Pope Kisses The Hand Of, Concelebrates Mass With Pro-homosexual Activi

[Perigrina]

What are you afraid of happening? The pope will join the sinful movement to destroy the church?

 

I am afraid it will be less clear that it is a sinful movement that wants to destroy the Church.  We may have to love our enemies but it is still a good idea to know who they are.

[CrossCuT]

I dont see anyone as an enemy. I guess thats where we differ. 

[Perigrina]

I dont see anyone as an enemy. I guess thats where we differ. 

 

People who think that the Catholic Church is an evil entity that must be destroyed are our enemies.  We should love and pray for them, but it is foolish to ignore them.

[arfink]

One the one hand, I can see that many are scandalized by the pope.

 

But on the other hand, we live in a world that is utterly incapable of understanding Church teaching because it has lost the understanding of reason that forms the basis for Catholic thought on sexuality (and pretty much everything else). This kind of thing may be one of the only avenues we have left into the hearts and minds of a world that has rejected teleology, and has rejected its own nature.

[Perigrina]

One the one hand, I can see that many are scandalized by the pope.

 

But on the other hand, we live in a world that is utterly incapable of understanding Church teaching because it has lost the understanding of reason that forms the basis for Catholic thought on sexuality (and pretty much everything else). This kind of thing may be one of the only avenues we have left into the hearts and minds of a world that has rejected teleology, and has rejected its own nature.

 

Yes.  My personal preference is precise theological statements.  However, for some strange reason, nobody has chosen me to be pope.  The person who was chosen apparently is trying to work the media circus.  I am uneasy about it.  He looks like he is riding a tiger.  But maybe, just maybe, that is the best way to deal with our situation.

[arfink]

Yes.  My personal preference is precise theological statements.  However, for some strange reason, nobody has chosen me to be pope.  The person who was chosen apparently is trying to work the media circus.  I am uneasy about it.  He looks like he is riding a tiger.  But maybe, just maybe, that is the best way to deal with our situation.

 

It would be wonderful if we could somehow teach the world how to reject the notion that things do not have an intrinsic reality outside of our own perception of them, but I don't know how we're going to do that if they refuse to trust us.
 

[Seven77]

What if  the Pope heard the priest's confession after he kissed his hand and before he concelebrated Mass with him. And does anyone find it odd that the only place on the Internet where the story is documented is life site news?

[Credo in Deum]

What if  the Pope heard the priest's confession after he kissed his hand and before he concelebrated Mass with him. And does anyone find it odd that the only place on the Internet where the story is documented is life site news?

 

In order to receive absolution we need to have the resolution to amend our life.  If the priest went to confession without this resolution, then he did not receive absolution or if he said he would amend his life but in his heart refused to amend his life, then the absolution given him would be ineffective.  From what it sounds like, this priest is not going to turn away from his ways any time soon.  We should start a novena for his conversion of heart.

[Nihil Obstat]

What if  the Pope heard the priest's confession after he kissed his hand and before he concelebrated Mass with him. And does anyone find it odd that the only place on the Internet where the story is documented is life site news?

Then that priest would be in a state of grace. But serious public sins, like promoting vile heresy or leading groups directly opposed to Church teaching, tend to require public repentance in order to begin to counteract the serious damage against the people of the Church.

[Basilisa Marie]

Donatism: A heresy that, among other things, believed that the validity of a mass was somehow tied to the personal holiness of the priest celebrating it. 

 

Concelebrating mass with a priest known for activism for things in conflict with Church teaching isn't the safest thing to do. But the priest isn't excommunicated. The priest hasn't lost his faculties.  The priest is still a priest.  So what's left? Some very easy to fall into Donatist tendencies? I'm going to trust the pope's judgment on this one. The Holy Spirit obviously chose this man for a reason. I'm not going to presume to know what that reason is. 

[Basilisa Marie]

Pope Francis seems to like to do a lot of things that a "regular" bishop or priest really couldn't.  I wonder if that's why he does them? 

[Selah]

Wow. Came in here expecting a cat fight, but instead got a civil discussion. Awesome.

 

Also, didn't know that about the Donatist heresy.

[KnightofChrist]

Perhaps next Pope Francis can show the same kind of mercy and kiss the hand of and offer Mass with Bishop Fellay, or any other traditional 'bad boy'. 

[Credo in Deum]

I'm sure he would if they would put their hand in front of him. ;)

[KnightofChrist]

I'm sure he would if they would put their hand in front of him. ;)

 

Honestly, I have my doubts. 

[Basilisa Marie]

Wow. Came in here expecting a cat fight, but instead got a civil discussion. amesome.

 

Also, didn't know that about the Donatist heresy.

 

The whole Donatist controversy is really interesting (and really sad). 

 

During the early persecutions, loads of Christians were told to either give up their holy books to be burned or throw some incense on the altar of a pagan god or they (or their children) would be killed. Some Christians chose to be killed (or have their families killed) rather than give up the faith. Others gave up the holy objects, or threw some incense on the fire, because heck no were they or their kids going to die. After the persecutions subsided, naturally the Christians that handed over the stuff wanted back in. The ones who had lost family and friends didn't like that idea, and called the ones who gave into the persecutors "traditores," which is the source for the modern words "traitor" and "treason." 

So the bishops had to figure out what to do. Some areas made the "traditores" perform long, rigorous penances, others let them back in with a metaphorical slap on the wrist. Some people really didn't like that. They believed the "real" Church should be made up of "saints" who had or were willing to make the sacrifices for the faith. They decided that baptisms done by priests who were "traditores" were invalid. In about 311, the new bishop of Carthage was consecrated by this guy Felix, who was rumored to be a traitor (there's no evidence Felix actually was). They really didn't like that, so they elected their own bishop instead, named Donatus. Hence, his followers were called "Donatists." Two years later the pope got together a group to fight Donatism, they decided that a priest's personal holiness didn't have anything to do with whether or not the sacraments he conferred were valid, but the general idea that certain people were the "real" Christians who made "real" sacrifices had "real" sacraments survived a long time. The whole "I'm more Catholic than you" thing has been around for a really, really long time. 

But it all came up because people were grieving and trying to pick up the pieces after some terrible persecutions, and shows us a lot of very human responses to tragedy. 

[Perigrina]

Perhaps next Pope Francis can show the same kind of mercy and kiss the hand of and offer Mass with Bishop Fellay, or any other traditional 'bad boy'. 

 

Apparently, there was some sort of informal meeting between Pope Francis and Bishop Fellay (they basically just greeted each other) and the SSPX had to issue a statement to reassure its associates.  The way a lot of trads were discussing the incident, they would not want the kiss on the hand.  And the traditional Mass cannot be concelebrated and they would have numerous fits if Bishop Fellay celebrated a Novus Ordo, even with the Pope. 

 

There is a lot of negativity and suspicion toward Pope Francis in trad circles.  It is not that I am a big fan of the pope myself, but I am loyal to the man who holds the office.

[Basilisa Marie]

Honestly, I have my doubts. 

 

Really? I have more doubts that they would offer the hand, so to speak. Haven't they been the ones refusing to compromise, at all, when Benedict was Pope? I don't remember ever hearing that they were willing to budge on anything, even symbolic gestures. 

 

Edit: Well, even Bishop Fellay just meeting with the pope informally is a good thing. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Basilisa Marie

[mortify ii]

Sorry but told ya so...

Time to stop with the excuses and start supporting the restoration of our Church.

[Basilisa Marie]

Sorry but told ya so...

Time to stop with the excuses and start supporting the restoration of our Church.

 

:| Seriously? 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Basilisa Marie