Benedictus Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 If people with SSA want to follow church teaching on sex matters, all well and good. They should be supported, just like anyone else, to do it in a healthy and mature way. It's debatable if the support is really there. But making claims about various research and treatments, motivated by religious convictions, go beyond this. These things are often dressed up like they're a doctrinal matter when they aren't Priests and others now get specialist help on how they approach and manage celibacy in a positive and life giving way. Lay people are left to mostly work it out by themselves, at most through a confessional (if they go beyond the shopping list mentality). Not enough people have spiritual direction or access to networks that aren't built around managing failure. Celibacy is viewed as a negative, a means of control, even by some who live it! It should be more positive, but it can't be transformed without more ground work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I believe it's time we shift the focus of this discussion since I think we've exhausted the sexual orientation side of it. I think it is clearly true that the traditional Catholic line does require great personal sacrifice, contrary to a rather easier way out that does please the world.I agree with this. I think there is a huge problem today that quick easy human fixes are going to solve issues which deal with the sacred (Liturgy, Marriage, Communion, etc) . The Prodigal Sons of this age no longer want to accept living in the Father's house as the condition to having access to the benefits of His estate. Rather they want to be able to receive all of the benefits of the Father's estate while still living in their own separate houses. It appears most do not want to foster the virtue of detachment but rather a spirit of accommodation, which is a spirit that will not create souls who are willing to give their life for Christ especially if it requires hard work. We have replaced the Devout Life for the Effeminate Life aka a life without the Cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 http://www.narth.org/docs/innate.html Wasn't it Christ Himself who claimed that He came for us disordered human beings when He said, "They that are well have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. For I came not to call the just, but sinners." Heterosexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals, mentally ill, physically ill, and spiritually ill; all of fallen mankind is called to acknowledge their disorders and accept the healing power which is Christ Himself. That's the beauty of our God is we do not need to be perfect or normal in order to come to Him since it is our fallen nature which makes Him come to us! He is not sitting afar-off waiting for us to be perfect before we can approach Him. On the contrary it is our fallen disordered natures which should prompt us to have the greatest hope and confidence that He is closer to us than He would be if we had no disorders at all! There is no need to bring yourself to Christ since He is already here and constantly with us. We need only to accept Him into our Hearts (primarily by the way of the Sacraments). LOL You do realise that NARTH is not a reputable organisation? Also do you think it's a coincidence that all the people associated with NARTH have conservative religious beliefs about homosexuality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Historian Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Aragorn, in light of all the time I spent in college studying sociology, psychology and psychiatric counselling, well, I think that gives me a degree of competency on this subject. Do not be so quick to dismiss the contributions of others. I'll address the rest of your post shortly. I am currently recovering from surgery and cannot adequately reply on my Samsung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Aragorn, in light of all the time I spent in college studying sociology, psychology and psychiatric counselling, well, I think that gives me a degree of competency on this subject. Do not be so quick to dismiss the contributions of others. I'll address the rest of your post shortly. I am currently recovering from surgery and cannot adequately reply on my Samsung. No offence, but I did a few sociology and psychology units in my undergraduate too. I'm an English and Theology teacher, still not qualified to hand out medical diagnoses. If you're actually a qualified practitioner then great, but doing a few units of psych at university doesn't make you an authority. Anyway, I look forward to hearing what you have to say and wish you a speedy recovery from your surgery :) Also, in regards to the above, there is a massive difference between saying everyone is "sick" from sin in a metaphorical sense and actually saying that homosexuality is a treatable sickness. The two aren't equivalent, and Bp. Schneider is advocating the second position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Your poor theology students. (;¬_¬) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Your poor theology students. (;¬_¬) What makes you say that? I don't believe you and I have ever had a theological discussion, nor do I believe you've ever sat in on one of my classes. Does believing Bp. Schneider's comments are insensitive and incorrect make me a bad teacher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Your comments about traditionalists do not inspire much confidence, as far as I am concerned. Says something about your character imo, and implies other positions as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Your comments about traditionalists do not inspire much confidence, as far as I am concerned. Says something about your character imo, and implies other positions as well. I really think you should refrain from judging my professional competence from an exchange on an internet forum. It's inappropriate and offensive. I am an orthodox Catholic (sure, I struggle, don't we all), a good teacher, and I try to inspire a love of Christ and the Church in my students. I find you insinuating otherwise, without any good reason or evidence by the way, to be really insulting and I'm kindly asking you not to. My comments on traditionalists come from years of experience in the traditional movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Fun. You get to rant about those trads who go around judging and hating gays, then you also get to be all offended when I think that reflects poorly on you. Fine, have it your way. But I sure hope you keep that trad bashing out of the classroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragon Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Fun. You get to rant about those trads who go around judging and hating gays, then you also get to be all offended when I think that reflects poorly on you. Fine, have it your way. But I sure hope you keep that trad bashing out of the classroom. Oy vey. I don't 'trad bash' in the classroom because it never comes up. Your brand of myopic and backwards fundamentalism is irrelevant to 99.99% of people. Thank God this experiment in regression seems to be coming to an end under Pope Francis. If only Malta had enough room for all of you. Good bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Oy vey. I don't 'trad bash' in the classroom because it never comes up. Your brand of myopic and backwards fundamentalism is irrelevant to 99.99% of people. Thank God this experiment in regression seems to be coming to an end under Pope Francis. If only Malta had enough room for all of you. Good bye. Lovely. I think my perspective on you has been fully vindicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Oy vey. I don't 'trad bash' in the classroom because it never comes up. Your brand of myopic and backwards fundamentalism is irrelevant to 99.99% of people. Thank God this experiment in regression seems to be coming to an end under Pope Francis. If only Malta had enough room for all of you. Good bye.It's a sad day when the comments from someone who identifies as a Catholic are similar to the comments orthodox Catholics receive from secularists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Even Pope Francis has highlighted the problems posed by some who get stuck in traditionalist and liberal factions. So to be exasperated at times seems reasonable. I think we could all spot some trends and be critical of them at times. I think it unfair to make generalisations, but if they happen they should be called out in an equal way. Aragon - If you challenge an opinion on here (not even a doctrine issue) of someone who is deemed 'orthodox' in group you are automatically tainted on everything else, by default. It doesn't even matter if you are Orthodox or not in reality, you are now 'lesser' than. So being called a liberal, 'people of your ilk', unorthodox, nonCatholic, dissenter, orthopraxic, a misleader etc all follows with nothing said. Are things fairly moderated, if at all? No. Gosh, go back a few days, and I had a poster dragging up my presumed race and nationality to try and score points! A poster makes an accusation against you and calls for you to be tagged. The issue is resolved. Doctrine intact. What happens? The person is still tagged becuase the person initally asked for it. No moderation warnings, no message, nothing. Yep, it sucks. Things aren't challenged by the 'in crowd' to others in the group. It's always the other person who's the bad guy. It's not what I'd expect of Catholics, online or not, but it's an old problem. Blame not the sinner, but the sin. On here we should have tackle the question or issue, not the person raising it. But I guess that's too much work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Oy vey. I don't 'trad bash' in the classroom because it never comes up. Your brand of myopic and backwards fundamentalism is irrelevant to 99.99% of people. Thank God this experiment in regression seems to be coming to an end under Pope Francis. If only Malta had enough room for all of you. Good bye. Malta is a lovely place, just saying. I've been twice :proud: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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