutopia, though there may have been in some minorities to varying degrees at different times, such as the holy roman catholic church.  Though this is not hopeless, on our own strength it is actually hopeless, but with the grace of GOD it is not.

 

All glory to GOD.

 

Onward christian souls.

 

While not listening to the radio or watching the t.v will help you from being offended, it will not save you from being discriminated against.  Once again, the focus of the media is the turn the populace against Christian values, which will then result in the populace turning against those who still hold those Christian values.  You're only seeing one aspect and not the bigger picture.  Also no, it is a fallacy to say that sin was mainstream.  This has only been true in the US for probably 60-70 years or so.  Also I'm not saying we had a utopia.  What I am saying is sin was not mainstream and was not presented as "normal".  The things that are being shown in mainstream media today, used to be things you did in secret and talked about in secret. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Secret perhaps in the christian circles/ taboo. But also the media is not delibrately trying to turn people against christianity unless the theory is correct that the free masons hold a large chunk of popular media, lets say at least 40% including entertainment. It is entertainment and people outside of christianity have always been entertained by sin in the theatre, dating back eons, it eases there conscience.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Norseman82]

Back to the original question:  if you are looking for a recent example, look at Willock v. Elane Photography, the NM case in which the photographer refused to do a same-sex "wedding" or whatever the ceremony was called.  The NM Supreme Court ruling refused to recognize the photographer's

religious freedom argument, stating something to the effect that compromising one's actions against one's religious beliefs "is the price of citizenship". 

 

http://www.fed-soc.org/doclib/20140131_NewMexicoElanePhoto.pdf

 

Add to that how Catholic Charities in New York and California were forced to cover contraceptives back in the mid-2000s on the basis that they did not qualify as religious organizations, it makes you wonder if by the end of the decade the first amendment will be worth the paper it's written on.

[4588686]

lol.

Yes, you, a member of the cultural majority, are a victim of otherization.

the irony is so delicious I can barely stand it.

why do all the black kids sit together in the cafeteria CrossCuT?
Shame on them. They should stop "othering" the majority!

you can't know what its like to be a faithful Catholic today anymore than I can know what its like to be black.

I try not to share with black folk what I "know" about whether they have it hard.

Cuz self-awareness, and stuff.

Ummmmm....what? The cultural majority of this country is Christian. Now, that culture may not be fervent or orthodox enough to meet your standards but it is still Christian.

[4588686]

I wasn't accusing the homosexual minority of othering me.
If anything I could accuse the pro-gay marriage/lifestyle majority of othering me.
But in fact I was only calling attention to your ludicrous assertion (below) that I, a member of a cultural minority group, am somehow "othering" you.

Cuz somehow I "othered" you when I expressed irritation that you, a member of the majority, shamelessly tell minorities that their struggle is, in your words, "kind of annoying."

Is this the twilight zone or does kumbaya sauce have a nasty kick at the end. You tell me.

And this is the problem with critical theory. It basically has devolved into a methodology for people at highly elite institutions to discover the various ways that the system which they are highly immeshed in and will benefit from materially and socially actually gives them not only those advantages but also a lovely persecution complex. It's like when my friends who went to Wellesley and are being supported by their families as they complete their fourth unpaid internship while living in an expensive studio apartment in the heart of DC explain the various ways that they're oppressed.

The issue isn't that the examples that they cite are illegitimate. The issue is somebody whining about relatively minor instances of alienation they experience while simultaneously immeshing themselves to benefit immensely in economic and social prestige from the very system that made then feel marginally alienated.