beatitude Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Ms. Slippers has apparently left, so responding to her in love, or any other way, is not really an option. I replied to her "everybody is so mean to me" posts because I don't want anybody here kicking themselves for mistreating this poor innocent waif. Ms. Slippers wrote one offensive post after another and we don't need to beat ourselves up if we got upset. We might not have risen to the ideal of turning the other cheek, but it's a hard ideal to meet and we can try again next time. You may well have a chance to try again next time, with a different person - but next time might be too late for someone who has been hurt by harsh words. Remember what the Prophet Isaiah says: "A bruised reed I will not break." People who have been hurt in the past don't always act like the kindest and most cheerful of people - I had a personal example of this with a man I thought to be so unspeakably offensive as to be not worth bothering about, but who turned out to be severely traumatised (in the actual psychomedical sense) and suffering terribly from his past. You don't know what someone's history might be and it is always best to courteous and kind-hearted yourself. Even if they have no excuse for being rude or insulting to us, they are still very beloved by God and our words should reflect that. It is no use in knowing all the doctrine if it doesn't make us kind. St Paul made that pretty clear. Edited June 25, 2014 by beatitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The response to fs really upsets me. Whether she was rude or not isn't the point. As Christians we are called to a higher standard. Jesus told us this, and left no strings attached. We are called to put to death the old self. Even in heated debates, we are told to be as wise as sepents but as gentle as doves. We don't know, but maybe fs was seeking answers inside the Church, and this thread turned her off for good. You can say "oh it's the internets" all you want, but it's still human interaction, and we often forget that there is another human being on the other side of that screen, who may very well be hurting or in pain, and lashed out in their frustration in anger. I'm sorry to say this, but I am rather disappointed in some of you right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 My Mom called herself a Catholic. She attended mass. Believed in every line of the catechism. Sent her kids to Catholic school, said the rosary, even veiled. She even handled the funeral dinners for the parish for 35 years. The one thing she didn't do was receive communion. That's because she was never baptized in the Church. She went through instruction twice, but my Fad was too stubborn or too cheap to go through the annulment process for his first marriage. Was she Catholic? No, but I never told her she shouldn't call herself one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 You may well have a chance to try again next time, with a different person - but next time might be too late for someone who has been hurt by harsh words. Remember what the Prophet Isaiah says: "A bruised reed I will not break." People who have been hurt in the past don't always act like the kindest and most cheerful of people - I had a personal example of this with a man I thought to be so unspeakably offensive as to be not worth bothering about, but who turned out to be severely traumatised (in the actual psychomedical sense) and suffering terribly from his past. You don't know what someone's history might be and it is always best to courteous and kind-hearted yourself. Even if they have no excuse for being rude or insulting to us, they are still very beloved by God and our words should reflect that. It is no use in knowing all the doctrine if it doesn't make us kind. St Paul made that pretty clear. Yes, we should be courteous and kind no matter how other people behave. But we should not beat ourselves up for having normal human reactions to rude and insulting people. We can not go back in time. All we can do is say "I fell short of the ideal. I will try harder next time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Since I've been here I have not seen one Orthodox minded poster be consistently mean or uncharitable. There as been the occasional heated remark here and there, but nothing huge. There have been times of compassion and correction, which imitates Christ who neither condemned Magdalene nor tolerated sellers in the the Temple. I think the victim card had been played by some without warrant and as a tool to be indifferent toward heretical thinking. I personally think this is BS. Edited June 25, 2014 by Credo in Deum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Since I've been here I have not seen one Orthodox minded poster be consistently mean or uncharitable. There as been the occasional heated remark here and there, but nothing huge. There have been times of compassion and correction, which imitates Christ who neither condemned Magdalene nor tolerated sellers in the the Temple. I think the victim card had been played by some without warrant and as a tool to be indifferent toward heretical thinking. I personally think this is BS. All I am saying is, we do not know her story, or why she reacted the way she did...at least, I don't, reading through her posts. Sometimes people are very defensive, and need to be treated with gentleness. It's hard to know why, especially over the internet because it's so impersonal. Sometimes people just need to be loved and prayed for. Even when they shout and say offensive things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Yes, we should be courteous and kind no matter how other people behave. But we should not beat ourselves up for having normal human reactions to rude and insulting people. We can not go back in time. All we can do is say "I fell short of the ideal. I will try harder next time." [emphasis mine] I don't think it's necessary to 'beat ourselves up" but perhaps we can try to control our 'normal human reactions' if at all possible, especially if they are likely to lead us into being less than courteous or kind. After all, it is Jesus Himself who asks us to do this - or at least to try. And the mea culpa at the end of your post is certainly a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 All I am saying is, we do not know her story, or why she reacted the way she did...at least, I don't, reading through her posts. Sometimes people are very defensive, and need to be treated with gentleness. It's hard to know why, especially over the internet because it's so impersonal. Sometimes people just need to be loved and prayed for. Even when they shout and say offensive things. I wasn't speaking about anyone specific in this thread. Just the behavior I've noticed on this site in general. With orthodoxy, charity and humility, phatmass will infiltrate the entire planet earth with Catholic propaganda. The “phat†in phatmass stands for “Preaching Holy Apostolic Truth†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 To be fair (IMHO), it is impossible to express constructive criticism without causing offense on the interwebs. I've heard it said that there's no such thing as constructive criticism, but I get your point. I don't think it's impossible to correct someone online kindly, but it takes an amazing amount of effort and patience over a period of time, and probably will involve some form of regret during the course of the discussion for hurt feelings on either or both sides. Not a job for the faint hearted huh? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I wasn't speaking about anyone specific in this thread. Just the behavior I've noticed on this site in general. With orthodoxy, charity and humility, phatmass will infiltrate the entire planet earth with Catholic propaganda. The “phat†in phatmass stands for “Preaching Holy Apostolic Truth†Well, speaking from my opinion only, I have seen a lot of Catholic propaganda on here, so we are meeting that criteria ok. And for the most part there is orthodoxy too, but when there are differing opinions in some areas, we sometimes lack the charity and humility part as a group.That doesn't mean that we aren't doing a good job, just that perhaps we can always try a little harder? Otherwise the Holy Apostolic Truth part of phatmass gets lost in the translation.... Edited for typos. Edited June 25, 2014 by nunsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Sometimes uncomfortable truth is accused of lacking charity. But to fail to oppose error is truly uncharitable. Phatmass seems to be experiencing a period where error is becoming more prevalent, or at least much louder. It is important always to respond to this error with truth, and even more important when these errors become more strident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Well, speaking from my opinion only, I have seen a lot of Catholic propaganda on here, so we are meeting that criteria ok. And for the most part there is orthodoxy too, but when there are differing opinions in some areas, we sometimes lack the charity and humility part as a group.That doesn't mean that we aren't doing a good job, just that perhaps we can always try a little harder? Otherwise the Holy Apostolic Truth part of phatmass gets lost in the translation.... Edited for typos. Sometimes there are differing opinions on what the orthodox position is. But there should not be differing opinions on whether we need to be orthodox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I'm sure most of us are aware of the saying; "The truth hurts." Edited June 25, 2014 by Credo in Deum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Sometimes uncomfortable truth is accused of lacking charity. But to fail to oppose error is truly uncharitable. Phatmass seems to be experiencing a period where error is becoming more prevalent, or at least much louder. It is important always to respond to this error with truth, and even more important when these errors become more strident. Responding to error with truth is necessary and good, but sometimes how a thing is said (or written) is almost (or even more) important than what is being said - at least in the initial stages. Maybe it comes back to that Mary Poppins song about how a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. St Francis said to preach the Gospel always, and when necessary to use words. Well, since we have only words here on the Internet, we need to use those words in a way that will entice and enlighten, rather than condemn and cast out. If we are using the word 'propaganda' as part of our title -- we need to think back to what what we want that word to mean... Propaganda is a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of a population toward some cause or position. We can hardly influence those who run away because they feel harsh or condemning attitudes by those trying to do the propagating.... just a thought. I'm sure most of us are aware with the saying; "The truth hurts." So does an injection, but there are ways to make it less painful (speaking as an ex nurse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Sometimes there are differing opinions on what the orthodox position is. But there should not be differing opinions on whether we need to be orthodox. I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me. Edit: I am open to further explanation to help me understand what you are trying to say though! Edited June 25, 2014 by nunsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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