Dress Code For Going To Mass

[Gabriela]

:heart: JMJ

 

I have a few thoughts on the matter but right now I will only say this. That, for me, when I go to mass I don't entirely notice others around me because I am focusing my interior on being with Jesus. What I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't worry about what others around you may think of you, but to dress in a way that you feel God would be pleased with (I'm sure He's happy you are there to be with Him anyways). I'm aware that this doesn't really answer the original question, these were just my humble thoughts that came up when I was reading the above posts. And also, I think it is good to remember that "For in the way that you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you" (Matthew 7:2)

 

Welcome to Phatmass, Charbel! Great name and profile pic! :)

[Nunsense]

:proud:

[11] And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. [12] And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? But he was silent. [13] Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [14] For many are called, but few are chosen. 
 

 

 

The problem with proof-texting (finding passages of scripture that supports whatever position you want to uphold.) is that for every quote you drag out to prove your point, someone else can drag out an equally valid one to prove theirs. There is also the question of translation and interpretation, understanding and communication. I still like using passages from scripture to express things, but I think this one is a little weak to support some kind of policy about what to wear to church. One must consider a lot more to this parable than just what people were wearing.

 

After all, the Bible also says.

 

When they entered, he looked at Eliab and thought, "Surely the LORD'S anointed is before Him." 7But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."  1 Sam 16:7

 

Now you respond with a quote that supports your position and then someone responds with another for theirs. This is really not a good way to dialogue. I like this article on proof-texting -- it kind of explains the practice in a simple way and encourages using scripture for dialogue instead.

The Problem with Proof Texting 

[Nihil Obstat]

You need not see it as proof texting. If I were doing that I would also need to have taken a firm position in the debate. You seem to be assuming that I have.

[CountrySteve937]

Is polyester more holy than denim? I half jest, but seriously though what makes a certain fabric morally superior? Think about that.

 

That still doesn't give you a right or reason to look down on others who wear blue jeans or whose clothes aren't hot-ironed. I'm not saying that you are looking down on people, but there are those who believe "hey I was poor and/or had it rough and I was still able to do x,y, AND z, so everybody else should be able to!"

 

Perhaps one reason your mother was so adamant is that she knew that other people would look down on her and her children if y'alls dress wasn't up to snuff. The reason that people are so quick to turn their nose up at the "lessers" is more regrettable to me than coming to church with jeans and sandals (wait, didn't Jesus wear sandals?)

 

 

 

Oh no. you just brought up the "wedding/meeting the president/other formal event" argument. I am grieved!

 

Here's the thing. A wedding is about the marrying couple. Meeting the president, which I wouldn't dress up for either, is about political pageantry. Going to funeral is about the deceased and their loved ones. Going to Mass though, is not about other people, it's about worshiping GOD with the community of believers. In the former examples, the even is primarily about other people. I'm not going to be a jerk and show up in jeans and a t-shirt and distract from the event. I'm going to wear a dress, begrudgingly, and wear dress shoes/sandals that hurt my feet because that's just what you do. Those are just the social norms and I blindly adhere to them just to get along in life.

 

But when going to Mass, it shouldn't be primarily about other people, but about God. Yes there are social norms for sacred spaces and I believe propriety has value to an extent, but in a highly pluralistic and individualistic society (perhaps regrettable so) "sunday best" does not have one immutable meaning, at least in the present day US.

 

My "best" outfit would probably be a dress that I have if we're talking in terms of formality, but since it wasn't made in the Victorian era, some people in church would think I'm a whore. OK, so I throw a sweatshirt over myself to cover up, but now some people think I look sloppy so now I'm a harlot AND a sloppy one at that. Oops my knees are showing, scandalous, so I'll get a longer dress, but then it drags on the ground and there's some dirt and tears on the bottom. How dare I walk around with such ratty clothes!

 

Throughout the BULK of human history and in many cultures present-day there was simply not enough variety in clothing (for non-royal folks) for there to be a difference between casual clothes and formal wear. Why then is it such a big freaking deal to wear your best? Why is the language of clothing so overanalyzed? It's honestly on the bottom of my list for daily decision making.

 

sorry if I seem over-eager. It's a soft-spot for me I guess. I have absolutely no problem with those who wear their sunday best especially if they are doing it to honor God. In fact I commend them. But to foist that standard on everyone as a rule is what gets my goat.

 

Of course, but I never mentioned other people either :) we don't wear our best outfits for other people, but for God.  Though of course the exteriors come second to the interior preparation, how we use the exterior generally reflects our interior life. If I only own two pair of jeans, foe example, I'm going to wear the best jeans I have and that would be pleasing to God more than a snobbish attitude about wearing the finest silk suit. http://www.fisheaters.com/TLMetiquette.html

 

 

Pax! :)

[Basilisa Marie]

You need not see it as proof texting. If I were doing that I would also need to have taken a firm position in the debate. You seem to be assuming that I have.

 

Right, because posting a quote that's most obviously at home in the "well dressed" side of the argument without any context is totally an invitation for people to understand the nuances of your position. :rolleyes:  Come on, bro, you gotta give us more to work with. 



Plus the "wedding garment" is most often interpreted to be about baptism. So there. :P

[Nihil Obstat]

Right, because posting a quote that's most obviously at home in the "well dressed" side of the argument without any context is totally an invitation for people to understand the nuances of your position. :rolleyes: Come on, bro, you gotta give us more to work with.



Plus the "wedding garment" is most often interpreted to be about baptism. So there. :P

Come on, you think I actually read the Bible so shallowly?

[Lil Red]

I usually am too concerned about my own behavior and attire at Mass (and that of my children) to police or worry about anyone else's attire or behavior. 

[Credo in Deum]

I think dressing appropriately is not only a sign of respect for those you are meeting and yourself, but also an act of charity.  I would like to think most of us would dress nice when meeting a loved one, or even a leader of a nation -regardless of how much we may disagree with them.  For example I'm not very fond of Obama (nor was I of Bush), but if I was called to meet him I would try to dress as nice as possible out of respect for the office he holds.   With that said the point is I would try and if I couldn't meet the standards then I at least failed due to something out of my control.   I would expect a good family member and leader to understand that I tried and to have patience with me.  What I wouldn't do is use their understanding nature as an excuse for me to dress inappropriately or like a slob.

 

 

 

 

[Norseman82]

The problem with proof-texting (finding passages of scripture that supports whatever position you want to uphold.) is that for every quote you drag out to prove your point, someone else can drag out an equally valid one to prove theirs. There is also the question of translation and interpretation, understanding and communication. I still like using passages from scripture to express things, but I think this one is a little weak to support some kind of policy about what to wear to church. One must consider a lot more to this parable than just what people were wearing.

 

After all, the Bible also says.

 

When they entered, he looked at Eliab and thought, "Surely the LORD'S anointed is before Him." 7But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."  1 Sam 16:7

 

Now you respond with a quote that supports your position and then someone responds with another for theirs. This is really not a good way to dialogue. I like this article on proof-texting -- it kind of explains the practice in a simple way and encourages using scripture for dialogue instead.

The Problem with Proof Texting 

 

Yes, because I can drag out James 2:2-9 in rebuttal: 

 

2 For if there shall come into your assembly a man having a golden ring, in fine apparel; and there shall come in also a poor man in mean attire:

3 And you have respect to him that is clothed with the fine apparel and shall say to him: Sit thou here well: but say to the poor man: Stand thou there, or: Sit under my footstool:

4 Do you not judge within yourselves, and are become judges of unjust thoughts?

5 Hearken, my dearest brethren: Hath not God chosen the poor in this world, rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which God hath promised to them that love him?

6 But you have dishonoured the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you by might? And do not they draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme the good name that is invoked upon you?

8 If then you fulfil the royal law, according to the scriptures: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; you do well.

9 But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, being reproved by the law as transgressors.

 

(Douay-Rheims, coutresy of www.awmach.org)

[Benedictus]

 I was searching the net for Religious orders and their retreat schedules etc, anyhow i noticed most do require that guests, who are visiting wear appropriate clothing for celebration of the mass and in certain areas of the Monestary / Abbey ....

 

 

So what gives ?  Why is it Religious orders have dress codes for guests  and expect them to abide by the dress code,  but regular dioceses or the church in general does not ?

 

Now granted some cultures wear what they wear because that is all they can afford, or it is a custom to wear certain attire and is not considered offensive ( what examples there are i dont know )

 

But would it be so out of line for the Church to demand for the rest of us to not dress like we are going to the beach, the club, or etc.  Is it really out of line and absurd to issue and enforce a dress code rule,  I have a bad enough attention span as it is, but when a female comes in wearing a skirt that barely covers her or other such eye catching outfits. And why is it too much to ask the male counter part to not wear shorts and flip flops....

 

 

Why is there a difference between the way attire is approached with Catholics from Religious Orders and Dioceses ?

I think people should wear, in general, whatever they like and find suitable. I think it's the job of the parish or diocese to 'guide people' on modesty, basically inform people why a specific mode of dress is being suggested. However, I don't think people should be excluded unless they are disrupting the service or pose nude etc. I think a pastoral solution is better. I would also be concerned any stringent policies could target women, ethnic minorities or the poor (or people coming with an interest in the faith).

In terms of an abbey, and the guests going there. I think it's a bit different because the religious live there. It's their home and they abide by a rule and norms different to a parish, at least in many situations. As people are choosing to go as guests, and most people do not want to offend hosts, then advice on what they expect people to wear is a good thing.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Benedictus

[Ed Normile]

Dress Code For Going To Mass

 

That would be nice ....

 

 

Of course that would not be done as donations may go down if people could not show up in shorts and a t-shirt.

 

ed

[Ed Normile]

Come on, you think I actually read the Bible so shallowly?

 

Are we supposed to believe you read the Bible at all ....

 

 

:unsure:

 

ed

[Jaime]

I went to mass one time. I hadn't showered for three days and was wearing a torn t-shirt.  All of the people there were wearing tatters for clothes and were covered in mud and mud like substances.  None of them had bathed in weeks.  

 

Holiest most reverent mass I've ever attended

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

:proud:

[11] And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. [12] And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? But he was silent. [13] Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [14] For many are called, but few are chosen. 
 

 

The wedding garment talked of is a garment of praise and thanksgiving(gratitude), by the way. But you don't like my theology right?

 

And we need to pray as men of God to humbly appreciate the body of any women as Gods creation whether in a berker or semi naked, or even fully naked, actually i believe the pinnacle of all created flesh, for GOD acclaimed ( and not just said,) " Finally, flesh from my flesh, bone from my bone." Pretty good rap from GOD about the womens figure.

 

Respect that!

 

Jesus iz LORD!

Edited October 19, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Though i don't believe in world wide nudity, nore nudity or semi nudity during holy mass, though breast feeding over crying babies i prefer, though if world nudity happened i would pray to respect all human flesh as Gods wonderful creation. Though no pantaloons = no wallet = microchip for money. and i think an order has every right to have a dress standard, just as i have the right to ask someone to take off there shoes at my porch before entering my house, and if you feet are smelly i will be taking you to the bathroom to wash your feet and yes i have brand new socks for free. lol

Edited October 19, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[truthfinder]

The wedding garment talked of is a garment of praise and thanksgiving(gratitude), by the way. But you don't like my theology right?

 

And we need to pray as men of God to humbly appreciate the body of any women as Gods creation whether in a berker or semi naked, or even fully naked, actually i believe the pinnacle of all created flesh, for GOD acclaimed ( and not just said,) " Finally, flesh from my flesh, bone from my bone." Pretty good rap from GOD about the womens figure.

 

Respect that!

 

Jesus iz LORD!

 

Dude! what bible are you reading?  "Flesh of my flesh.." is what ADAM says! Genesis 2:23

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Dude! what bible are you reading?  "Flesh of my flesh.." is what ADAM says! Genesis 2:23

I thought yaweh said it?

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

lol, so, it was adam whom said that. I still think the womens body is the pinnacle of flesh creation. And to respect and admire it as such i'm trying to do.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[truthfinder]

lol, so, it was adam whom said that. I still think the womens body is the pinnacle of flesh creation. And to respect and admire it as such i'm trying to do.

I'll take that interpretation.

[Credo in Deum]

I went to mass one time. I hadn't showered for three days and was wearing a torn t-shirt. All of the people there were wearing tatters for clothes and were covered in mud and mud like substances. None of them had bathed in weeks.

Holiest most reverent mass I've ever attended

Were you doing missionary work?