Mass Should Be Reformed For The Modern Era

[polskieserce]

Whenever you walk into a Catholic Church for mass, the procedure is pretty similar: a few hymns are sung, there is a reading from the Gospel, people shake hands with one another, and they receive Holy Communion.  A lot of young people nowadays don't go to mass because they complain that it's boring and not relevant to their lives.  Honestly, I think the solution is that the Catholic Mass needs to be reformed for the modern era.  Instead of a systematic ritual, it needs to be much more interactive and should be more geared towards helping the parishioners present at the mass solve problems in their lives, have broader discussions about the challenges they face in the community and form social relations to help prop each other up.  Have there ever been talks of any such reforms within the church?

[truthfinder]

That sounds rather Protestant-y.   :popcorn2:

[Dr_Asik]

I think that keeping Mass in its current form doesn't prevent Catholics from having the type of meeting you describe; I have a hard time seeing, however, how this type of meeting could replace Mass. The point of Mass is to celebrate the sacrament of the Eucharist.

[Deus te Amat]

3. People are less traditional/religious than before - People don't follow the old-school traditions/religious teachings like they did in previous decades.  People are more individualistic and more open to other practices that their grandparents would never have even considered.  People want to enjoy life after going through years of school before getting tied down with responsibilities once again.

 

 

:popcorn:

[polskieserce]

I think that keeping Mass in its current form doesn't prevent Catholics from having the type of meeting you describe; I have a hard time seeing, however, how this type of meeting could replace Mass. The point of Mass is to celebrate the sacrament of the Eucharist.

 

I agree that the point of the mass is to have communion.  But how would you do the other things I mentioned in a 1 hr period without cutting other stuff out?

 

:popcorn:

 

What are you trying to suggest?

[truthfinder]

I agree that the point of the mass is to have communion.  But how would you do the other things I mentioned in a 1 hr period without cutting other stuff out?

 

 

What are you trying to suggest?

 

Debating with myself if I should venture into this or just go and have a drink instead....

 

Why does Mass have to be 1 hr?

The point of the Mass is not to have communion - although it is a rather integral part - it was not always this way.

Quote: 361. What are the purposes for which the Mass is offered?

The purposes for which the Mass is offered are: first, to adore God as our Creator and Lord; second, to thank God for His many favors; third, to ask God to bestow His blessings on all men; fourth, to satisfy the justice of God for the sins committed against Him.

(a) In every Mass adoration, praise, and thanksgiving are given to God, and reparation is made to Him.

(b) Besides the purpose for which the Mass is offered and the effects that it produces, there are also special fruits of the Mass. The fruits Of the Mass are the blessings that God bestows through the Mass upon the celebrant, upon those who serve or assist at it, upon the person or persons for whom it is offered, and also upon all mankind, especially the members of the Church and the souls in purgatory.

(c) The measure of these blessings depends especially on the dispositions of those to whom they are given. (https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/euchb1a.htm)

[Credo in Deum]

Whenever you walk into a Catholic Church for mass, the procedure is pretty similar: a few hymns are sung, there is a reading from the Gospel, people shake hands with one another, and they receive Holy Communion.  A lot of young people nowadays don't go to mass because they complain that it's boring and not relevant to their lives.  Honestly, I think the solution is that the Catholic Mass needs to be reformed for the modern era.  Instead of a systematic ritual, it needs to be much more interactive and should be more geared towards helping the parishioners present at the mass solve problems in their lives, have broader discussions about the challenges they face in the community and form social relations to help prop each other up.  Have there ever been talks of any such reforms within the church?

 

I say the opposite is in order.  People need to have less customization and more ritual.  This is one reason for why I love the Extraordinary Form Mass.  The rubrics and rituals remind me of Exodus when God told Moses how he wanted to be worshiped.  The specific things God asked for, even down to the vestments, were all signs that God is personal and that as a personal being He has a personal taste and way he would like to be worshiped.  We've lost the spirit of caring about how God wants to be worshiped.  Instead we are too concerned with how we want to worship God.

[Perigrina]

We have not recovered from the last time that people attempted to reform the Mass for the modern era.  There were a lot of problems and a lot of people lost their faith.  That is what I would expect if we tried it again.

[Deus te Amat]

Mass is the lynchpin of the Catholic faith. It is the foundation -- the center point without which we cannot truly live a Christian life (without supernatural grace given in another way). It is the holiest thing we have on earth.

 

Why?

 

The Mass is not about what we do. It is not about the hymns or the homily or the shaking hands or about "solving our problems". It is what Christ does for us. It is called "the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass" for a reason -- because in it, with the opening prayer, we are flung out of time and space, to join in the original Sacrifice on Calvary. Each celebration of the Eucharist is united with the original Last Supper. Each altar is another Crucifixion, another giving of the Body and Blood of Christ for the salvation of the world.

 

In the Mass, Christ is truly present to His flock. You want to talk about Mass solving people's problems? He is already there, ready and waiting to do so. The reform shouldn't be of the Mass itself -- it needs to be of the hearts of the people there. The real problem is that people are not open to God -- they think "me me me, what can God give to me?". Sit, really sit with the Lord, and realize what He has already done if you just open the door.

 

 

[Nihil Obstat]

Maybe we should push for a wider and more universal use of the traditional form of the Mass. :proud: What a reform that would be.

[chrysostom]

it needs to be much more interactive and should be more geared towards helping the parishioners present at the mass solve problems in their lives

 

When I hear Mass, the last thing I need is for me, myself, and I to obscure the Holy Sacrifice of Calvary that I am witnessing in the sacramental mystery.

 

These are the four ends of the Mass:

 

1. Adoration – through the Mass, we give God solemn worship, praise and honor.
2. Thanksgiving – through the Mass, we thank God for all He has bestowed.
3. Propitiation – through the Mass (the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Christ upon Calvary), God’s justice for the sins of mankind is satisfied.
4. Petition – through the Mass, we present God with our needs and ask for graces.

 

Every other purpose in Mass derives from these.  To solve the problems in my life?  For that, I need the graces received by devout assistance at Mass.

[Deus te Amat]

I say the opposite is in order.  People need to have less customization and more ritual.  This is one reason for why I love the Extraordinary Form Mass.  The rubrics and rituals remind me of Exodus when God told Moses how he wanted to be worshiped.  The specific things God asked for, even down to the vestments, were all signs that God is personal and that as a personal being He has a personal taste and way he would like to be worshiped.  We've lost the spirit of caring about how God wants to be worshiped.  Instead we are too concerned with how we want to worship God.

 

 

We have not recovered from the last time that people attempted to reform the Mass for the modern era.  There were a lot of problems and a lot of people lost their faith.  That is what I would expect if we tried it again.

 

 

Maybe we should push for a wider and more universal use of the traditional form of the Mass. :proud: What a reform that would be.

 

 

Please, let's not make this a debate about extra-ordinary vs. ordinary form. I'm afraid that doing so will just push Polskie further away. Both are valid forms, Christ is present and working in both. Leave it at that -- please!

[Perigrina]

Maybe we should push for a wider and more universal use of the traditional form of the Mass. :proud: What a reform that would be.

 

I would like that.  However, apparently a lot of people have a problem with it being in Latin.

[Nihil Obstat]

But to be serious for a moment...

 

What a vile idea, that we need to change the Mass to fit our preferences. The Mass. My God. The Church gives us the Mass, Christ gave us the Mass. The Mass is the single most noble, beautiful, sacred act we can ever participate in short of the beatific vision. And we want to change it to make it relevant? I find that abhorrent. We change ourselves for God and for the Mass. We do not whine to God that His rules are too hard and expect Him to change for us. Nor should we complain about the Mass and demand that it changes to match our whims.

[Nihil Obstat]

Please, let's not make this a debate about extra-ordinary vs. ordinary form. I'm afraid that doing so will just push Polskie further away. Both are valid forms, Christ is present and working in both. Leave it at that -- please!

I stand by what I said.

[Deus te Amat]

I stand by what I said.

 

And it may be true, but it didn't address the immediate topic. Now, your second post I heartily approve of.  :like2:

[Perigrina]

Please, let's not make this a debate about extra-ordinary vs. ordinary form. I'm afraid that doing so will just push Polskie further away. Both are valid forms, Christ is present and working in both. Leave it at that -- please!

 

I am not questioning that the Ordinary Form is valid.  From what I've heard, there were many places where it was not introduced in a pastorally sensitive way.  It was also accompanied by unnecessary optional practices that further alienated people. For example, there was never a directive or instruction telling us to tear out the altars and replace them with free standing ones.  People saw churches - often churches built with their donations- being defaced in the name of reform for the modern era.  This was very upsetting for many people.

[Nihil Obstat]

[10.] The Church herself has no power over those things which were established by Christ himself and which constitute an unchangeable part of the Liturgy.[23] Indeed, if the bond were to be broken which the Sacraments have with Christ himself who instituted them, and with the events of the Church’s founding,[24] it would not be beneficial to the faithful but rather would do them grave harm. For the Sacred Liturgy is quite intimately connected with principles of doctrine,[25] so that the use of unapproved texts and rites necessarily leads either to the attenuation or to the disappearance of that necessary link between the lex orandi and the lex credendi.[26]

[11.] The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured”.[27] On the contrary, anyone who acts thus by giving free reign to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved,[28] and becomes responsible for actions that are in no way consistent with the hunger and thirst for the living God that is experienced by the people today. Nor do such actions serve authentic pastoral care or proper liturgical renewal; instead, they deprive Christ’s faithful of their patrimony and their heritage. For arbitrary actions are not conducive to true renewal,[29] but are detrimental to the right of Christ’s faithful to a liturgical celebration that is an expression of the Church’s life in accordance with her tradition and discipline. In the end, they introduce elements of distortion and disharmony into the very celebration of the Eucharist, which is oriented in its own lofty way and by its very nature to signifying and wondrously bringing about the communion of divine life and the unity of the People of God.[30] The result is uncertainty in matters of doctrine, perplexity and scandal on the part of the People of God, and, almost as a necessary consequence, vigorous opposition, all of which greatly confuse and sadden many of Christ’s faithful in this age of ours when Christian life is often particularly difficult on account of the inroads of “secularization” as well.[31]

 

Redemptionis Sacramentum

[Deus te Amat]

I am not questioning that the Ordinary Form is valid.  From what I've heard, there were many places where it was not introduced in a pastorally sensitive way.  It was also accompanied by unnecessary optional practices that further alienated people. For example, there was never a directive or instruction telling us to tear out the altars and replace them with free standing ones.  People saw churches - often churches built with their donations- being defaced in the name of reform for the modern era.  This was very upsetting for many people.

 

You are very much right -- I am sorry, this is just such an important topic that I did not want to let it get derailed with a extraordinary vs ordinary form debate, but I have already contributed to it.

 

It IS important to note how much dissension was caused with the last attempt to update the Mass to the modern era. I apologize.

[Dr_Asik]

I agree that the point of the mass is to have communion.  But how would you do the other things I mentioned in a 1 hr period without cutting other stuff out?

I think you have a great idea and that Christians should definitely meet regularly to discuss their religious life and issues together. I just don't think that Mass is the correct context for that kind of social activity. Mass is absolutely a ritual, it's a ritual of worship and celebration of the Eucharist, and it's very important that it retains this character. As others have pointed out, whenever the form of Mass is altered, it loses some of its meaning, because as a ritual, Mass is not so much ours but God's. People go there for the contact with the Sacred.

 

Why are young people not interested in Mass? Because they have deficient religious education and don't understand the value of having this ritual; they don't see its deep historical and spiritual meaning. I agree that it's difficult to get young people to enjoy and appreciate Mass, because that requires some maturity and education; I think for young people, social gatherings like what you mention are a vital part of religious formation, and I think that a Christian community that only has Mass as a communal activity is pretty anemic.

 

So, definitely in favor of social meetings for discussion and exchange on spiritual life and religious issues, but you don't need to reform Mass to have that. ;)

 

By the way, when I was a kid, at my parish during Mass, the children would gather in the basement of the church and there was some teaching and fun activities. Then after the homily, we would go back to our seats with our parents. That way, we skipped the long part of the Mass we couldn't understand anyway, got a lot more education out of it, and still attended the Eucharist. I think that was great.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Dr_Asik