I'm Sorry, Robin Williams, Suicide Is Selfish

[Credo in Deum]

After Blaze responded to Selah in an indifferent and cold manner I don't know why anyone continues to bother responding to her. She does not deserve it. Honestly after that no one should have taken her seriously, and we should have all spammed this thread with Robin Williams gifs. But whatever.

Done!

[blazeingstar]

After Blaze responded to Selah in an indifferent and cold manner I don't know why anyone continues to bother responding to her. She does not deserve it. Honestly after that no one should have taken her seriously, and we should have all spammed this thread with Robin Williams gifs. But whatever.

 

Selah and I had a sidebar.  We're fine.

 

I didn't wish her pain, and there was nothing I can do to change her pain.  I can pray for her, and that's it.

 

I don't hate Robin Williams.  He is one of my favorite actors.  I do think that what he chose was not brave, good or anything else, and that it was selfish.  I pray not only for him, but for his children who are now more likely to choose that path, and for many others, who may now choose that path after seeing the facebook outpouring.

 

I am blunt.  But bluntness dosn't make me any more or less right or wrong.  You see it as "indifferent" and "cold" but really, we'd just gotten done talking about how no one can change another person.

 

Seriously.

[4588686]

 

I am blunt.  But bluntness dosn't make me any more or less right or wrong.  

 

 

 

You misspelled 'whining'. 

[4588686]

 I do sincerely apologize for telling you my opinion on your position rather than just asking dUSt to ban you, though.

 

 

Yeah.  Weird.  Somebody posts a controversial topic on the debate table and people tell them they're wrong.  Oh, the humanity!

[PhuturePriest]

Umm.  People had a few things about Maya Angelo but not nearly as much.  Shirley Temple died this year.  The nanny from the brandy bunch, Casey Casem.  Last year Paul Walker (Fast and Furious, very young), Margaret Thatcher, Tom Clancy.

 

We don't hear about them very much.

 

The young Glee star committed suicide last year also.  People were much more careful not to glorify him the same way Robin Willims is being now.  The actors, all with their own pain, were very careful in the media.  They were very careful with the show that's still running.  I didn't see any "you're free" sort of nonsense and articles about that young man making a "brave" decision.

 

He didn't commit suicide, he overdosed on drugs and alcohol. The investigative conclusion was that he didn't intentionally kill himself. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/02/showbiz/cory-monteith-death-accidental/

Edited August 14, 2014 by FetusPriest387

[dUSt]

Umm.  People had a few things about Maya Angelo but not nearly as much.  Shirley Temple died this year.  The nanny from the brandy bunch, Casey Casem.  Last year Paul Walker (Fast and Furious, very young), Margaret Thatcher, Tom Clancy.
 
We don't hear about them very much.
 
The young Glee star committed suicide last year also.  People were much more careful not to glorify him the same way Robin Willims is being now.  The actors, all with their own pain, were very careful in the media.  They were very careful with the show that's still running.  I didn't see any "you're free" sort of nonsense and articles about that young man making a "brave" decision.

Seriously yo, you cray cray like fo real g.

[maximillion]

We celebrate today St Maximillion Kolbe, who gave up his life in Auschwitz so that another could live. This was a voluntary going to meet death..................his act, even though he knew without doubt it would lead to his death, is considered a noble act................we presume it was not based on a mental illness, though there are those who would argue that offering oneself in place of someone else, knowing you would die, was an act of sheer lunacy!

 

As has been mentioned, many who take their own life have a belief that those left behind will be better off. This is an erroneous belief, but it is one born out of disordered thinking.

 

Those who have an active mental illness have disturbed and disordered thought patterns. Even my own Aspies sometime makes me misinterpret what is going on around me and I make big blunders as a result. In what way can the result of disordered thought be considered selfish?

A selfish act must be one carried out with insight and understanding of it's possible impact, and insight and understanding, or that lack of, is surely one of the criteria for deciding if someone is mentally competent or not............if a person is so lost in the darkness of depression or has an erroneous set of beliefs about their life and its importance to others which is being mediated by brain chemistry which has gone awry, how can action based on that be truly said to be selfish?

 

What I think I hear behind all the bluster and anger, Blazingstar, is terror.

 

You have been badly affected, and, I would even go so far, reading your posts and their tone here, possibly even traumatised. You are in fact not able to think clearly about this subject. Does that make you selfish? I would say not. Your insistence on 'your opinion' not being one that will change is a measure of the kind of intransigence I see in the wake of someone who has been extremely hurt.

 

I am so sorry you have had these experiences, I am sorry people around you have taken their own lives. I pray that God is merciful to them, and that His healing power reaches out to all of you who have been affected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anastasia13]

After Blaze responded to Selah in an indifferent and cold manner I don't know why anyone continues to bother responding to her. She does not deserve it. Honestly after that no one should have taken her seriously, and we should have all spammed this thread with Robin Williams gifs. But whatever.

 

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/desertsands/media/Interweb%20Forum%20postings/RW1_zpscc9775b5.jpg.html][/URL]

[Anastasia13]

Is anyone else thinking about the theme song to M.A.S.H right now?

[blazeingstar]

Seriously yo, you cray cray like fo real g.

 

That's so helpful.  Thanks.  /sarcasim

 

 

We celebrate today St Maximillion Kolbe, who gave up his life in Auschwitz so that another could live. This was a voluntary going to meet death..................his act, even though he knew without doubt it would lead to his death, is considered a noble act................we presume it was not based on a mental illness, though there are those who would argue that offering oneself in place of someone else, knowing you would die, was an act of sheer lunacy!

 

As has been mentioned, many who take their own life have a belief that those left behind will be better off. This is an erroneous belief, but it is one born out of disordered thinking.

 

Those who have an active mental illness have disturbed and disordered thought patterns. Even my own Aspies sometime makes me misinterpret what is going on around me and I make big blunders as a result. In what way can the result of disordered thought be considered selfish?

A selfish act must be one carried out with insight and understanding of it's possible impact, and insight and understanding, or that lack of, is surely one of the criteria for deciding if someone is mentally competent or not............if a person is so lost in the darkness of depression or has an erroneous set of beliefs about their life and its importance to others which is being mediated by brain chemistry which has gone awry, how can action based on that be truly said to be selfish?

 

What I think I hear behind all the bluster and anger, Blazingstar, is terror.

 

You have been badly affected, and, I would even go so far, reading your posts and their tone here, possibly even traumatised. You are in fact not able to think clearly about this subject. Does that make you selfish? I would say not. Your insistence on 'your opinion' not being one that will change is a measure of the kind of intransigence I see in the wake of someone who has been extremely hurt.

 

I am so sorry you have had these experiences, I am sorry people around you have taken their own lives. I pray that God is merciful to them, and that His healing power reaches out to all of you who have been affected.

 

Yeah, well I make these decisions for myself.  I've always felt this way, well since 7, but that's another story.  I don't think I've been hurt at all.  I've been the one who holds things together and figures things out.  Suicide is contagious, and even the APA agrees with me.  Parents kill themselves all the time, his daughter is going trough hell right now.  Hell that could of been prevented.  Hell that will be repeated by the people who feel vindicated by the numbers of cute, well meaning memes.  Its a choking, poison that can never be extinguished and our hyper-mobile, hyper-social head in the arse society is only making it worse.

[maximillion]

 

 

Yeah, well I make these decisions for myself. 

 

No one is suggesting otherwise, but just because you have made these decisions does not mean you have the monopoly on the truth about suicide, and your reference to this stuff affecting you since you were aged seven makes me even more of the opinion that this is based on hurt.

 

 

 

I don't think I've been hurt at all. 

 

 

So it does not hurt to know your friends/relatives killed themselves? It does not hurt to watch his daughter 'going through hell'..........I think you do hurt, it is actually pretty obvious, not only that but not to be hurting over this would mean you were pretty inhuman, and I know you are not!

 

However, Blaze, I am not going to get into it with you about it. You have your opinions and you obviously hold them very strongly - for whatever reason.

It seems Robin Williams death has made us all sit up and take notice in our own way, including being appalled by some of the stuff on social media ( which I am too).

[Anomaly]

An action can be inherently selfish by definition. It is an act that does not consider OR dismisses the effect to others.

Whether or not the person considering or accomplishing suicide intentionally dismisses or intentionally ignores the effect on others is an entirely different matter.

IMHO, it is counterproductive and harmful to not openly discuss the effects of suicide on family, loved ones, friends, or strangers out of fear of being "rude". A recent blog post from a dear loved one, my daughter, talking about her two failed attempts:

"But we need to start talking and to be open to listening. Together, we can make it less terrifying for people share these struggles with others. We can take down this wall of stigma, one brick at a time, every time we generate a conversation about mental illness. We can change the idea that talking about depression is "rude", or "weird", or "weak"..

We just have to keep talking about it.

I chose to share the raw version if my story - unfiltered, unedited - in the hope that it will inspire others to share about themselves. To start a conversation. Maybe even strike someone at the right moment, and convey the message: You are not a freak. You are not alone. You are not without hope.
I have survived and so will you.
And I am never, ever going to stop talking about it."

I am not afraid to let her know how painful her death (or anyone considering suicide) would be to me and her mother because it may sound rude or inappropriate. So painful for the rest of our lives that I will endure anything else, and beg her to consider how much she is not alone. There are many people that would grieve for her and given the opportunity, would try to help battle the demons. Maybe that is selfish of us as well. So be it.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Anomaly

[Aloysius]

of course no one said not to talk about its affect on people, especially as a reason why it should not be done.  but I find it hard to reconcile the part of your post where you insist on continuing to use the word "selfish" and the quote about tearing down the stigma... from my perspective, leveling judgments like "selfish" that very clearly do not account for the mental disorder because they imply some fault in the individual is an extreme example of the way that stigma is created--people are made to feel shamed, feel weak, feel like there's something wrong with them, that their depression and their thoughts of suicide come from some selfish (which can easily be connected to self-centered) perspective... rather than what they are, which is a disorder you need to work through and get help for.  I mean if using words like "selfish" is not central to that stigma around talking about these things, I can't imagine what would be.

 

So to add on to whoever might be reading this that it might strike at the right time: You are not a freak. You are not alone. You are not without hope.  You are not just being selfish or self centered, you are not just being weak.  This is not your fault, and your loved ones will understand that.  It's not your fault.  Find someone to talk to.  It's been posted before on this thread, but again, 24/7, here's the suicide hotline you can call 1-800-273-8255.  

[Anomaly]

Seriously yo, you cray cray like fo real g.

I kinda thought Blaze is commenting and opinionating on an apparent acceptance and justification, "by some", in Robin's case, on social media. Not everyone has the superpower of being pithy.

I'll consider both perspectives and opinions, waiting for my own pithiness to power up.

[CrossCuT]

Umm.  People had a few things about Maya Angelo but not nearly as much.  Shirley Temple died this year.  The nanny from the brandy bunch, Casey Casem.  Last year Paul Walker (Fast and Furious, very young), Margaret Thatcher, Tom Clancy.

 

We don't hear about them very much.

 

The young Glee star committed suicide last year also.  People were much more careful not to glorify him the same way Robin Willims is being now.  The actors, all with their own pain, were very careful in the media.  They were very careful with the show that's still running.  I didn't see any "you're free" sort of nonsense and articles about that young man making a "brave" decision.

Most of us on here had the majority of our childhood in the 90s when Robin Williams released a ton of films that we watched. We grew up seeing him on our screens, laughing at this jokes, crying during the sad scenes, and joining in his triumphs! (like when peter pan told captain hook to NEVER RETURN!! :) )

 

The people you mentioned are a far cry from the impact that Robin had. So they dont compare. 

[CrossCuT]

IMHO, it is counterproductive and harmful to not openly discuss the effects of suicide on family, loved ones, friends, or strangers out of fear of being "rude". A recent blog post from a dear loved one, my daughter, talking about her two failed attempts:

 

No one is really opposed to having an intelligent conversation about suicide and mental illness. Its just that this thread was started as flaming  gun loaded with loathsome hook. The outrage is not because we dont want to discuss the real topic, the outrage is because Blazey decided to use a cheap, uncharitable, and thoughtless means of getting peoples attention. 

 

By all means, if you want to have a serious discussion, maybe we can make a new thread and flush this one down the toilet. 

[blazeingstar]

Most of us on here had the majority of our childhood in the 90s when Robin Williams released a ton of films that we watched. We grew up seeing him on our screens, laughing at this jokes, crying during the sad scenes, and joining in his triumphs! (like when peter pan told captain hook to NEVER RETURN!! :) )

 

The people you mentioned are a far cry from the impact that Robin had. So they dont compare. 

 

Hook was my first movie.  But I'm pretty sure Maya Angelou had a bigger impact on the world than that.

[CrossCuT]

She is a pretty fantastic lady, but for me...to say she had the same impact on my childhood as Robin Williams would be a lie. 

[Anomaly]

of course no one said not to talk about its affect on people, especially as a reason why it should not be done. but I find it hard to reconcile the part of your post where you insist on continuing to use the word "selfish" and the quote about tearing down the stigma... from my perspective, leveling judgments like "selfish" that very clearly do not account for the mental disorder because they imply some fault in the individual is an extreme example of the way that stigma is created--people are made to feel shamed, feel weak, feel like there's something wrong with them, that their depression and their thoughts of suicide come from some selfish (which can easily be connected to self-centered) perspective... rather than what they are, which is a disorder you need to work through and get help for. I mean if using words like "selfish" is not central to that stigma around talking about these things, I can't imagine what would be.

So to add on to whoever might be reading this that it might strike at the right time: [font='Open Sans']You are not a freak. You are not alone. You are not without hope. You are not just being selfish or self centered, you are not just being weak. This is not your fault, and your loved ones will understand that. It's not your fault. Find someone to talk to. It's been posted before on this thread, but again, 24/7, here's the suicide hotline you can call [/font]1-800-273-8255.

You are welcome to your personal definition and judgement and stigmatization of the concept of selfish. Selfish is simply being self focused. Too much, it self destructive and isolating. Too little, it is self destructive and isolating.

Ignoring the possibility of considering the degree of selfishness, is in fact contributive to becoming unhealthily selfish.

When one is in the darkest depths of depression, any connection to others, however frail, thin, or painful, may be the last thread to a lifeline. I've personally have been pulled off the edge by feelings of guilt and responsibility for the effects I would inflict on survivors. I acknowledge that not everyone, on either side, may feel it is helpful to offer or grasp that particular thread.

[Anomaly]

No one is really opposed to having an intelligent conversation about suicide and mental illness. Its just that this thread was started as flaming gun loaded with loathsome hook. The outrage is not because we dont want to discuss the real topic, the outrage is because Blazey decided to use a cheap, uncharitable, and thoughtless means of getting peoples attention.

By all means, if you want to have a serious discussion, maybe we can make a new thread and flush this one down the toilet.

Outrage and shutting down is not contributive to a serious discussion. A thoughtful, respectful, and serious response is.

I think the conversation is going rather well. I have my opinions and perspective. I consider it as sometimes equal, superior, inferior, or more accurate than others.

I rarely think my opinion, or others are completely thoughtless. Clueless maybe, but that's probably just my ego.

Blaze and others are making valid points and bringing up things to consider. I personally find no need to dismiss any opinions. I do have the super power to ignore.