Woman, 29, Will End Her Life In Nov. 1

[Guest]

Never said anyone here is wishing hell on Brittany. But if you don't think there are Christians and catholics all over calling her a coward and condemning her to hell you are living inside a box. And whether you like it or not I talk to God all the time about stuff and he answers. So again I will just shut up so I don't cause scandal and provoke the SUPER Catholic to come and burn me at the stake. Since they are the "true catholics".

Edited November 4, 2014 by Guest

[Credo in Deum]

Never said anyone here is wishing hell on Brittany. But if you don't think there are Christians and catholics all over calling her a coward and condemning her to hell you are living inside a box. And whether you like it or not I talk to God all the time about stuff and he answers. So again I will just shut up so I don't cause scandal and provke the SUPER Catholic to come and burn me at the stake.

 

Time to step back from the forum Josh and collect yourself.   No one here is denying that there are people who claim to be Catholic and who say things which are not in line with the Church.  Yet before you go calling them out you might want to think about how you also identify yourself as a Catholic and have said things which are not very Catholic. 

[Guest]

What have I said give me some examples?

Edited November 4, 2014 by Guest

[Guest]

Problem is so many Catholics and Christians are so self righteous and think of themselves so highly. They don't put themselves in other people's shoes and try to understand their pain and struggles. They are so caught up in the laws and rules of religion. And they use it to judge everyone else and make themselves feel good about how much better they are then everyone else. And then they use that pride to start rationalizing a judgemental and condescending attitude toward everyone else who aren't as perfect as they are and dont do everything just right as they do. Seeing how people have acted towards Brittany in this has really confirmed what I already knew to be true. But how sad this story and situation was just really makes it an eye opener for me. And it's funny because these people think they're walking with God and doing His will yet Jesus spoke out against them almost every chance he got. He made it clear prostitutes would see the kingdom of heaven before they ever would.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Guest

[Credo in Deum]

What have I said give me some examples?

 

You made a definitive statement that Brittany is in Heaven.  While you may think you are better because you judge her as worthy for Heaven while others on Facebook have judged her as worthy for Hell, the reality is both of you with your judgments have been uncharitable and not Catholic in the least.  Why?  Because Brittany very well could be in Purgatory and when Catholic's say she is in Hell then prayers are not said for her soul and when Catholics claim she is in Heaven prayers are likewise not said for her soul.  Both positions cut off the needed prayers poor Brittany could be getting while in Purgatory if she is there.    This is why we do not say where Brittany is, Josh!  This is why even the Church doesn't say unless someone has passed the canonization process, because if we declared these things like others do then the Church Suffering would be a sad sad place.  

[Guest]

I never said she was in 100 percent in Heaven. Yesterday I said she was with God. My understanding is if she's in purgatory then she is with God.

[Guest]

You made a definitive statement that Brittany is in Heaven. While you may think you are better because you judge her as worthy for Heaven while others on Facebook have judged her as worthy for Hell, the reality is both of you with your judgments have been uncharitable and not Catholic in the least. Why? Because Brittany very well could be in Purgatory and when Catholic's say she is in Hell then prayers are not said for her soul and when Catholics claim she is in Heaven prayers are likewise not said for her soul. Both positions cut off the needed prayers poor Brittany could be getting while in Purgatory if she is there. This is why we do not say where Brittany is, Josh! This is why even the Church doesn't say unless someone has passed the canonization process, because if we declared these things like others do then the Church Suffering would be a sad sad place.

Good post.

[Credo in Deum]

I never said she was in 100 percent in Heaven. Yesterday I said she was with God. My understanding is if she's in purgatory then she is with God.

 

Sorry then I was confused by your statement.  In purgatory one of the greatest sufferings is the souls separation from God and one of their greatest joys is knowing that one day they will be with Him.  When you said she is with God I took it as you saying she is in Heaven. 

 

Thank you for the clarification. 

[Guest]

And my mom was diagnosed with cancer in September. This story was very sad to me. Cancer is such a ugly thing and I never question God over it. But I think people like Brittany deserve the benefit of the doubt. And don't think it's unreasonable at all to believe and almost know that a loving God is gonna accept her with open arms.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Guest

[Credo in Deum]

And my mom was diagnosed with cancer in September. This story was really sad to me. Cancer is such a ugly thing and I never question God over it. But I think people like Brittany deserve the benefit of the doubt. And don't think it's unreasonable at all to believe and almost know that a loving God is gonna accept her with open arms.

 

My mother was also diagnosed with cancer; last week actually.  It's been a very a rough time especially since she was also laid-off last week.   I will keep your mother in my prayers.  Cancer is a terrible disease.  I have witnessed both my grandparents die of it.  They were like my second father and mother since they took care of my brothers and I when my parents divorced.  I personally think everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.  I know and believe God loves us all and that hope keeps me praying for everyone who has passed away.   It reminds me of a quote by Ven. Fulton J Sheen.   I love him very much if you haven't noticed yet, lol.   

 

Here is the quote:

 

“How God will judge my life I know not, but I trust he will see me with mercy and compassion. I am only certain there will be three surprises in Heaven. First of all, I will see some people whom I never expected to see. Second, there will be a number whom I expected to be there who will not be there. And - even relying on God’s mercy - the biggest surprise of all may be that I will be there. When the record of any human life is set down, there are three pairs of eyes who see it in a different light. 1. As I see it. 2. As others see it. 3. As God sees it.“ Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

[Guest]

Sorry about your mom and grandparents. Sad sad stuff. Really like that quote. Prayers.

[BarbTherese]

The subject of this thread would be a good opportunity for Catholics to point out that what Brittany has done is indeed grave matter including the fact that it might be scandal and also grave matter in this subject.  But for mortal sin, two other concurrent conditions are required and these do involve mitigation of free will where feelings, external pressures and perhaps even psychological factors have played a part in grave matter.  Therefore there are very real grounds to actively hope that Brittany's soul will be saved as only death in the state of unrepentant mortal sin can condemn a person to Hell.  Undoubtedly, a person anticipating painful suffering and death would be under the influence of feelings and even external pressure (impending painful suffering and death) which would diminish "personal freedom" and therefore in Brittany's case grave matter may not have been mortal sin.  We can point out too that only God is The Judge and that Scripture tells us "Judge not, that you may not be judged".  And "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy."

 

Jesus died for the whole world and so Catholics pray with Hope that all will be saved.  Very often in the Intercessions at Morning and Evening Prayer in the Divine Office, the final intercession is a prayer that all souls will be saved and so the Catholic Church remains Hopeful that all might be saved since Jesus did not die in vain.  The Loving Justice and Mercy of God is in an ideal sense a great and totally unfathomable mystery to all Catholics.

Gaudium et Spes Pastoral Constitution on The Church http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_cons_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html  "45. While helping the world and receiving many benefits from it, the Church has a single intention: that God's kingdom may come, and that the salvation of the whole human race may come to pass."

 

 

This very very sad and quite traumatic event in the very young life of Brittany could have been an opportunity to instruct others in the Truths of The Faith and to show the Face of The Church as merciful and loving and towards all without exceptions - and without sacrificing one iota the Moral Law. Pope Francis has just recently, I believe, released a book "The Church of Mercy " http://www.amazon.com/The-Church-Mercy-Pope-Francis/dp/0829441700
 

 

http://www.catholicity.com/catechism/mortal_and_venial.html

Unintentional ignorance can diminish or remove grave imputability. However, no one is ignorant of the moral law written on the heart. Many factors (feelings, passions, external pressure, emotional disorders) can also diminish personal freedom. Sins of malice (a deliberate choice of evil) are the greatest.

 

 

 

Review of the book "A Church of Mercy"

"A magnificent book, bursting with profound spiritual insights, from a man who has quickly become one of the greatest spiritual teachers of our time." --James Martin, SJ, author of Jesus: A Pilgrimage

In the year since he was elected, Pope Francis’s simple message of mercy, service, and renewal has spread to every corner of the world. Through his gentle demeanor, selfless actions, and welcoming call for service to others, Pope Francis has captured the attention of a world longing for an authentic message of hope—we want to hear what he has to say.

Collected from Pope Francis’s speeches, homilies, and papers presented during the first year of his papacy, The Church of Mercy is the first Vatican-authorized book detailing his vision for the Catholic Church. From how to be citizens of the world to answering God’s call for evangelization, Pope Francis's deep wisdom reminds us that the Church must move beyond its own walls and joyfully bring God's mercy wherever suffering, division, or injustice exists.

Named TIME Magazine’s 2013 “Person of the Year,” Pope Francis is helping the Church continue toward an authentic Christianity that is faithful to the Gospel and resonant with the world’s greatest needs. The Church of Mercy encourages each of us to ignite the flame within to help share the light of Christ and revitalize the Church.

 

 

 

[BarbTherese]

Woops! "The Church of Mercy" was released back in April apparently.

[Guest]

Article from Time: What we can learn from the falling man.

The past few days have been filled with news that terminally ill 29-year-old, Brittany Maynard, has ended her life with medication prescribed by her physician. She did so under legal physician assisted suicide provisions in the state of Oregon. Had Maynard not taken the medication, she would not have lived much longer, and the final moments of her life would likely have been painfully debilitating, as her brain cancer took over.

In the weeks leading up to her death, Maynard succeeded in not only completing her “bucket list” but also in sparking a national discussion on “death with dignity,” or what is commonly called physician assisted suicide.

Admittedly, I thought the matter was settled in my mind before Brittany’s story became a daily topic. Until Brittany I was absolutely, positively against the idea that physician assisted suicide should be legal. However—and here’s another of Brittany’s accomplishments these past few weeks—I don’t feel the way I did a few weeks ago.

Part of my shift has been because of the discussion and reasoning that came from Brittany herself, and part has been from some of the judgmental condemnation I’ve seen of Brittany online—judgmental attitudes that caused me to re-think my association with that side of the issue. However, the real shift in my thinking came from sitting in my rocking chair next to my wood stove late in the evening, watching a program about iconic photography from the terrorist attacks of 9-11.

One of the most recognized images from the terrorist attacks is an image that has been called “The Falling Man” by Richard Drew, and I’m sure you probably recognize it. The image is of an unidentified man who was trapped on one of the upper levels of the Trade Center, and ultimately made the decision to jump to his death instead of being burned alive or suffocated by smoke.

I can’t imagine making that choice.I’ve tried, but I can’t.

There are no exact numbers, but some have estimated that upwards of 200 people made that difficult choice—choosing to jump instead of dying by fire or smoke.

On one hand, one could say these people took their own lives—that they committed suicide—but that wouldn’t really be fair, would it? NYC officials didn’t think so either, and had their deaths classified as homicide by blunt force trauma instead of suicide. A spokesman for the NYC medical examiners office stated:

“Jumping indicates a choice, and these people did not have that choice,” she said. “That is why the deaths were ruled homicide, because the actions of other people caused them to die…”

The Falling Man, and others like him, didn’t have a real choice to live or die—they only had a choice in which way they died: smoke and fire, or by falling. For their children to have to walk through life saying, “my dad committed suicide” is less than fair and completely untrue—they didn’t choose to die (the very definition of suicide), they just chose howthey died.

This is precisely why I’m losing my patience with my fellow Christians who are condemning Brittany Maynard for her decision to take the pills her doctor prescribed her. Brittany didn’t wake up one morning and say “I hate my life and I’m going to kill myself,” just like those who jumped on 9-11 didn’t step up to the ledge and jump because they were in debt or trapped in a bad marriage.

It seems disingenuous to force someone to choose between two ways of dying and then turn on them in judgement for picking the least painful of the two options.

Like the 9-11 jumpers, Brittany didn’t have a choice in dying, she only had a choice in how she died. You see, there are people like Brittany—terminally ill with imminent death looming—who are essentially trapped in a burning building from which there is no way of escaping with their lives. For some of these people, the idea of being burned alive or having to inhale smoke until death overcomes them becomes less appealing than stepping up to the ledge and accepting a quicker, less painful fate.

In all the years since 9-11, I’ve never once heard a Christian speak up in judgement and condemnation over the 9-11 jumpers. I’ve never heard someone say they sinned because they “hastened death instead of accepting God’s timing.” I’ve never heard anyone say that failing to condemn their choice is a “slippery slope that could send the message that suicide is okay.” All I’ve ever heard about the 9-11 jumpers is how difficult their choice must have been, and how sad it is that their lives were taken by terrorism.

Why then, should we say those things about Brittany—or those who choose to die more quickly and less painfully in response to a terminal disease—a death sentence that becomes their burning building? It’s not a choice to die (suicide). It’s just a choice to pick the most painless way to die.

Christians should be the people who are the least judgmental and the most compassionate—the ones who recognize the truth that while the 9-11 jumpers didn’t commit suicide, Brittany Maynard didn’t, either.

She died because of terminal cancer, and that is very, very sad.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Guest

[Credo in Deum]

Article from Time: What we can learn from the falling man.

The past few days have been filled with news that terminally ill 29-year-old, Brittany Maynard, has ended her life with medication prescribed by her physician. She did so under legal physician assisted suicide provisions in the state of Oregon. Had Maynard not taken the medication, she would not have lived much longer, and the final moments of her life would likely have been painfully debilitating, as her brain cancer took over.

In the weeks leading up to her death, Maynard succeeded in not only completing her “bucket list” but also in sparking a national discussion on “death with dignity,” or what is commonly called physician assisted suicide.

Admittedly, I thought the matter was settled in my mind before Brittany’s story became a daily topic. Until Brittany I was absolutely, positively against the idea that physician assisted suicide should be legal. However—and here’s another of Brittany’s accomplishments these past few weeks—I don’t feel the way I did a few weeks ago.

Part of my shift has been because of the discussion and reasoning that came from Brittany herself, and part has been from some of the judgmental condemnation I’ve seen of Brittany online—judgmental attitudes that caused me to re-think my association with that side of the issue. However, the real shift in my thinking came from sitting in my rocking chair next to my wood stove late in the evening, watching a program about iconic photography from the terrorist attacks of 9-11.

One of the most recognized images from the terrorist attacks is an image that has been called “The Falling Man” by Richard Drew, and I’m sure you probably recognize it. The image is of an unidentified man who was trapped on one of the upper levels of the Trade Center, and ultimately made the decision to jump to his death instead of being burned alive or suffocated by smoke.

I can’t imagine making that choice.I’ve tried, but I can’t.

There are no exact numbers, but some have estimated that upwards of 200 people made that difficult choice—choosing to jump instead of dying by fire or smoke.

On one hand, one could say these people took their own lives—that they committed suicide—but that wouldn’t really be fair, would it? NYC officials didn’t think so either, and had their deaths classified as homicide by blunt force trauma instead of suicide. A spokesman for the NYC medical examiners office stated:

“Jumping indicates a choice, and these people did not have that choice,” she said. “That is why the deaths were ruled homicide, because the actions of other people caused them to die…”

The Falling Man, and others like him, didn’t have a real choice to live or die—they only had a choice in which way they died: smoke and fire, or by falling. For their children to have to walk through life saying, “my dad committed suicide” is less than fair and completely untrue—they didn’t choose to die (the very definition of suicide), they just chose howthey died.

This is precisely why I’m losing my patience with my fellow Christians who are condemning Brittany Maynard for her decision to take the pills her doctor prescribed her. Brittany didn’t wake up one morning and say “I hate my life and I’m going to kill myself,” just like those who jumped on 9-11 didn’t step up to the ledge and jump because they were in debt or trapped in a bad marriage.

It seems disingenuous to force someone to choose between two ways of dying and then turn on them in judgement for picking the least painful of the two options.

Like the 9-11 jumpers, Brittany didn’t have a choice in dying, she only had a choice in how she died. You see, there are people like Brittany—terminally ill with imminent death looming—who are essentially trapped in a burning building from which there is no way of escaping with their lives. For some of these people, the idea of being burned alive or having to inhale smoke until death overcomes them becomes less appealing than stepping up to the ledge and accepting a quicker, less painful fate.

In all the years since 9-11, I’ve never once heard a Christian speak up in judgement and condemnation over the 9-11 jumpers. I’ve never heard someone say they sinned because they “hastened death instead of accepting God’s timing.” I’ve never heard anyone say that failing to condemn their choice is a “slippery slope that could send the message that suicide is okay.” All I’ve ever heard about the 9-11 jumpers is how difficult their choice must have been, and how sad it is that their lives were taken by terrorism.

Why then, should we say those things about Brittany—or those who choose to die more quickly and less painfully in response to a terminal disease—a death sentence that becomes their burning building? It’s not a choice to die (suicide). It’s just a choice to pick the most painless way to die.

Christians should be the people who are the least judgmental and the most compassionate—the ones who recognize the truth that while the 9-11 jumpers didn’t commit suicide, Brittany Maynard didn’t, either.

She died because of terminal cancer, and that is very, very sad.

Wow the logical loops one has to go through to have the audacity to compare these two events is insane. Brittany was not put in a situation which forced her to choose between two types of deaths. She introduced the option of suicide as opposed to dying a natural death. Those in 911 did not choose between a natural death and an unnatural death, but rather an unnatural death was forced upon them by the terrorists which is why they were guilty of homocide. Cancer didn't force Brittany to commit suicied.

.