Centering Prayer

[Ice_nine]

Does anyone here know a lot about centering prayer? I've skimmed it and it seems interesting, but I'm getting a lot of "zomg heresy" vibes from some catholic folks on the interwebs. Is the Jesus prayer a centering prayer? Is centering prayer one of those Eastern things that us Westerners shouldn't practice because we are too stoopid?

[Basilisa Marie]

Idk, I think it depends on if it's done in an appropriate way. I know it's popular with weird theology folks who like things that aren't orthodox, but it's not inherently bad (again, if done in a certain way). 

 

It's basically silent meditation with a particular word that you use to help reel in your train of thought so you can be open to "listening" to God and practicing detachment from your self.  Some people argue it's based on monastic contemplative prayer, other people think it's modern people trying to shoehorn Eastern spiritual practices into Christianity. It can be really easy to get self-absorbed if centering prayer isn't done well, because the way some people talk about it makes it sound like the focus is on your self and figuring out the way God is working in you (the focus being on the you) instead of detaching from your self and trying to be open to God's will. The Jesus Prayer can be used as a kind of centering prayer.  But overall you have to be careful because so much of the pro-centering prayer is steeped in weird New Age-y stuff, which as we all know, is bad.

 

It's probably not good for someone who is open to weird new age stuff, or without a trustworthy spiritual director. 

[Amppax]

Here's a good take on Centering Prayer http://spiritualdirection.com/2014/01/10/can-centering-prayer-be-redeemed

[Benedictus]

It's just a technique to become more calm and reduce thought distractions. It's a way into contemplation, and shouldn't be an end in itself. It definately shouldn't shut God off, just the junk we think about. Doing Lectio Divina or other practices is better, at least in my experience, to move on with. The World Community of Christian Meditation is another group you might want to look at. Julian Meetings is another. I also use Pray as you go, a Jesuit ignatian ministry. http://www.pray-as-you-go.org/home/

 

[Ice_nine]

My prayers are so disorganized and all over the place. Partly because my mind is pretty frenetically jumping all over the place most of the time, which is why I find this style attractive. I'm trying to do parts of the divine office, but I feel more like I'm reading than praying at this point. I feel the need to simplify thangs u kno?

 

But thanks y'all for the thoughts

[Tony]

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/46981-centering-prayer/

 

(I think this was originally called "Centering prayer, I think it ruined my life" or something like that. Phatmass deleted subtitles a while back

[Amppax]

I should expand on my previous comment. I would see various problems with Centering Prayer as a whole, but, like the article I posted, in a very narrow sense it is redeemable. So, what are the problems? Well, I would say twofold. 1st would be an echo of what Basilisa said in her first post, the typical audience for Centering Prayer, the "weird theology" folks. For example, I did a quick search for centering prayer teachers in my area. I found one whose other specialties include Native American Spirituality, the Enneagram, and other not so Catholic things. Now, this is hearsay evidence, but it does point to the wider trend in the Centering Prayer movement of incorporating New Age or Eastern religious practices. So that's one problem, the general milieu. 

 

Another problem is a specific aspect of what is usually taught. Typically it is taught so that the goal is a complete dismissal of all thought. This is NOT something that is part the spiritual tradition of Catholicism, regardless of what Centering Prayer practitioners claim. This is something more akin to what is taught in Transcendental Meditation (Hindu/Buddist form of meditation) than anything from the Christian tradition. They claim the backing of the Eastern practice of hesychasm, of which I am mostly ignorant, but from what I know it is not the same sort of practice. This sort of prayer seems to be simple Eastern meditation (which, incidentally, is almost the opposite of what meditation has meant in Christian tradition) disguised with some Catholic additions. 

 

However, now that I've criticized it, I'll be a little bit more positive. I was recently introduced to a prayer, which did use certain breathing techniques and did focus on repitition of certain words. The difference? Well, the goal was to meditate, which in Christian terms more often means ponder than empty your mind, on Christ's passion. So the goal was to use a word or phrase to direct the mind to a mystery of Christ's life, like we should do when we pray the rosary. 

 

Another example is found at this link:http://www.carmelites.net/multimedia/the-daily-disconnect-podcast-january-11-2014/

Edited October 31, 2014 by Amppax

[veritasluxmea]

Maybe you'd find aspiration prayers during the day helpful? 

 

http://catholicism.about.com/od/prayers/g/Ejaculation.htm

 

I'd avoid centering prayer just because of it's New Age/dissenting nuns connection. There are Ignatian ways of prayer called meditation and contemplation which are kind of similar. 

 

http://www.ignatianspirituality.com/ignatian-prayer/the-what-how-why-of-prayer/praying-with-scripture/

[Benedictus]

I should expand on my previous comment. I would see various problems with Centering Prayer as a whole, but, like the article I posted, in a very narrow sense it is redeemable. So, what are the problems? Well, I would say twofold. 1st would be an echo of what Basilisa said in her first post, the typical audience for Centering Prayer, the "weird theology" folks. For example, I did a quick search for centering prayer teachers in my area. I found one whose other specialties include Native American Spirituality, the Enneagram, and other not so Catholic things. Now, this is hearsay evidence, but it does point to the wider trend in the Centering Prayer movement of incorporating New Age or Eastern religious practices. So that's one problem, the general milieu. 

 

Another problem is a specific aspect of what is usually taught. Typically it is taught so that the goal is a complete dismissal of all thought. This is NOT something that is part the spiritual tradition of Catholicism, regardless of what Centering Prayer practitioners claim. This is something more akin to what is taught in Transcendental Meditation (Hindu/Buddist form of meditation) than anything from the Christian tradition. They claim the backing of the Eastern practice of hesychasm, of which I am mostly ignorant, but from what I know it is not the same sort of practice. This sort of prayer seems to be simple Eastern meditation (which, incidentally, is almost the opposite of what meditation has meant in Christian tradition) disguised with some Catholic additions. 

 

However, now that I've criticized it, I'll be a little bit more positive. I was recently introduced to a prayer, which did use certain breathing techniques and did focus on repitition of certain words. The difference? Well, the goal was to meditate, which in Christian terms more often means ponder than empty your mind, on Christ's passion. So the goal was to use a word or phrase to direct the mind to a mystery of Christ's life, like we should do when we pray the rosary. 

 

Another example is found at this link:http://www.carmelites.net/multimedia/the-daily-disconnect-podcast-january-11-2014/

 

As with everything it comes down to discernment and taking what's good and ignoring what's not. My view is it's not a movement that claims to be a bedrock of Catholicism, so it is what it is. 
I think that focus comes from a misunderstanding of language, a difference in adapting between tradition/ teachers. There's probably some ignorance as well. The 'empty the mind stuff' or 'sweeping it clean' is a Buddhist meditation focus, especially Zen and Insight meditation. The idea within Transcendental Meditation, as far as I know, is to empty the mind (or self) so that Gods consciousness can replace it (that is, replace the ego and trivial parts). But there is, especially by secondary teachers, a focus on emptiness. A lot of secular meditation, especially adopted by Psychologists and other teachers, is to empty the mind to encourage calmness and reduce anxiety. They often want people to clear bad thought processes etc. If people aren't grounded in a religious or spiritual tradition I think they end up teaching and picking up a mix match of ideas and approaches that aren't always helpful to pass on.

I think where Centering prayer can go wrong is to misunderstand certain aspects of contemplation where the aim is to not 'think' but to rest in the presence of God, as a communion with the divine. So the person would not have concepts or ideas but a sense of peace, calm, love, consolation etc. A relationship without form. But in passing this teaching on, especially to people who don't believe it or understand it (or adapt it to their own tradition/belief) causes it to get messed up. it can end up as being taught as simply 'not thinking' and this is obviously a mistake.

 

[Benedictus]

My prayers are so disorganized and all over the place. Partly because my mind is pretty frenetically jumping all over the place most of the time, which is why I find this style attractive. I'm trying to do parts of the divine office, but I feel more like I'm reading than praying at this point. I feel the need to simplify thangs u kno?

 

But thanks y'all for the thoughts

 

The divine office can be hard to keep going alone. I think it works better as more of a community based thing. Sadly most catholic parishes don't meet to pray it. I sometimes attend an Anglican parish for morning and or evening prayer, purely for this aspect. Maybe also consider Taize style prayer events, which can be good. Aside from that I'd suggest going slowly (esp if building up concentration) or simply do practices that work better for your personality, mind, situation. I find mental images or imagination, for prayer or bible reading, work better for me than some other practices. I like process and 'being in the situation' as it helps focus. Maybe audio parts, or whatever, are better for others.

Early morning or and late evening is a good time for me. I find a candle (or dimmed light), some bread and wine, a cross and a bible reading can do wonders (plus a nice view if you've got it). That and walks in the park before the day gets going, focusing on God in my life and those I love (maybe also with a rosary if I have time) can work far better than sitting down for an hour trying to wrestle with a practice that isn't doing it for me. I feel like I get into contemplation without needing to fight myself to do it, which I find I do if I do sit down and do certain interiority practces or devotions. I'd never have made a good Buddhist :smokey:
 

[An Historian]

I wouldn't waste time with it, to be honest.  To develop mental prayer there is a veritable treasure trove of sound, orthodox and tradiitional Catholic works that one can have recourse too.  Off the top of my head, Father Gabriel of Saint Mary Magdalene's Little Catechism of the Life of Prayer is a fantastic and simple explanation of mental prayer according to the Teresian method.  I can't seem to find a link to it online but I have the PDF file saved on my computer if anyone would like it.  Saint Alphonsus Maria de Liguori has written several treatises on mental prayer and his method can be found in several of his works available online.  Rev. Father Frederick Faber, in his work on Growth in Holiness, which is also available online, contains a perfect explanation of both the Ignatian Method and the Oratorian/Sulpician Methods of mental prayer.  Then there's the entire Lectio Divina tradition of the monastics.

 

Like I said, there's sound, orthodox Catholic works and methods available for us to turn to.

[Graciela]

I get rather vexed when I see Centering Prayer labelled as new age or non-orthodox and non-Christian, because such accusations reflect a ;amentable lack of knowledge about Centering Prayer and Contemplative Outreach, the organization that offers workshops and retreats and educational materials about it.

 

It is not difficult to find out that "Centering Prayer" as a method was actually publicized by Fr. Thomas Keating, a Trappist monk, and some of his fellow monks, and is based upon the instructions found in the 14th century Christian spiritual classic called "The Cloud of Unknowing," written by a monk in England as instruction for younger monks.  Fr. Keating and his fellows  were concerned that so many young people in the 1960s were turning to Buddhist or Hindu meditation, without knowing that there was a tradition of apophatic prayer/meditation within the Christian tradition.  (Apophatic versus kataphatic prayer styles are parallel streams in the history of Christian prayer, and some people are more drawn to one or the other.)

 

I suggest reading "The Cloud of Unknowing" and then one of Father Keathing's early books in which he teaches the same method for modern folks' use.  The link between the two is clear,

 

Of course, non-vocal prayer and mental prayer have at various times been viewed with suspicion in the Church. Even St. Teresa of Avila was suspected of quietism. But this same saint advised her nuns "pray as you can, not as you can't." For some folks, reciting rote prayers, or using mental images, such as Ignatian prayer suggests, is not a way for them to pray.  Thank God, we have a tradition with enough prayer options for all of us.

 

 

 

 

[Amppax]

 

As with everything it comes down to discernment and taking what's good and ignoring what's not. My view is it's not a movement that claims to be a bedrock of Catholicism, so it is what it is. 
I think that focus comes from a misunderstanding of language, a difference in adapting between tradition/ teachers. There's probably some ignorance as well. The 'empty the mind stuff' or 'sweeping it clean' is a Buddhist meditation focus, especially Zen and Insight meditation. The idea within Transcendental Meditation, as far as I know, is to empty the mind (or self) so that Gods consciousness can replace it (that is, replace the ego and trivial parts). But there is, especially by secondary teachers, a focus on emptiness. A lot of secular meditation, especially adopted by Psychologists and other teachers, is to empty the mind to encourage calmness and reduce anxiety. They often want people to clear bad thought processes etc. If people aren't grounded in a religious or spiritual tradition I think they end up teaching and picking up a mix match of ideas and approaches that aren't always helpful to pass on.

I think where Centering prayer can go wrong is to misunderstand certain aspects of contemplation where the aim is to not 'think' but to rest in the presence of God, as a communion with the divine. So the person would not have concepts or ideas but a sense of peace, calm, love, consolation etc. A relationship without form. But in passing this teaching on, especially to people who don't believe it or understand it (or adapt it to their own tradition/belief) causes it to get messed up. it can end up as being taught as simply 'not thinking' and this is obviously a mistake.

 

Thanks for the correction regarding Transcendental Meditation vs. Buddhist. 

[Gabriela]

Pope Benedict XVI says in "Light of the World" (his interview with Peter Seewald) that Christian centering prayer is fine, because it doesn't attempt to "empty the mind" or focus on one's "center", as Eastern meditation does. Rather, it uses words (like the Jesus prayer) or images (like icons) to focus one's mind—whole being, really—entirely on Jesus.

 

Benny approved of that, so I'd say it's AOK. Just make sure that, wherever you go, that's what they're not doing, and not Buddhist meditation.

[Kia ora]

when people here speak about buddhist meditation, have they actually tried it? there are actually various forms of it.

 

or is this something like 'i heard someone say that about it'? is it some kind of 'theology by pop culture diffusion' thing, like the bad joke about the buddhist who goes to a hot dog stand and asks for the vendor to make him one with everything?

 

emptying the mind could well be applied to christian meditation, emptying the mind of all distractions, desires, frustrations. the context in which such a phrase is used is super important. 

[marigold]

when people here speak about buddhist meditation, have they actually tried it? there are actually various forms of it.

 

or is this something like 'i heard someone say that about it'? is it some kind of 'theology by pop culture diffusion' thing, like the bad joke about the buddhist who goes to a hot dog stand and asks for the vendor to make him one with everything?

 

emptying the mind could well be applied to christian meditation, emptying the mind of all distractions, desires, frustrations. the context in which such a phrase is used is super important. 

 

Hahaha!

 

Pope Benedict XVI says in "Light of the World" (his interview with Peter Seewald) that Christian centering prayer is fine, because it doesn't attempt to "empty the mind" or focus on one's "center", as Eastern meditation does. Rather, it uses words (like the Jesus prayer) or images (like icons) to focus one's mind—whole being, really—entirely on Jesus.

 

Benny approved of that, so I'd say it's AOK. Just make sure that, wherever you go, that's what they're not doing, and not Buddhist meditation.

 

Can we talk about why folks are cherry-picking things from Orthodox tradition and using them to suit their own ends? Neither the Jesus Prayer nor icons are tools for meditation in any of the senses talked about here.

 

:unsure:

[An Historian]

when people here speak about buddhist meditation, have they actually tried it? there are actually various forms of it.

 

or is this something like 'i heard someone say that about it'? is it some kind of 'theology by pop culture diffusion' thing, like the bad joke about the buddhist who goes to a hot dog stand and asks for the vendor to make him one with everything?

 

emptying the mind could well be applied to christian meditation, emptying the mind of all distractions, desires, frustrations. the context in which such a phrase is used is super important. 

 

This is pretty much alien to the Christian spiritual tradition.  Christians don't empty themselves in meditation.  They give themselves in meditation.  We give our distractions, desires and, frustrations to God.  It's not about focusing our mind on a specific subject.  A man that spends an half hour focusing his attention would be better spent offering his inattention to God.  He'd accomplish more in that half hour than the other man would accomplish in ten years.

[Kia ora]

We give our distractions, desires and, frustrations to God.

 

 

but what is emptying if not kenosis? what is kenosis if not giving the self to the other?

 

 

 

[An Historian]

but what is emptying if not kenosis? what is kenosis if not giving the self to the other?

 

And that self-emptying isn't accomplished by pretending that we essentially don't exist.  God became man, and came to us on the terms of the Incarnation.  We're real, living, breathing and unique individuals, and God relates to us all in this unique way.  Our worries, our frustrations, our fears, our hopes, our dreams, our loves, our hatreds, our everything... He wants us to take it all and come to Him about it.  Yes, we surrender ourselves, we place it all at his feet.  But it takes an act of ours to place it at his feet.  The divinization that we experience in our relationship with God through His grace and mental prayer will not be distinct and separate from our real lives.  It animates us, it transforms us into Christ, and it effects a real influence on us.

 

All this modern talk of "emptying the mind", etc., simply comes across to me as creating a separation between man and grace, between a man and the transformation God effects in us.  It appears to create a little compartment in us for God, which restricts Him there.

 

I don't know how orthodox it is.  I'll leave that up to the more capable judgement of others.  But I will say again that there are already tried an tested methods of mental prayer that have been long practised by generations of saints.  At the very least have recourse to an established practise before giving it up for this centering prayer stuff.

[Gabriela]

My mother is a die-hard transcendental meditationist, and has been for decades. She paid for me to go learn it. The guy gave me a "mantra" (some nonsense word) to focus on while meditating, so that I could "empty my mind" of all else. Once that had happened, I was to "let the word go" and just kind of "float in consciousness", with an "empty mind". I tried this, but I was young and impatient and had "monkey mind", so I didn't last long.

 

My brother is a Buddhist doctor of acupuncture who received his degree in Eastern medicine at a Chinese school in Austin, Texas. He meditates several times a day and spends several weeks a year at Buddhist meditation centers. I once went to his local center in Asheville, North Carolina, and again the goal was to "empty my mind", though this time via my breath, without a mantra. I struggled with this, too, and my brother told me that, if it would help, I could focus on a candle flame or a mandala. I liked mandalas, so I did that. It didn't last long either.

 

Next, I started reading Christian works on prayer, and even wrote some original research on prayer. The definition of "centering prayer", I found, isn't agreed on across Christian denominations, and even within denominations, there can be confusion/disagreement about what specific behaviors the phrase "centering prayer" names. But in my experience, it has been focusing on either a word or image that "centers one in Christ" rather than in some created object or in oneself or in "nothingness". And in my experience, that is the main difference between Christian centering prayer and all these other kinds of meditation: The "center" for TM or Buddhists is nothingness/consciousness/the self, whereas for Christians, it is Christ.

 

I still have "monkey mind", so I'm not some expert on centering prayer. But this is what I understand of it.