Transgender Woman Prepares To Enter Carmelite Convent

[domenica_therese]

If this is really the case, it seems unlikely that she will end up being accepted at a Carmel.  Perhaps we can pray that the process works as it should.

 

:like:

 

Best prayer for all situations. 

[Feankie]

This article is directly coped from the link for IF Press as shown in a previous post. Here goes.....

London, ON. Consecrated maiden Tia Michelle Pesando, a hermaphrodite in the process of becoming a Carmelite sister (and eventually a nun) has released a book pointing out common fallacies regarding Biblical understanding and offering encouragement to the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender community. Titled Why God Doesn't Hate You, the book also reveals elements of her own journey and the story behind her recent suggestion to the Vatican that the Church reinstate a form of same-sex union which it apparently practiced in the Middle Ages.
Tia was assigned the male gender marker since birth (like most classical hermaphrodites), and videos documenting her transition have been viewed by millions. At priestly recommendation she is currently undergoing the procedure to join the Carmelite Third Order; her plan is to remain in this order while she is at home helping to take care of her parents, and then perhaps become a fully-fledged Second Order cloistered Carmelite nun. She has done years of research into some of the most controversial issues facing Christianity and participated in the Vatican's recent Synod on the Family.
Though Tia Michelle is a Roman Catholic, her message is for all denominations of Christianity. Anglican Dean of Theology William J. Danaher Jr. has even stated that "This book will change the world."

[Clare Brigid]

If this woman has an intersex condition, it is certainly inappropriate to characterize her as transgender or transsexual.

 

It may actually have been Cardinal Raymond Burke who received the first transsexual religious sister, when he was bishop of Latrobe, WI.  I explained here in a post last year:  http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/129565-trandgender-navy-seal/?p=2592879

 

We don't have all the facts about the situation or why Cardinal Burke acted as he did, so I do not think it would be correct to draw any conclusions from it for the moral permissibility of transitioning.  It was evidently important to him, for instance, that Sr. Julie Green (formerly Joel Green) no longer approved of surgical sex reassignment.

[Perigrina]

This article is directly coped from the link for IF Press as shown in a previous post. Here goes.....

London, ON. Consecrated maiden Tia Michelle Pesando, a hermaphrodite in the process of becoming a Carmelite sister (and eventually a nun) has released a book pointing out common fallacies regarding Biblical understanding and offering encouragement to the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender community. Titled Why God Doesn't Hate You, the book also reveals elements of her own journey and the story behind her recent suggestion to the Vatican that the Church reinstate a form of same-sex union which it apparently practiced in the Middle Ages.
Tia was assigned the male gender marker since birth (like most classical hermaphrodites), and videos documenting her transition have been viewed by millions. At priestly recommendation she is currently undergoing the procedure to join the Carmelite Third Order; her plan is to remain in this order while she is at home helping to take care of her parents, and then perhaps become a fully-fledged Second Order cloistered Carmelite nun. She has done years of research into some of the most controversial issues facing Christianity and participated in the Vatican's recent Synod on the Family.
Though Tia Michelle is a Roman Catholic, her message is for all denominations of Christianity. Anglican Dean of Theology William J. Danaher Jr. has even stated that "This book will change the world."

 

The scholarship supporting the idea that there was a form of same sex union in the Middle Ages is highly questionable.  It sounds like her research is more agenda driven than truth driven.  

[Benedictus]

The scholarship supporting the idea that there was a form of same sex union in the Middle Ages is highly questionable.  It sounds like her research is more agenda driven than truth driven.  

 

Have you looked into it? There are also claims the church had women deacons.

[Benedictus]

In terms of someone being intersex -  I can't see why this would be some sort of bar to religious life. In terms of transexuals -  I can see why some communities may struggle but this probably doesn't mean it's impossible either. There was a transexual, male to female, that was discerning with a new religious order in my country. This individual used to attend the same city discernment group as me.The three or four sisters of her community knew the situation and they weren't hostile. Although they wanted to be a mixed community from the offset, so i don't know if this impacted their thinking or not. Either way they were beautiful sisters. There are also now more Catholic communities that have men and women living in the same complex, so it's probably not so much of a big deal.

[Perigrina]

Have you looked into it? There are also claims the church had women deacons.

 

I have read material debunking Boswell's claims about  medieval same sex unions.  Here is a representative review:

 

Boswell's style, here as in Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality, is to pack an enormous amount of dry, irrelevant bibliographic material into scores of footnotes, building a pretentious barricade around his thin and vacillating central presentation. Meanwhile, crucial research is often avoided. For example, one would expect a historian discussing medieval sexuality to at least cursorily consider the enormous "courtly love" tradition, with its inherent perversities, but that is relegated to a footnote, which glibly lists, without explanation, 23 books and articles for us to read. Boswell's knowledge of psychology or general sexual history seems minimal, confined to a handful of chic, narrow academic books cited from the 1980s.

Whatever medieval ceremonies of union he may have found, Boswell has not remotely established that they were originally homosexual in our romantic sense. Their real meaning has yet to be determined. Sacrilegious misuse of such ceremonies may indeed have occurred, leading to their banning, but historians are unjustified in extrapolating backwards and reducing fragmentary evidence to its lowest common denominator. The cause of gay rights, which I support, is not helped by this kind of slippery, self-interested scholarship, where propaganda and casuistry impede the objective search for truth.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/bosrev-paglia.asp

 

 

Deacon comes from a Greek word that means servant.  There were women who served in the early Church, for example, helping with the baptisms of women (which involved nudity) but there is no evidence at all that there was an ordained position for women comparable to the male diaconate.

[marigold]

Out of props but you're absolutely right on the deacon thing, Perigrina.

[Benedictus]

Deacon comes from a Greek word that means servant.  There were women who served in the early Church, for example, helping with the baptisms of women (which involved nudity) but there is no evidence at all that there was an ordained position for women comparable to the male diaconate.

Ah interesting. Something I'll probably read more into at some point.

[Antigonos]

In terms of someone being intersex -  I can't see why this would be some sort of bar to religious life. In terms of transexuals -  I can see why some communities may struggle but this probably doesn't mean it's impossible either. There was a transexual, male to female, that was discerning with a new religious order in my country. This individual used to attend the same city discernment group as me.The three or four sisters of her community knew the situation and they weren't hostile. Although they wanted to be a mixed community from the offset, so i don't know if this impacted their thinking or not. Either way they were beautiful sisters. There are also now more Catholic communities that have men and women living in the same complex, so it's probably not so much of a big deal.

 

I can see where being transgender would have problems for a community in that transsexuals need to take hormone therapy for the rest of their lives, after the surgery.  That would be a considerable expense for any community to underwrite.

[Clare Brigid]

I can see where being transgender would have problems for a community in that transsexuals need to take hormone therapy for the rest of their lives, after the surgery.  That would be a considerable expense for any community to underwrite.

 

Estrogen replacement therapy is remarkably inexpensive.  It is testosterone therapy that runs into the hundreds of dollars a month.

 

Nevertheless, if reports are accurate, the Vatican has instructed that transsexuals may not enter religious life.

[veritasluxmea]

In terms of someone being intersex -  I can't see why this would be some sort of bar to religious life. In terms of transexuals -  I can see why some communities may struggle but this probably doesn't mean it's impossible either. 

It's been stated before, and I think it needs to be stated again: Intersex and transsexual are not the same thing. 

I can see where being transgender would have problems for a community in that transsexuals need to take hormone therapy for the rest of their lives, after the surgery.  That would be a considerable expense for any community to underwrite.

What? Hormone therapy isn't a legitimate reason for why transsexuals wouldn't be compatible with an order opposite their birth sex. Transsexuals would be "barred" from religious life for one reason: They aren't a female (or a male) just because they're had a sex re-assignment surgery and identify with the sex. Therefore, they can't enter a religious house for a sex opposite their real sex, like everyone else. 

 

I think people who suffer from transgenderism can and do have vocations, compatible with their birth sex. As with all mental illnesses, care should be taken by both the discerner and the order. Extreme care. 

 

Nevertheless, if reports are accurate, the Vatican has instructed that transsexuals may not enter religious life.

Yes. Maybe this should be moved to the debate table?

[DameAgnes]

I am wondering why it has been made public?

Because she has a book to sell?

[DameAgnes]

They, Carthusians, historically did - because they would also get a stole.  But I'm not sure if they do anymore.

The Benedictines of St. Ceciliar Abbey in Ryde, UK still do this and they include the stole. I believe the Benedictines at Regina Laudis also do it but in an unusual way and I don't know if they use the stole.

[DameAgnes]

This article is directly coped from the link for IF Press as shown in a previous post. Here goes.....

London, ON. Consecrated maiden Tia Michelle Pesando, a hermaphrodite in the process of becoming a Carmelite sister (and eventually a nun) has released a book pointing out common fallacies regarding Biblical understanding and offering encouragement to the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender community. Titled Why God Doesn't Hate You, the book also reveals elements of her own journey and the story behind her recent suggestion to the Vatican that the Church reinstate a form of same-sex union which it apparently practiced in the Middle Ages.
Tia was assigned the male gender marker since birth (like most classical hermaphrodites), and videos documenting her transition have been viewed by millions. At priestly recommendation she is currently undergoing the procedure to join the Carmelite Third Order; her plan is to remain in this order while she is at home helping to take care of her parents, and then perhaps become a fully-fledged Second Order cloistered Carmelite nun. She has done years of research into some of the most controversial issues facing Christianity and participated in the Vatican's recent Synod on the Family.
Though Tia Michelle is a Roman Catholic, her message is for all denominations of Christianity. Anglican Dean of Theology William J. Danaher Jr. has even stated that "This book will change the world."

So much wrong, here, but this leaps out at me: "and participated in the Vatican's recent Synod on the Family."

How did she do that, since the synod will only begin in October 2014?

[vee]

Because she has a book to sell?

 

my thoughts exactly.  my thoughts and what Ive found on her social media

[SNJM]

The Regina Laudis Benedictines do not receive a stole. I was at their last Consecration and it was beautiful.

The Carthusian Nuns receive a stole, a Maniple, a Ring and a Crown. It is my understanding that at their Consecration they are ordained as Deaconnesses. Before everybody gets scandalized; please remember that the Carthusians have retained many of the customs of the early Church, and that includes Eastern practices as well. However, I must make the point as explained to me by a Bishop - they are allowed to read and offer a "homily" on the Gospel only within the community. Supposedly, in addition to the Eastern rites incorporated into their life, this was also for practical reasons as part of the Carthusian charism asks for the Charterhouse (Monasteries) to be away from civilization as much as possible, preferably in the mountains. You can imagine that there were many days when their Carthusian chaplain (as required per each Nun's Charterhouse) could not make it to Mass. (In high mountains, with extremely bad storms, I doubt anybody can leave their dwelling place at all). In those cases, the Nuns do the Liturgy of the Word and the designated Nun would read the Gospel, and give Communion (which had already been consecrated). According to the Bishop I spoke with: if a nun left the Order, she would not be allowed to do these things "In the world." I hope this makes sense. There is a German ex-Carthusian nun who wrote a book in German about her experiences. I am hoping we will see it soon in English!

Regarding Tia; I can only offer prayers and rest my heart on the Mercy of Jesus. We are warned again and again not to judge; we just don't know what is going on within someone's soul - only God does. I trust she will find the right guidance along her way, and the Carmelites are very wise in their lives and discernment process. It's too bad she wrote a book, I'm sure some of her words will be misconstrued.

Blessings,
Rose

[Benedictus]

It's been stated before, and I think it needs to be stated again: Intersex and transsexual are not the same thing. 

where did I say they were the same thing?

[veritasluxmea]

where did I say they were the same thing?

You didn't; I was agreeing with you. 

[Bride of the Lamb]

So much wrong, here, but this leaps out at me: "and participated in the Vatican's recent Synod on the Family."

How did she do that, since the synod will only begin in October 2014?

As you said, so much wrong: "consecrated maiden" (which consecrated virgin would address herself to be a "consecrated maiden"? When I think of maiden, I think of Robin Hood's Maid Marian), "carmelite sister" (when it is the third order) and the ghost of the synod yet to come.