Women/ordination

[CatherineM]

I've got as much right to complain as any woman. I sit next to seminarians in class. I will graduate along side them. They get the collar and I won't. Doesn't bother me.

It bothers me that I couldn't be a gymnast. I was too big to be one. Wasn't born to be a horse jockey either. If God had wanted me to be either, he'd have made me short with tiny feet, not these ungangly size 14's I stomp around in. If he'd wanted me to be an astronaut, I wouldn't have been born afraid of heights.

If he'd wanted me to be a priest, I'd have been born a male. Bottom line.

[CrossCuT]

I've got as much right to complain as any woman. I sit next to seminarians in class. I will graduate along side them. They get the collar and I won't. Doesn't bother me.

It bothers me that I couldn't be a gymnast. I was too big to be one. Wasn't born to be a horse jockey either. If God had wanted me to be either, he'd have made me short with tiny feet, not these ungangly size 14's I stomp around in. If he'd wanted me to be an astronaut, I wouldn't have been born afraid of heights.

If he'd wanted me to be a priest, I'd have been born a male. Bottom line.

Meh...bad example. The idea that a women cant be a priest is not dependent traits she can change...like cardio and muscular stuff. She is inherently unable to be a priest because she is a woman.

 

 

If someone tried to be a gymnast you can always succeed. Its not guaranteed that you could be the BEST gymnast in the world, but you could BE one.

[NotreDame]

Dont do that. Dont dehumanize people just because you dont agree with their lifestyle. 

Thats not very 'catholic' of you. 

 

Do you really want me replying to your posts again?  If not, then please go back to ignoring mine.

[CrossCuT]

Do you really want me replying to your posts again?  If not, then please go back to ignoring mine.

 

You can do whatever you want ND.

[NotreDame]

You can do whatever you want ND.

 

OK, let me say this another way... Can you please just ignore my posts and I promise to reciprocate?

[CrossCuT]

OK, let me say this another way... Can you please just ignore my posts and I promise to reciprocate?

 

nvm. Ill do my best.

Edited May 16, 2014 by CrossCuT

[Credo in Deum]

OK, let me say this another way... Can you please just ignore my posts and I promise to reciprocate?

 

Sounds like one of those Criagslist ads:

 

 

ND4CC

 

Looking to meet up today in a thread of your choice to post something, that I hope you will ignore. 

OK, let me say this another way... Can you please just ignore my posts and I promise to reciprocate?

 

Please do not call or text me. 

[Perigrina]

I've got as much right to complain as any woman. I sit next to seminarians in class. I will graduate along side them. They get the collar and I won't. Doesn't bother me.

 

Same here.  When I received my M.Div, I was the top student in my class.  So that means I had better marks than the seminarians with me.  I never thought that this meant I could or should be a priest. 

[Perigrina]

Speaking of homosexuality, which we were for some reason, has everyone watched the movie linked on the Phatmass FB page Apr 28: https://www.facebook.com/phatmass ?

Here's an alternate link for people who don't have FB (if there is such a thing): http://vimeo.com/93079367

 

It was very good.

[Credo in Deum]

 

Here's an alternate link for people who don't have FB (if there is such a thing): http://vimeo.com/93079367

 

It was very good.

 

Yes there is, and thank you for the link. 

[Perigrina]

Yes there is, and thank you for the link. 

 

I had read about the cool people not using FB any more, but now I have actually seen it. :eek:
 

[SNJM]

Thanks for all the input. I understand the desire to minister, and as women, we do! Petsonally, I agree with the quest for power as a motivator and I also agree that if we were to begin ordaining Deaconnesses, it would be a step towards the priesthood for women. I think we need the balance (or for a better image: the duality) of the masculine and feminine in our spiritual lives. The Church has written about this over and over again (various Saints, Popes and respected theologians) and I believe this balance is critical to the experience of our active faith life. Not everything needs to be explained to our personal satisfaction. I sometimes feel like I'm in the midst of a culture of spoiled brats who DEMAND whatever it is they want & when they don't get it, they bother with questions until they find someone who will give them the answer they want. I'm at a loss in witnessing the disrespect and ability to ignore authority. And yes, I wrote the letter. Thanks, all. Rose

[Perigrina]

Good for you for writing the letter, Rose.

[Basilisa Marie]

Deaconesses were never ordained, historically. There's no evidence that there was in fact a "laying on of hands" which would note ordination, but there were rites and special ceremonies to appoint the women to the order of deaconesses. Just a fun historical fact for people, so there's no confusion. :) 

[PhuturePriest]

Deaconesses were never ordained, historically. There's no evidence that there was in fact a "laying on of hands" which would note ordination, but there were rites and special ceremonies to appoint the women to the order of deaconesses. Just a fun historical fact for people, so there's no confusion. :)

 

I know deaconesses weren't ordained, but as far as I am aware, they were the wives of deacons. My only concern would be that their name would cause confusion among the faithful (not to mention the rest of the world). If we were to bring it back, we should give it a different name that has a less clergy-like name to it so as to avoid confusion.

[Perigrina]

I know deaconesses weren't ordained, but as far as I am aware, they were the wives of deacons. My only concern would be that their name would cause confusion among the faithful (not to mention the rest of the world). If we were to bring it back, we should give it a different name that has a less clergy-like name to it so as to avoid confusion.

 

The word "deacon" comes from a Greek word that means servant.  Deacons are servants of the Church.  When given a feminine ending, the word can mean the wife of a deacon or a female servant of the Church.  It has never meant a woman who was ordained.  In the sense of female servant, there were deaconesses in the early Church who assisted at the baptism of women.  At the time, baptism was most often performed on adults and they were naked for the rite.  Therefore it was seemly that women baptize women.

[PhuturePriest]

The word "deacon" comes from a Greek word that means servant.  Deacons are servants of the Church.  When given a feminine ending, the word can mean the wife of a deacon or a female servant of the Church.  It has never meant a woman who was ordained.  In the sense of female servant, there were deaconesses in the early Church who assisted at the baptism of women.  At the time, baptism was most often performed on adults and they were naked for the rite.  Therefore it was seemly that women baptize women.

 

I'm aware of the roles deaconesses had. This doesn't change the fact that it would confuse the faithful to have a name like that, and if we were to bring it back we should give it a more innocuous name.

[Perigrina]

I'm aware of the roles deaconesses had. This doesn't change the fact that it would confuse the faithful to have a name like that, and if we were to bring it back we should give it a more innocuous name.

 

I do not think that there is really any question of "bringing back" deaconesses.  There already are many roles of service for women in the Church, although running women's baptisms is no longer a need.   Usually when one encounters people who are promoting deaconesses, they want to create a new role that is a female form of deacons, including ordination.
 

I agree with you that even a title of deaconess that did not include ordination would be problematic due to the confusion it would cause.

[Credo in Deum]

Thanks for all the input. I understand the desire to minister, and as women, we do! Petsonally, I agree with the quest for power as a motivator and I also agree that if we were to begin ordaining Deaconnesses, it would be a step towards the priesthood for women. I think we need the balance (or for a better image: the duality) of the masculine and feminine in our spiritual lives. The Church has written about this over and over again (various Saints, Popes and respected theologians) and I believe this balance is critical to the experience of our active faith life. Not everything needs to be explained to our personal satisfaction. I sometimes feel like I'm in the midst of a culture of spoiled brats who DEMAND whatever it is they want & when they don't get it, they bother with questions until they find someone who will give them the answer they want. I'm at a loss in witnessing the disrespect and ability to ignore authority. And yes, I wrote the letter. Thanks, all. Rose

Great job on writing the letter. By doing so you're not only being a witness for Christ, but also a protector of the Church and her Sacraments.

I think the majority of people forget that the priesthood is a calling which is given by God, not man. Being a man does not mean we have some automatic right to the priesthood. If we're not called then we cannot be priests. Without a genuine calling one can never be a priest, and so even if the Church didn't have a gender requirement, the women would still not be priests. A genuine calling cannot be forced, and so God will not call those He never willed to be priests. It is this blatant misunderstanding of how one becomes a priest, is what automatically disqualifies them. They think men make the decision and so they think of the priesthood as a worldly honor and not the Divine Sacrament it truly is. The priesthood they want to be a part of is not the same priesthood Christ instituted. Furthermore, if Christ wanted women priests He would have picked His Blessed Mother to be the first one to hold His True Presence in the Eucharist. She after all is the only one who is worthy of such an honor. This is why all good priests take her as their protector, since she helps them live in a worthy manner, so they can to do the job they're not worthy of.

[Selah]

Semi-off topic, but It kind of reminds me of women wanting access to Mt. Athos. Why, there's literally nothing there except cats, coffee and monks. What could you possibly want? Do you think they're hiding magic jellybeans up there or something? I mean, yes, I know the whole curiosity thing, but goodness. 

 

 

/endrant

Edited May 17, 2014 by Selah