Bruce S Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 (edited) [quote]Vatican, Jun. 09 (CWNews.com) - The Vatican will soon publish a study on the Inquisition, containing the proceedings of an international conference held in Rome in 1998. The Vatican has scheduled a press conference for June 15, at which three cardinals will speak about the new study. Cardinal Roger Etchegary was involved because the original conference on the Inquisition, held in October 1998, was organized by the committee to prepare for the Jubilee Year 2000, which he chaired. Cardinal Georges Cottier, the theological of the pontifical household, presided over the conference. And Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, the Vatican archivist, has custody over the records that remain from the work of the Inquisition. The October 1998 conference brought together 30 scholars, who met behind closed doors to discuss the actions of the Inquisition, putting that work in the proper historical context. The research submitted to that committee was partially responsible for the decision by Pope John Paul II (bio - news) to issue an apology for the episodes of intolerance that have marked the history of the church; he included the use of coercive methods by the Inquisition. Cardinal Cottier had been asked by the Jubilee preparatory committee to preside over a theological commission that would assess the excesses and errors committed by Catholics in the name of the Church. Prior to the conference on the Inquisition, he had also chaired a previous meeting, in October 1997, on the roots of anti-Jewish bias within Christianity. As he opened the conference on the Inquisition, Cardinal Cottier stressed that the aim of the committee's work was to establish the real facts about the Inquisition, eliminating popular misconceptions and allowing a fair and balanced view of the historic phenomena.[/quote] [Read whitewash and rewriting of VERY clearly known history....sheesh] [quote]He pointed out at the time that the Inquisition was set up to address a very real problem, "the heresy that threatened the people's faith and destroyed the unity of the Church."[/quote] [So, you join forces with the secular states, and murder, torture, rip out tounges, burn, ruin financially, and such...but hey, you gotta stop the Protestants from MERELY worshipping outside the venerable Catholic Church, don't you? ... sheesh again.] [quote]Citing the oft-repeated desires of Pope John Paul, he said that the Church should undertake a "purification of memory" in preparation for the Jubilee celebration.[/quote] [Purification of Memory? Grin, there we go again, rewriting history, and WHITEWASHING the crimes, PC talk is such the rage you know...sheesh, for the third time.] [quote]Cardinal Cottier said that the conference should focus on the Inquisition as a single phenomenon, rather than on "inquisitions," because "the different tribunals constitute a single reality." He encouraged scholars to avoid confusion between the acts of a government (Spain) and the acts of ecclesiastical bodies.[/quote] [Ah, forget about the FACT, that the GOVERNMENTS were told, that if they DID not do the dirty work for the Catholic Church, the members refusing to do so, would be excommunicated, huh? Blame the OTHER GUY, wasn't that what Adam did to Eve, and Eve to the SERPENT too. Nothing really changes, does it...sheesh, the fourth time.] [quote]The historical research on the Inquisition was made possible by the opening of Vatican archives from the Holy Office-- the body originally known as the Inquisition, and now as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. The records date back to the 12th and 13th centuries, when the first Church tribunals were set up to combat the Catharist heresy. After a long and turbulent history, the Inquisition finally ended in Spain in 1834.[/quote] KEEP IN MIND THE OFFICE OF THE INQUISTION STILL EXSISTS THEY JUST RENAMED IT! Ratzinger must have worked A LONG time - this has been in the works for almost a decade now, it apparently took a lot of work, to rewrite history. Edited June 10, 2004 by Bruce S
Bruce S Posted June 10, 2004 Author Posted June 10, 2004 [url="http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/64.htm"]http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/64.htm[/url]
Aloysius Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 oooooohhhh bruce, you jump to dig up dirt on anything and anyone you can. you forget to mention that that "well-known history" has sources that mainly date centuries later, and written by protestants you forget to mention that protestants committed many more henious crimes against Catholics that Martin Luther went around burning every book but the Bible and having ppl who didn't renounce the Catholic Faith executed that the Inquisition was more prone to give penance than dish out torture, and gave people plenty of chances to renounce their heresies, whether they be islamic (spain's tryin to stay self-ruled and keep the moores out) or jewish or protestant. that overall the Spanish Inquisition was far less murderous than the secular courts of the day that people who were accused of a crime in secular court would often udder blasphemies SIMPLY SO THAT THEY'D BE SENT TO THE INQUISITION, which was far more lenient than secular courts JPII apologized because the Church should be held to a higher standard, the Church should not be a terror to anyone nor use threatening coersion for conversion but rather love and patience where are your protestant churches apologizing? oh yeah, in Protestant theology you forget about those who came before you. we are only connected in the body of Christ to those who are around in our time, we should ignore the skeletons (you know, Christians stay away from bones apparently) in our closets and forget about them... well, according to Protestant Theology but in Catholic Theology, we are connected to the Body of Christ past and present, and we will admit the mistakes of our predecessors and apologize for them. with all that stuff you forgot to mention you either have a slippery mind or we should take heed to Katholiko's advice in YOUR SIGNATURE! Pax Amorque Christi
VeraMaria Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 (edited) Bruce, here is a link that should clear some things up, if you are seriously interested in learning and in getting answers. [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp[/url] Edited June 10, 2004 by VeraMaria
DojoGrant Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 (edited) Wow, nice commentary. *Reminds self not to respond a second time.* If you seek objective truth about this, funny how all you respond with is cover-up/conspiracy trash talk. You go from what you view the Church's extreme position is to the exact opposite end of the spectrum, as if no one would notice. You don't seek the truth of history; you seek your version. If I'm wrong, you need to rewrite your opening post, because it says nothing otherwise. P.S. BobRyan of BaptistBoard, a vehement anti-Catholic, was praising this study as the Church facing up to the mistakes of its members. I guess you can't please everyone. Ain't that the truth. Edited June 10, 2004 by DojoGrant
Child of God Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Hummm.... Objective History..... Kind of like what we learn about the settling of our nation in school, and the unwritten history of the Native Americans whose homes were stolen from them. One thing I've learned in my study of history is that they are seldom unbiased, and the generally accepted history is written by the conquering forces. (I'm a half breed. I've got a point of view from both sides of the coin on this one.) With all the talk about the inquisiton everywhere I look (I do post on the BB also, but have been discouraged that the Catholic voices have been silenced.), I'm curious to read the histories from both points of view. I think the reason that your Protestant friends are so eager to push this subject is that the Catholic Church bases so much on its history and tradition. Trying to say that Protestants ignore their own history is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. Most Born Again non-Catholics would say that their own relationship with Jesus is more important than their churches history. That is because they view the "body of Christ" differently than you do. You see the body defined in the Catholic Church throughout all time. Dead Saints are people who can be communicated with today (I'm sorry if I have misunderstood and this is not true) They see it as all Christians throughout history, regardless of denomination. The local church is guided by the Holy Spirit working through a Pastor and the church members. While there are writings of past Christians that many will refer to, the non-Catholic Christian will not see or meet that person until they are in heaven. They are not tied to traditions and writings of past leaders (in theory..). I'm not saying that it is a good or a bad thing to be tied to the past, just that the points of view are very different. I think that is why there is so much emphasis on the past of the Catholic Church. They feel if you are going to base your claims to authority on your history, you must accept all of your history. They really can't be held to their history because they see their relationship with God as an individual decision, and then they work through the local church. Agree or disagree with me as you will. I'm just trying to shed a little light on the discussion here! God bless!
Paladin D Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Jun 10 2004, 10:21 AM'] oooooohhhh bruce, you jump to dig up dirt on anything and anyone you can. you forget to mention that that "well-known history" has sources that mainly date centuries later, and written by protestants you forget to mention that protestants committed many more henious crimes against Catholics that Martin Luther went around burning every book but the Bible and having ppl who didn't renounce the Catholic Faith executed that the Inquisition was more prone to give penance than dish out torture, and gave people plenty of chances to renounce their heresies, whether they be islamic (spain's tryin to stay self-ruled and keep the moores out) or jewish or protestant. that overall the Spanish Inquisition was far less murderous than the secular courts of the day that people who were accused of a crime in secular court would often udder blasphemies SIMPLY SO THAT THEY'D BE SENT TO THE INQUISITION, which was far more lenient than secular courts JPII apologized because the Church should be held to a higher standard, the Church should not be a terror to anyone nor use threatening coersion for conversion but rather love and patience where are your protestant churches apologizing? oh yeah, in Protestant theology you forget about those who came before you. we are only connected in the body of Christ to those who are around in our time, we should ignore the skeletons (you know, Christians stay away from bones apparently) in our closets and forget about them... well, according to Protestant Theology but in Catholic Theology, we are connected to the Body of Christ past and present, and we will admit the mistakes of our predecessors and apologize for them. with all that stuff you forgot to mention you either have a slippery mind or we should take heed to Katholiko's advice in YOUR SIGNATURE! Pax Amorque Christi [/quote] Very well put.
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 (edited) Nobody takes this tabloid stuff seriously, so let's avoid posting it. Edited June 10, 2004 by thedude
Bruce S Posted June 10, 2004 Author Posted June 10, 2004 (edited) Gee, I quote FROM the Vatican news reporters. And you said I'm using unreliable sourcing AND "digging up dirt" this was FROM Rome, posted to ALL the world yesterday. Sheesh. And I'm horrified that folks here want to defend the Inquisition and the comment that some WANTED to be turned over to them... Boggles my mind. You guys can be really weird some days. Lumberjack, you take it from here, I'm going to take a walk around the block. Defending the Inquisition.... ???? Edited June 10, 2004 by Bruce S
the lumberjack Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 zounds and zoinks my good man! I'll hold them off till your return from the afternoon stroll! aha!!! back I say!!! TOUCHÉ!!!
dUSt Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 So neither care to address the counter-points brought up?
Paladin D Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Jun 10 2004, 03:05 PM'] like what there, dusty bro? [/quote] These good points that Al brought up... [quote]oooooohhhh bruce, you jump to dig up dirt on anything and anyone you can. you forget to mention that that "well-known history" has sources that mainly date centuries later, and written by protestants you forget to mention that protestants committed many more henious crimes against Catholics that Martin Luther went around burning every book but the Bible and having ppl who didn't renounce the Catholic Faith executed that the Inquisition was more prone to give penance than dish out torture, and gave people plenty of chances to renounce their heresies, whether they be islamic (spain's tryin to stay self-ruled and keep the moores out) or jewish or protestant. that overall the Spanish Inquisition was far less murderous than the secular courts of the day that people who were accused of a crime in secular court would often udder blasphemies SIMPLY SO THAT THEY'D BE SENT TO THE INQUISITION, which was far more lenient than secular courts JPII apologized because the Church should be held to a higher standard, the Church should not be a terror to anyone nor use threatening coersion for conversion but rather love and patience where are your protestant churches apologizing? oh yeah, in Protestant theology you forget about those who came before you. we are only connected in the body of Christ to those who are around in our time, we should ignore the skeletons (you know, Christians stay away from bones apparently) in our closets and forget about them... well, according to Protestant Theology but in Catholic Theology, we are connected to the Body of Christ past and present, and we will admit the mistakes of our predecessors and apologize for them. with all that stuff you forgot to mention you either have a slippery mind or we should take heed to Katholiko's advice in YOUR SIGNATURE![/quote] And the Catholic.com link VeraMaria has posted, dealing with this issue.
Bruce S Posted June 10, 2004 Author Posted June 10, 2004 (edited) [quote]that the Inquisition was more prone to give penance than dish out torture,[/quote] MORE *prone TO??* !! Like just WHEN is TORTURE warranted? More prone to....argh. I guess a LITTLE torture for those who WANT TO WORSHIP God without the Catholic Church is just fine. Argh. [quote] and gave people plenty of chances to renounce their heresies, whether they be islamic (spain's tryin to stay self-ruled and keep the moores out) or jewish or protestant.[/quote] THEN they tortured them, before killing them. Got it. Give them a chance to agree YOU are the only way, if they *might* just happen to have a different viewpoint... Lead them off for pain, suffering and death. And you guys are ACTUALLY posting this and thinking it was OK?? Gimmie a massive dose of Luther YOU WERE A GREAT MAN!! Edited June 10, 2004 by Bruce S
Ash Wednesday Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 *hack* *cough* *cough* *cou-[b]cromwell[/b]-gh* *cough* *cough*
the lumberjack Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Jun 10 2004, 01:26 PM'] These good points that Al brought up... And the Catholic.com link VeraMaria has posted, dealing with this issue. [/quote] oh, you mean pointing the finger in another direction, at other events, to detract and distract from this one? like catching you fresh after you kill someone and you saying, "Well Charles Manson killed WAAAY more people than I did!!!" you mean those points?
dUSt Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Okay, can we get a summary from the non-Catholics in this thread then? What exactly is your point? In a sentence, what is it that this thread is trying to prove? Paraphrase. What should us Catholics take from this thread. Why was it posted?
ironmonk Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 lumb, jack, Do you have any idea how you make yourselves look when you don't listen to both sides? Not just how you look to Catholics who know their faith, but to non-Catholics as well. There's a book called "Salvation at Stake" by a non-Catholic Harvard Professor. I think you both should read it. The Inquisition has never been closed... only a name change. There were mutiple inquisitions, and it was not the Church who did any of the killing. All the killings were done by civil governements. Every government was guilty of it, Catholic and non-Catholic... the Catholic Church was not guilty of it. Just as there are priests who go against Church teaching, during the Spanish Inquisition there were a couple bishops who went against the teaching. Why does that supprise anyone or what does that prove? Nothing. Judas was an Apostle and he fell, bishops fall too sometimes.... but the Church that Christ built always stands, like a Rock.... 2000 years.... The Catholic Church. If you want, I can send you the lecture files of my philosophy class so it will help you understand better what a sound argument is. Also, please go to the Catholic.com link above, and here are a few others.... [url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ247.HTM"]THE PROTESTANT INQUISITION - "Reformation" Intolerance and Persecution [/url] [url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ345.HTM#30)%20Inquisition%20and%20Crusades"]Inquisition and Crusades [/url] [url="http://www.chnetwork.org/daconv.htm"]How Newman Convinced me of the Apostolicity of the Catholic Church [/url] [url="http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/inquisition.asp"]Spanish Inquisition[/url] [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm"]Inquisition - Catholic Encyclopedia[/url] Ignorance is not bliss guys... God Bless, ironmonk
VeraMaria Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Did you even TRY reading the website I posted? It touches on many points you mentioned? Do you want me to copy paste? [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp[/url] Here's another one: "The Catholic Inquisition: Fact vs. Fiction [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=647"]http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=647[/url] (if that wont load try [url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/article2.html"]http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Do...6/article2.html[/url] ) Just look here if you really are interested in finding out for yourself: [url="http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ421.HTM#Inquisition(s)%20and%20Persecutions"]http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ421.HTM#Inquisit...%20Persecutions[/url] lots of info right there God Bless!
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