Mass Should Be Reformed For The Modern Era

[chrysostom]

Redemptionis Sacramentum

 

Promulgated in 2004, baby.  :cool:

[Perigrina]

You are very much right -- I am sorry, this is just such an important topic that I did not want to let it get derailed with a extraordinary vs ordinary form debate, but I have already contributed to it.

 

It IS important to note how much dissension was caused with the last attempt to update the Mass to the modern era. I apologize.

 

I accept your apology.  Thank you for your courtesy. 

[polskieserce]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

[Perigrina]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

 

I would not come to a service like that.  It sounds like an encounter group, not a Mass.

[Deus te Amat]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

 

WWJD.

[PhuturePriest]

The Mass is structured off Revelations. It is the meeting place between heaven and earth. It has nothing to do with us, and everything to do with the Sacrifice. Stop making it about us. It has nothing to do with us. The only part of it that involves us is how we should be weeping at the mere thought that we're invited to the greatest thing in the history of the earth.

[Dr_Asik]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

A couple of thoughts in no particular order:

 

- The lectures are pretty short as it is. Even if you remove all of them except for the Gospel, you're only freeing perhaps 10-15 minutes.

- What you're suggesting seems to shift the focus of the Mass from God (in his Revelation) to the community and the priest.

- "The priest offering guidance to the people and backing up his statements using gospel teachings" sounds a lot like what a homily usually is. A careful priest will preach in a way that illuminates a particular problem or dilemma that his community is having.

 

I really don't mean to be negative towards your idea though, as I can see where you're coming from. As I said, I think there's a profound meaning in Mass as a fixed, historical ritual that is lost when you start adapting it in various ways, and what you're proposing just doesn't fit the general purpose and character of the Mass and this is why this idea couldn't be accepted. But feel free to discuss this with your local priest, perhaps he'll come up with a good alternative. I think he should be delighted that members of the community are interested in more engaging forms of communal activity.

 

[Fidei Defensor]

I highly recommend anyone and everyone should read "The Lamb's Supper" by Scott Hahn.

[Nihil Obstat]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

So Jerry Springer Catholic edition?

[polskieserce]

So Jerry Springer Catholic edition?

 

LOL :hehe2:  Not exactly what I had in mind, since there would be nobody arguing with the speaker, but I can only imagine how funny a SNL skit would be about this.

[Credo in Deum]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

 

There are 168 hours in a week.  God asks you to be present at the minimum 1 hour to pray the Mass. To give your devotion to Him.   Yet that's not enough.  We should cut this prayer time even shorter by filling it with group share time?

 

The fact that you can look at the Ordinary Form and think "more could be done away with" just completely boggles my mind.   Why even bother with communion if we do what you propose?  Surely at that point we would have gone completely from Christ centered worship to community centered worship.  At such a state we would surly have problems no sermon could ever fix. 

Edited June 1, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[HisChildForever]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

 

With the exception of Palm Sunday and Good Friday, the readings are not what I would call long! Anyway, Scripture cannot be cut out of the Mass. That's ludicrous. 

 

And I don't go to Mass to hear other people's problems. That's actually my profession. But be that as it may, this is dangerous because it can foster gossip. And who would be comfortable sharing what I assume to be a personal problem in front of a group of mostly strangers? Anyone with a moral problem or life problem can either make an appointment with their priest or seek counseling elsewhere.

[Lilllabettt]

yes, lets make Mass more social and full of interpersonal sharing. please!!!!

the modern world in its entirety is set up to serve the needs and wants of extroverts.

can't we let the introverts have something.

good grief. 

[PhuturePriest]

yes, lets make Mass more social and full of interpersonal sharing. please!!!!

the modern world in its entirety is set up to serve the needs and wants of extroverts.

can't we let the introverts have something.

good grief. 

 

This isn't even an extrovert vs. introvert thing, this is a "Dear Lord, this is the Sacrifice of the Mass, not a social gathering!" thing.

[PhuturePriest]

I do appreciate the goal, which is to get more people to Mass. It is noble and admirable. But the way you're proposing it is just catastrophically wrong and undermines the Mass itself. It's not something that can be changed. You can change the language, but you cannot change the Mass. It's not up to us, it's simply set in stone.

[HisChildForever]

I do appreciate the goal, which is to get more people to Mass. It is noble and admirable. But the way you're proposing it is just catastrophically wrong and undermines the Mass itself. It's not something that can be changed. You can change the language, but you cannot change the Mass. It's not up to us, it's simply set in stone.

 

Right. There are a number of great ways we can draw people to Mass without destroying the Mass...

 

1. Better catechism classes so when children become older, marry, and become parents, they can impart the fruits of their knowledge and faith to their children and thus their children will want to attend. We'll start to see young people high school age to twenties/thirties at Mass again.

2. Living out our faith, making others curious as to where we receive our hope.

3. Homilies that are more theologically rich. Not every parish has this.

4. More traditional or sacred hymns as opposed to the same recycled hymns and songs (I'm talking during the procession in/out, collection, and communion time).

 

Like St. JPII, I think Papa Francis is piquing people's interest in Catholicism. Always a plus!

[ithinkjesusiscool]

Whenever you walk into a Catholic Church for mass, the procedure is pretty similar: a few hymns are sung, there is a reading from the Gospel, people shake hands with one another, and they receive Holy Communion.  A lot of young people nowadays don't go to mass because they complain that it's boring and not relevant to their lives.  Honestly, I think the solution is that the Catholic Mass needs to be reformed for the modern era.  Instead of a systematic ritual, it needs to be much more interactive and should be more geared towards helping the parishioners present at the mass solve problems in their lives, have broader discussions about the challenges they face in the community and form social relations to help prop each other up.  Have there ever been talks of any such reforms within the church?

Do you want my opinion: celebrate Mass in a more traditional! Having people who don't want to attend Mass is no reason for celebrating Mass in a stupid way. It just calls for more traditional ways.

You can't just pick up the acoustic guitar and...that's no the way.

 

That sounds rather Protestant-y.   :popcorn2:

In fact, it does sound Protestant.

 

We have not recovered from the last time that people attempted to reform the Mass for the modern era.  There were a lot of problems and a lot of people lost their faith.  That is what I would expect if we tried it again.

Nowadays there seem to be a lot of confusion about the definition of Mass. Some people just forget the crucifixion and only talk about a meal.

[ithinkjesusiscool]

I do appreciate the goal, which is to get more people to Mass. It is noble and admirable. But the way you're proposing it is just catastrophically wrong and undermines the Mass itself. It's not something that can be changed. You can change the language, but you cannot change the Mass. It's not up to us, it's simply set in stone.

[Benedictus]

People can do social things, or join various Catholic societies, action groups or support groups at church as an aside from Mass. Many churches do this already: faith sharing, Fellowship, Bible study, home groups, coffee mornings, Legion of Mary, Youth groups etc. They can also set up whatever group thing they like anytime of the week for likeminded people!  it's a bit silly to think this needs to be fused, or repalce, the worship time. The church isn't a social service action centre or therapy group -  it's primarily a church set aside for God.

[Norseman82]

Maybe we should push for a wider and more universal use of the traditional form of the Mass. :proud: What a reform that would be.

 

Wasn't there a rumor floating around that Pope Emeritus Benedict's ultimate goal was to make the Ordinary form consistent with the Extraordinary form - maybe making it an EF in the vernacular, like one step in the transition from the 1962 missal to the 1970 missal (I believe that step was in 1967)?