Parents Against Religious Life

[OnlySunshine]

Oh, wow. Is this story very recent? Or are there any updates? Prayers for Sr. Mary Isabel for perseverance...God bless her!




"Every step of my discernment was like the biggest step of my life."

That's definitely what it feels like!

 

It's at least a few years old.  I hoped MEFV would update it to say she made vows but it hasn't been.  :(

 

However, I did find a blog post on Menlo Park's blog about Sr. Mary Isabel's vow ceremony in 2012.

 

http://opheartprints.blogspot.com/2012/05/first-profession.html

[Feankie]

Mater,
You are one amazing researcher!!!

[nikita92]

If my adult children wanted to enter religious life...I (as their Mother) would support their decision 100%!
I don't understand why parents want to control what their of age children do with their live's!!!!
It's their life and their CHOICE, no matter what ones own personal progitive and opinions are! Our adult children don't owe us their life, so that they have to conduct their life as to please us!(Sorry!I feel passionate on this area of religious discernment and youth wanting to please their parental units)

[OnlySunshine]

Mater,
You are one amazing researcher!!!

 

I live to serve!  ;)

[AnneLine]

I met Sr. Mary Isabel before she entered, and she was a lovely lady.

 

She is still at the Menlo Park monastery....

 

and she was one of the temporarily professed Sisters in Formation who attended the Dominican Monastic Theology School at the Summit Dominican nuns' monastery last June (2014)... and her picture is in the 'class photo'.   You can see it through the link below... (and read more about the combined formation program that they have set up for all the Nuns in formation in their Association.

 

http://nunsopsummit.org/2014/06/mts-continued/

 

  (and I WANT that s'more!)

 

I do not know if her family has changed their views -- sometimes they do, sometimes they don't - it isn't our place to second guess or judge any of them, in my opinion.

 

 I do know of at least one Carmelite novice whose family threatened that if she took her vows, they would never see her or write to her again.  She took them, and last I heard, that was the last she heard of them.  Not an easy thing to have happen... but it does sometimes. 

 

On the other hand... I knew of another woman whose mother delayed her entrance to the Carmelites for over a decade by threatening to kill herself if she entered the monastery.  And made good on at least one attempt.  Because of that, the prioress suggested she wait and trust that God would let the way open IF God wanted her inside.  

 

Shortly after she learned her mother would need total hip replacement surgery for both hips.  She asked the nuns to pray, and the prioress said, "THAT is what we have been waiting for.  This is God's answer!" The woman looked at the prioress with a dubious gaze.  

 

The prioress then said, "This is what we are going to do.  We are going to explain the situation to the doctors, and you will see your mom through her surgery and after she is stabilized and recuperating, you will tell her you are entering, and you will enter while she is still in the hospital.  The doctors and nurses can make sure she doesn't get into trouble.  When it is time for her to come home from the hospital, we will let her come to stay in our guest room, and I will permit you to take care of her.  [The lady was a trained nurse.]  When she sees that you are happy and that she is not losing you, she'll calm down.  You'll see... it will all work out."  

 

And that is what they did... and that is what happened... exactly what the Prioress had foretold.  By the time her mom died, she was at peace and very happy with her daughter's vocation. And that lady has been a cloistered nun for over 40 years now..... 

 

God will help you if you have a vocation --  to be strong and deal with the separation and/or by touching hearts.

 

Prayers for all of you.

Edited July 15, 2014 by AnneLine

[OnlySunshine]

I can only imagine the hardships that some have to endure without the support of their family or friends.  But to go so far as to make vows even when your family threatens to disown you shows real courage and commitment to doing God's will - no matter what.  My friend who just professed vows earlier this month had to face some opposition from her mom when she entered the first time and even more when she re-entered because her father has a chronic, progressive disease that will only worsen with time.  My friend was upset and concerned and asked her Superior what she should do.  The Superior answered, "God provided for your parents before you were born and He will provide for them after you leave."  She also reminded her that one of their apostolates is an assisted living facility so, if the need arose, my friend's parents would be able to live there and be cared for.  It settled my friend's nerves quite a bit and was one of the best responses from a Superior that I've ever heard.

 

My friend's patron saint, Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity, also faced fierce opposition from her mother when she told her of her decision to enter Carmel.  I'll post the video here again that my friend made before she entered as it tells the story better than I could:

 

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSH2eJfGbh8[/media]

[marigold]

I met Sr. Mary Isabel before she entered, and she was a lovely lady.

 

She is still at the Menlo Park monastery....

 

and she was one of the temporarily professed Sisters in Formation who attended the Dominican Monastic Theology School at the Summit Dominican nuns' monastery last June (2014)... and her picture is in the 'class photo'.   You can see it through the link below... (and read more about the combined formation program that they have set up for all the Nuns in formation in their Association.

 

http://nunsopsummit.org/2014/06/mts-continued/

 

  (and I WANT that s'more!)

 

I do not know if her family has changed their views -- sometimes they do, sometimes they don't - it isn't our place to second guess or judge any of them, in my opinion.

 

 I do know of at least one Carmelite novice whose family threatened that if she took her vows, they would never see her or write to her again.  She took them, and last I heard, that was the last she heard of them.  Not an easy thing to have happen... but it does sometimes. 

 

On the other hand... I knew of another woman whose mother delayed her entrance to the Carmelites for over a decade by threatening to kill herself if she entered the monastery.  And made good on at least one attempt.  Because of that, the prioress suggested she wait and trust that God would let the way open IF God wanted her inside.  

 

Shortly after she learned her mother would need total hip replacement surgery for both hips.  She asked the nuns to pray, and the prioress said, "THAT is what we have been waiting for.  This is God's answer!" The woman looked at the prioress with a dubious gaze.  

 

The prioress then said, "This is what we are going to do.  We are going to explain the situation to the doctors, and you will see your mom through her surgery and after she is stabilized and recuperating, you will tell her you are entering, and you will enter while she is still in the hospital.  The doctors and nurses can make sure she doesn't get into trouble.  When it is time for her to come home from the hospital, we will let her come to stay in our guest room, and I will permit you to take care of her.  [The lady was a trained nurse.]  When she sees that you are happy and that she is not losing you, she'll calm down.  You'll see... it will all work out."  

 

And that is what they did... and that is what happened... exactly what the Prioress had foretold.  By the time her mom died, she was at peace and very happy with her daughter's vocation. And that lady has been a cloistered nun for over 40 years now..... 

 

God will help you if you have a vocation --  to be strong and deal with the separation and/or by touching hearts.

 

Prayers for all of you.

 

I'm out of props but that's amazing. What a blessing.

[AnneLine]

You are welcome.  I think the zombies come and nibble on our props while we sleep... I'm out as well.   :( :eat: :(

[AveMariaPurissima]

I don't think my parents are "against" my vocation per se, but I know they have a difficult time with it.  When I entered, it was really hard for them, especially my mom.  I know they approached it with a perspective that since I was 18 (at the time), I was legally an adult, so there wasn't anything they could do to stop me.  Of course I missed my parents too, but what was even harder for me was knowing how much they were suffering.  Just hearing the sadness in her voice during my phone calls home... :( Even now, and it's been over a year since I came back home, my mom still seems to tense up when the topic of religious life comes up.  So I mostly avoid the topic. :/  It's hard though, because even though I'm not really actively discerning right now, I still think I might have a religious vocation...

[PhuturePriest]

they are not religious orders!

 

They are apostolic societies of life, which is a generous term by the Church for any community made after the declaration that no more Orders could be made. They are priests who live in community and have specific apostolates, just like any other community. If they had been made in 1222, they would have been declared religious Orders.

 

Sorry, I just hate it when people are nit-picky about these terms when it makes no sense to be except in cases of official status. In the Church's eyes, they are not religious Orders. But for all practical purposes, they are pretty much the same as communities.

[brandelynmarie]

I'm thinking one must try to maintain a spiritual detachment with loved ones & their reactions while we discern or even get ready to enter. Easier said than done! I call it a "loving with open arms policy". We love them & are ready at a moment's notice to talk about it if they want, but also willing to gently & charitably disagree with them if need be. Or we are able to not talk about it if they don't want to...just never withholding love or affection on our part. If we believe it is in His will & we are trying to follow it, I believe He will give us Grace & strengthen us. :)

[superblue]

They are apostolic societies of life, which is a generous term by the Church for any community made after the declaration that no more Orders could be made. They are priests who live in community and have specific apostolates, just like any other community. If they had been made in 1222, they would have been declared religious Orders.

 

Sorry, I just hate it when people are nit-picky about these terms when it makes no sense to be except in cases of official status. In the Church's eyes, they are not religious Orders. But for all practical purposes, they are pretty much the same as communities.

 

 

 

k so exactly how does one determine the difference between a religious order, and a community ???

 

 

is what you are saying is that just because someone has the name of Benedictine or etc, doesn't necessarily mean they are an official Religious order, and if that is so, how is one suppose to know the difference between a community and an order.

[chrysostom]

Nothing like a monastery's newsletter coming in the post to let your family know that you have at the very least been in contact with religious communities.  :P

[PhuturePriest]

k so exactly how does one determine the difference between a religious order, and a community ???

 

 

is what you are saying is that just because someone has the name of Benedictine or etc, doesn't necessarily mean they are an official Religious order, and if that is so, how is one suppose to know the difference between a community and an order.

 

The Order of Saint Benedict is an official religious order, period. It's been officially recognized. The same goes for Orders like the Carmelites, Dominicans, and Franciscans. However, for communities such as the Little Sisters of the Poor, they are not a religious Order. A religious Order is an official status in the Church that is no longer attainable because during a time in the Medieval Ages, billions of them were popping up and they kept asking the Popes permission to be formally recognized, and it was getting crazy and hectic.

[NonNovi]

They are apostolic societies of life, which is a generous term by the Church for any community made after the declaration that no more Orders could be made. They are priests who live in community and have specific apostolates, just like any other community. If they had been made in 1222, they would have been declared religious Orders.

 

Sorry, I just hate it when people are nit-picky about these terms when it makes no sense to be except in cases of official status. In the Church's eyes, they are not religious Orders. But for all practical purposes, they are pretty much the same as communities.

 

You're missing the point here. The starting point was that they are not a religious order. It is true that after a certain point no "orders" were created anymore. But the important part of the sentence was that the FSSP are not religious. They are a fraternity of "secular" priests, like diocesan ones, without vows. You said yourself they are a society of apostolic life, meaning they are not an institute of consecrated life (like all the orders and congregations). It might look the same, but it is not. FSSP priests are allowed to have property for example (no vow of poverty).

 

 

[PhuturePriest]

You're missing the point here. The starting point was that they are not a religious order. It is true that after a certain point no "orders" were created anymore. But the important part of the sentence was that the FSSP are not religious. They are a fraternity of "secular" priests, like diocesan ones, without vows. You said yourself they are a society of apostolic life, meaning they are not an institute of consecrated life (like all the orders and congregations). It might look the same, but it is not. FSSP priests are allowed to have property for example (no vow of poverty).

 

I'm not missing the point -- I am well aware that they are technically "secular" priests. However, for all practical purposes, they are religious in that they always live in community. That is the point Chrysostom was making when he said he wasn't looking into the religious priesthood. They may not take vows, but they do live in community.

[chrysostom]

I'm not missing the point -- I am well aware that they are technically "secular" priests. However, for all practical purposes, they are religious in that they always live in community. That is the point Chrysostom was making when he said he wasn't looking into the religious priesthood. They may not take vows, but they do live in community.

 

OK well this is getting off topic but I suppose I'll clear this one up:

 

 

Well as of the moment it's more of a discernment oriented towards the evangelical counsels but the religious priesthood is certainly not out of the question.

 

I meant here that I would be happy to discern the priesthood from within a religious community under vows, if God so led me.  But I am drawn to life under vows first at this point.  Living in community is great but the vows are paramount.

Edited July 17, 2014 by chrysostom

[PhuturePriest]

OK well this is getting off topic but I suppose I'll clear this one up:

 

 

I meant here that I would be happy to discern the priesthood from within a religious community under vows, if God so led me.  But I am drawn to life under vows first at this point.  Living in community is great but the vows are paramount.

 

Ah. Well, in that case, the ICKSP may not be for you. ;)

[1054]

((Quick question:  Is a "secular" priest as the term is used here one who lives in the world instead of in a monastic community?))

[Luigi]

((Quick question:  Is a "secular" priest as the term is used here one who lives in the world instead of in a monastic community?))

Yes. Another terms would be "a diocesan priest." "Secular" actually means "in the world."

 

Most secular priests are ordained and incardinated (given official status) in a diocese. They are ordained by the bishop (/archbishop/cardinal) of the diocese. They are under the supervision of the bishop of that diocese (even if the ordaining bishop is moved or dies and is replaced by another bishop). They commit to minister to the people of the diocese (and its missions, if any). They don't take vows of poverty - some diocesan/secular priests come from wealthy families, and they retain their share of the wealth, which is a sign of "worldliness." They don't have distinctive (clothing) habits - they wear the regular "priestly blacks." Most people call these guys "ordered priests."   

 

A priest within an official order (Dominicans, Carmelites, Franciscans, etc.) is still a priest in every sense of the word, but his ministry is somewhat different. Rather than committing to ministering to the people of a particular diocese, they commit to the charism of the founder; they may minister in Chicago for a few years, then go to New York for a few years, then go to some other diocese. They may be ordained by a diocesan bishop, but if they have a bishop in their order, that guy may be the one who ordains them (with the permission of the local bishop, of course). They take vows including poverty - they don't retain their "worldly" possessions, but give up everything so that they can go wherever they're needed whenever they're needed. They usually do have distinctive habits, but that may have changed post-Vatican II.

 

Monks (Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists) are a special case. They're very similar to the guys just above in that they all 'leave the world' and enter the monastery. Some of them study for the priesthood and are ordained; others remain 'brothers' all their lives. But monks usually stay in their original monastery for the rest of their lives (unless their original monastery founds a new monastery, or they could be sent off to Rome to teach in an international university for their order or something). Most of them take a vow of stability, meaning they will stay where they entered. St. Benedict called a monastery "a school of charity," meaning the monks who live together for the rest of their lives work at improving their virtues through their interactions with this more limited group of guys they live with.

 

However, there are also some "fraternities" (brotherhoods) of secular priests. I think the Oratorians were the first such group. These are 'secular' priests in that they haven't left the world to enter a monastery, but they're not a traditional & official order like those mentioned above. They're still priests in every sense of the word, but their ministerial focus is somewhat different from a diocesan priest - they may have been founded to promote some particular devotion, for instance.

 

There are a lot of fine distinctions here. Some are basically historical but are now codified in canon law. Some are based on the charism of the group. Some are based on what they were allowed to do by the secular government in the time/place/culture in which they were created. Most Catholics don't know most of the distinctions, nor do they need to, nor do they care to. If you join a group, they'll explain it all to you - if your family is interested in the specific details, you can explain it to them.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Luigi