Is It Moral To Make Contraception Illegal?

[Blackwagonman]

Almost forgot ... In regards to the pill for deabilitating medical issues.  How often would your doctor perscribed pregnancy to solve your medical problem?   Your a teenage girl with acne, aww go get pregnant your acne will go away.  Heavy or irregular cycles, aww go get pregnant.  The point is that birth control pills make the body believe its pregnant, which only masks the underlying problem not cure it. 

 

This is one of the other great travesties that birth control has propegated within the medical community and it has very negative implications for women.  Most Doctors don't take the time to find the root cause of many of these deabilitating issues women face.  Instead, they have simply been trained to perscribe birth control.  Not having birth control pills at your doctors finger tips would remove the temporary fix and force them to actually find out and address the underlying causes of these medical issues. 

[Blackwagonman]

Ahh the "people are just going to do it anyways" argument.  Are people mindless animals that have no control over their faculties?  Let me use your logic on another topic, we should give all depressed patients cyanide pills because they are going to kill themselves anyways.  We would be doing a benefit to society if these people died quickly and quietly.  I mean think about the clean up cost or the medical costs associated with treating there condition.  We would all be better off if we just gave depressed people cyanide pills. 

 

People are not mindless animals, we are created in God's image.  When we are faced with real consequences and supported with resources and education that encourages good decisions people generally make good decisions.  Abstinence training which is something our government banned empowers, supports and encourages good and potentially life saving decisions.  Handing out free condoms does nothing of the sort and in fact it ensures an infection rate of at least 14% or higher in AIDS ridden areas due to their failure.  Just think about this financially ... a 14% percent return on your savings account.  The numbers add up really fast.  Then consider this who pays for all of the condoms that are being made?  I can tell you someone is getting rich off of "free" condoms.  What happens when the money to produce condoms in third world countries dries up?

 

A counter point would be who gets paid on abstinence training?  What happens if the money dries up in this scenario?  People deserve to be empowered and treated with diginity.  The question is how does giving people "free" condoms and saying "you are going to do it anyways" diginified or empowering?   You should look up AIDS infection rates in Islamic areas.  Why do you think they are so low?  Do you think every islamic child is given a whole bunch of sex education and a lifetime supply of condoms or pills when they hit puberty?  

 

The Catholic alternative of abstinence training empowers people, supports good decision making and marriage (monogomy) and is totally sustainable even with no monetary funds.  Then instead of spending millions on condoms here and or abroad we could put that money towards more education and or medical supplies (medicine, equipment, etc.).  Seems pretty good to me...

 

[Perigrina]

Of course it is moral to make contraceptives illegal.  Contraceptives are intrinsically immoral.  This is straight-forward.

 

However, it is theoretically possible for it also to be moral for them to be legal.  There are some circumstances under which is it moral to tolerate an evil.  This is a more complicated question and the more interesting one to discuss.  Are we in circumstances under which we ought to tolerate the evil of contraception?

[Lilllabettt]

Ok cook. I think we are essentially saying the same thing. 

 

Living our catholic faith by caring for people who are marginalized, impoverished, lonely, and afraid can all help get rid of the societies need for abortion. Legality in these cases is irrelevant. Im interested in eliminating the source of the problem; the reason people get abortions. 

 

 

500 years from now, the world has achieved an abortion rate of zero. 

No woman ever gets an abortion, ever.

The law still says that preterm human beings are not real people and have no rights.

Is that law irrelevant?

 

500 years from now, the world has achieved racial equality. 

White and black are in actual practice equal in every respect.

Would it matter if in the United States Jim Crow laws were still on the books? 

Or if slavery were still legal?

Lets say the law says black people are not real people and can be owned.

Does it matter? If in practice everyone is equal? 

 

Yes. It does. It's the principle of the thing. The principle matters. The law matters especially much because legal principle poisons the well.  In a nation of laws, bad law ruins the nation. People cannot live in a country that legally institutionalizes discrimination and be unspoiled by it. Nature shudders.

[Socrates]

Moral, yes.

Whether pushing for a contraception ban would be feasible or prudent in current America is another question.

 

I definitely think that if, say, a highly religious town, wanted to have a local law prohibiting sale of contraceptives, it should be allowed to do so.  (As Ave Maria, FL tried to do.)  Such matters should be decided at the local level, rather than by federal courts.

 

Up into the 1960s, many states still had laws against contraceptives on the books (though mostly unenforced), and somehow that did not lead to an apocalyptic situation.  All such laws were struck down by the Supreme Court on the grounds of "privacy,' in a decision that was the immediate precedent to Roe vs. Wade, which declared abortion a "constitutional right."

[Socrates]

Ok cook. I think we are essentially saying the same thing. 

 

Living our catholic faith by caring for people who are marginalized, impoverished, lonely, and afraid can all help get rid of the societies need for abortion. Legality in these cases is irrelevant. Im interested in eliminating the source of the problem; the reason people get abortions. 

 

Justice demands that the law protect the lives of all human beings, not just some - and especially the lives of those most helpless and vulnerable.

 

You might as well say that the legality of all murder or theft or rape is irrelevant, and that we should get rid of laws against those things, and instead try to create a world in which no one would ever feel a need to murder or steal or rape.

 

Of course, the sober reality is that in this fallen world, people unfortunately will always be tempted to do evil things - and will in fact do them, regardless of how good things are in society.

 

Of course, we should be working to help women with difficult pregnancies and such, and do all we can to help them make the right choice. No one denies that. But in a fallen world, there will always be cases in which killing the baby is the easier choice - just as sometimes murder of other persons or theft may seem the easier or more appealing choice, despite the penalty of law.

 

The idea that abortion will just go away if only we elect enough liberal politicians or spend enough money on social programs is a utopian fantasy with no basis in reality.  

Vast increases in federal social programs and spending since the Great Society legislation in the '60s did nothing to eliminate or reduce abortions - whose rates soared afterwards.

[The Hierophant]

By the kind of logic I see in this thread, it would be moral to make fornication, adultery, and lying illegal.  The police state would know no limits.

[PhuturePriest]

We'll never, ever, ever, get abortion illegal. 

 

*Gasp* How could you say such a scandalous thing? the typical pro-lifer asks.

 

Because changing things on the legal front won't do a thing if we don't change anything on the cultural front. Economically and socially speaking, there is a need for abortion. There are many young, unmarried women with no prospects in life who get pregnant and the guy leaves them all alone. They have no other choice but to have an abortion. What is the solution, then? Give them another choice. Outnumber the amount of Planned Parenthoods with crisis pregnancy centers by 10, make adoption less expensive and easier to be done, and there will no longer be a need for abortion. Change people's hearts and convince them abortion is wrong. That is the only way we can conceivably get rid of abortion, and until people realize that and act on it, abortion will continue, and pro-lifers will be sitting around asking people to sign petitions until the end of time, wondering why nothing is changing.

[Credo in Deum]

We'll never, ever, ever, get abortion illegal. 

 

*Gasp* How could you say such a scandalous thing? the typical pro-lifer asks.

 

Because changing things on the legal front won't do a thing if we don't change anything on the cultural front. Economically and socially speaking, there is a need for abortion. There are many young, unmarried women with no prospects in life who get pregnant and the guy leaves them all alone. They have no other choice but to have an abortion. What is the solution, then? Give them another choice. Outnumber the amount of Planned Parenthoods with crisis pregnancy centers by 10, make adoption less expensive and easier to be done, and there will no longer be a need for abortion. Change people's hearts and convince them abortion is wrong. That is the only way we can conceivably get rid of abortion, and until people realize that and act on it, abortion will continue, and pro-lifers will be sitting around asking people to sign petitions until the end of time, wondering why nothing is changing.

 

I wonder if we should take this approach with other crimes against humanity like death camps, genocide, and etc?

[Perigrina]

By the kind of logic I see in this thread, it would be moral to make fornication, adultery, and lying illegal.  The police state would know no limits.

 

 

It is moral to make those things illegal, just not necessarily prudent.

[PhuturePriest]

I wonder if we should take this approach with other crimes against humanity like death camps, genocide, and etc?

 

The majority of the population is not in favor of death camps and genocide and thus those are not legal, therefore your analogy fails.

[PhuturePriest]

I wonder if we should take this approach with other crimes against humanity like death camps, genocide, and etc?

 

The culture changes laws, laws NEVER change the culture. Unless people are behind something, they will rebel or completely ignore a law, especially if a majority of people don't agree with it. If a law was made that everyone has to work 16 hours on Tuesdays, the general population would raise hell and completely ignore it. If, however, the majority of the people really wanted to work more on Tuesdays, they would accept this with open arms. If you want to change the laws on abortion, change the culture, because changing the laws without changing the culture won't accomplish anything, because you won't even be able to change the laws in the first place. Politicians listen to the majority vote, and the majority says abortion is needed and good.

[Socrates]

By the kind of logic I see in this thread, it would be moral to make fornication, adultery, and lying illegal.  The police state would know no limits.

 

By your kind of slippery-slope fallacy "logic," it would be wrong for anything to be illegal.  Because, you know, once one thing's against the law, pretty soon everything will be illegal.

 

As I pointed out, whether or not banning something by law would be moral, and whether or not it would be practical or prudent, are two separate questions.

Some things may be moral to legally ban, but it might be better not to if the enforcement of the law would lead to greater evils than the good that would come from the law.

 

I'd say that it wouldn't be prudent or practical to try to make a law that over 99% of the population would reject.

 

That said, if the people of a certain town or county decided to ban contraceptives, it's not the place of the federal courts to step in and deny it.

That kind of federal over-reach has led to disaster in this country.  

 

And the idea of banning contraception is actually not an unheard of thing; contraceptives were illegal in many states for much of this nation's history.  Of course, that was during a more Christian time, when Protestants and Catholics alike universally agreed that contraception was gravely immoral.

[Socrates]

We'll never, ever, ever, get abortion illegal. 

 

*Gasp* How could you say such a scandalous thing? the typical pro-lifer asks.

 

Because changing things on the legal front won't do a thing if we don't change anything on the cultural front. Economically and socially speaking, there is a need for abortion. There are many young, unmarried women with no prospects in life who get pregnant and the guy leaves them all alone. They have no other choice but to have an abortion. What is the solution, then? Give them another choice. Outnumber the amount of Planned Parenthoods with crisis pregnancy centers by 10, make adoption less expensive and easier to be done, and there will no longer be a need for abortion. Change people's hearts and convince them abortion is wrong. That is the only way we can conceivably get rid of abortion, and until people realize that and act on it, abortion will continue, and pro-lifers will be sitting around asking people to sign petitions until the end of time, wondering why nothing is changing.

 

I agree that we need to significantly change the culture and people's hearts and minds before significant progress can be made against abortion.

 

However, I'd disagree that there is ever an actual need to kill a baby.  Having a baby may create a very difficult situation, but it's almost never a true necessity, any more than other murders are necessary.  Would you say that there is ever a need to kill a baby that is already born?

Of course, that does not mean that we should not do more to help pregnant women and encourage adoption (though in many places people have to placed on waiting lists to adopt).

 

And much as the bleedin' hearts hate to hear this, probably the most important change in the social/cultural front that needs to be made in order to reduce abortion is to work to promote sexual morality, marriage, and the good old-fashioned two-parent family.  That won't be easy, and there are no political quick-fixes, but it's what needs to be done.  A culture of easy sex, promiscuity, and no commitment is one in which abortion thrives, no matter how many condoms you throw at people.

 

 

All that said, pro-lifers should not abandon the political/legal battle.  Justice demands that the law protect the lives of all persons, and at the very least, fighting for legal protection for the unborn keeps this issue in the public view, and can serve as a teaching opportunity to explain why unborn children deserve legal protection.  Giving up the fight altogether sends the message that this issue really isn't that important to us.

 

It's wrong to talk as though pushing for legal protection for the unborn and helping women and changing hearts and minds are mutually exclusive goals.  Typically, this false dichotomy is raised as an excuse to support blatantly pro-abortion politicians.  If "pro-lifers" insist on supporting pro-abortion pols for public office, of course no legal progress will be made.  It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Socrates]

I wonder if we should take this approach with other crimes against humanity like death camps, genocide, and etc?

 

Adolf just needed more hugs.