Nihil Obstat Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You are making an argument where there is none. Where did the pope say that people in an invalid second marriage can receive communion? I must have missed it. If you can't show me where he said that then my original statement of "you guys are interpreting things like the media" stands. That is the only point I am trying to make--that some people are jumping to conclusions prematurely. The pope, no. We do not know precisely where he stands. Many bishops, and claiming the pope's blessing, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I didn't entirely understand the Holy Father's statement, I think in large part because it is a very rough translation, but it did seem to me that he said much more to chastise those in the Kasper camp than the Burke camp. I can see two reasons for this. One would be that he tends to be harder on those with whom he agrees than those with whom he disagrees, which would mean he sees more promise in the Kaspar proposal than I would like him to. The other is that he really finds it to be an offense against right reason and the Catholic faith. My hesitation with thinking its the latter is the lack of any public statements by our Holy Father distancing himself from Kasper and his proposal. However, I suppose he could have various reasons for this. It's a mess of a situation all around. But I have full faith that it will work itself out. We've all got to pray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I didn't entirely understand the Holy Father's statement, I think in large part because it is a very rough translation, but it did seem to me that he said much more to chastise those in the Kasper camp than the Burke camp. I can see two reasons for this. One would be that he tends to be harder on those with whom he agrees than those with whom he disagrees, which would mean he sees more promise in the Kaspar proposal than I would like him to. The other is that he really finds it to be an offense against right reason and the Catholic faith. My hesitation with thinking its the latter is the lack of any public statements by our Holy Father distancing himself from Kasper and his proposal. However, I suppose he could have various reasons for this. It's a mess of a situation all around. But I have full faith that it will work itself out. We've all got to pray. Any time I'm thinking the Church is going to hell in a hand basket, I remember this quote: Napoleon Bonaparte: “Your eminence, are you not aware that I have the power to destroy the Catholic Church?†Cardinal: “Your majesty, we, the Catholic clergy, have done our best to destroy the church for the last 1,800 years. We have not succeeded, and neither will you.†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 The pope, no. We do not know precisely where he stands. Many bishops, and claiming the pope's blessing, yes. Always helpful to state actual text with link to support what one is stating :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Always helpful to state actual text with link to support what one is stating :) What. that there are bishops supporting practices which undermine orthodox belief, and who claim the pope's support? Interview with Kasper: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-game-is-up-on-synod-and-communion.html Did you expect this controversy regarding your address to the Consistory? "I'm not naïve. I knew that there are other positions, but I didn't think that the debate would become, and now is shown to be also, without manners. Not one of my fellow Cardinals ever spoke to me. I, instead, [spoke] twice with the Holy Father. I agreed upon everything with him. He was in agreement. What can a cardinal do, except be with Pope? I am not the target, the target is another one." Is it Pope Francis? "Probably yes." What else do you say, finally, to your opponents? "They know that I have not done these things by myself. I agreed with the Pope, I spoke twice with him. He showed himself content [with it]. Now, they create this controversy. A Cardinal must be close to the Pope, by his side. The Cardinals are the Pope's cooperators." Kasper has claimed several times that he has the full support of Pope Francis. What precisely this support means to him is less clear. What it means to Pope Francis is not clear at all, but he says very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The sky is falling!! O NOES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) I think Pope Francis might be wise to my mind to avoid commenting on those involved in the Synod or what it is reported in some form of media as what they have had to say. The final sitting of the Synod in 2015 and the result will be submitted to him and then, after due consideration, he will have his quite public say. This recent sitting was supposed to be an open and quite free and honest discussion among those summoned to the Synod and as instructed by Pope Francis - and not checking out with Pope Francis his thoughts and then siding with the thoughts of Pope Francis .............if indeed this happened. Possibility: Perhaps Cardinal Kasper did speak with His Holiness about his own thoughts and Pope Francis did not pass any real comment one way or the other respecting Cardinal Kasper's comments as his thoughts to be shared in the recent Synod sitting. And this has been taken as agreement by Cardinal Kasper of his own thinking. Who knows! Truth of the matter probably is that any sort of spin can be put on what media is reporting.......and perhaps with a spin investment of their own. :stars: Edited October 23, 2014 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 That the media spin this is on their heads. That some cardinals most definitely implied that such spin would not be entirely inaccurate is on their own. More so because they're cardinals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Words of the highly imitable Robert Hugh Benson: The Catholic Church then is, and always will be, violent and intransigent when the rights of God are in question. She will be absolutely ruthless, for example, towards heresy, for heresy affects not personal matters on which Charity may yield, but a Divine right on which there must be no yielding. Yet, simultaneously, she will be infinitely kind towards the heretic, since a thousand human motives and circumstances may come in and modify his responsibility. At a word of repentance she will readmit his person into her treasury of souls, but not his heresy into her treasury of wisdom; she will strike his name eagerly and freely from her black list of the rebellious, but not his book from the pages of her Index. She exhibits meekness towards him and violence towards his error; since he is human, but her Truth is Divine. http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/benson-at-100-royal-catholic-church.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/benson-at-100-royal-catholic-church.html If I got all my information from that blog I don't think I'd be Catholic anymore. I have an extremely hard time seeing how it glorifies the church. It's like a TMZ for the religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 I did have a look at that blog a while back and perused it in general and decided I would not keep it on file as a resource, though I am quite unschooled. It was merely a personal choice for myself. I don't think that this means at all that absolutely everything on the blog is questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 If I got all my information from that blog I don't think I'd be Catholic anymore. I have an extremely hard time seeing how it glorifies the church. It's like a TMZ for the religious. I find, like many things, that with prudence and discernment it is a useful resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I actually look at the front page every now and then but it's obviously for people who were born before the 90's so that's about as far as I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 People use to speak ill of EWTN when Mother Angelica still ran the place because she didn't sugar coat things, and didn't mind pointing out when the Bishops did something wrong. Now that she's not on camera anymore and since EWTN is more mainstream that doesn't happen much anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 People use to speak ill of EWTN when Mother Angelica still ran the place because she didn't sugar coat things, and didn't mind pointing out when the Bishops did something wrong. Now that she's not on camera anymore and since EWTN is more mainstream that doesn't happen much anymore. There was nothing quite like a feisty nun telling off liberal bishops on live television every week, was there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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