Catholics Don't Need To Breed Like Rabbits

[Oremus Pro Invicem]

Rabbits don't need to breed like Catholics!

[Ancilla Domini]

"It is true that the Pope’s comments have been (predictably) mangled."

Why is it that this is the only pope whose comments are "predictably mangled"? I don't remember any of this when Benedict was pope.

[little2add]

Lies
The pope is not pro- choice.

[Amppax]

"It is true that the Pope’s comments have been (predictably) mangled."
Why is it that this is the only pope whose comments are "predictably mangled"? I don't remember any of this when Benedict was pope.

Then you weren't paying attention, or are too young to remember (and before you jump down my throat, and say I'm unfairly referring to age, I really wasn't much older, and don't remember a lot myself). Condoms anyone? Regensburg? There was plenty of media misinterpretation during Benedict's pontificate.

Could it be there has been more with Francis? Yeah, but it certainly isn't a problem unique to him. I agree with Nihil, he often expresses himself poorly, but he's not the only one this happens with, and laying all blame on him is unfair.

[Nihil Obstat]

Personally, I do not think he cares whether or not he is misinterpreted. Which would be a departure from previous pontificate.
But that is an opinion only, of course.

[Amppax]

Personally, I do not think he cares whether or not he is misinterpreted. Which would be a departure from previous pontificate.
But that is an opinion only, of course.

I think so too. For better or for worse, probably for worse.

[Maggyie]

I put myself in the woman's shoes. In the initial incident I would probably have told him, "you know what, Holy Father, that particular horse has left the barn, but thanks for your insights into womens' healthcare." That's exactly what a woman who is pregnant wants to hear, is to be upbraided for her condition which she can't do anything about at this point. By a MAN.

I mean at least she'll have nine months to experience futile guilt and regret, along with exhaustion and morning sickness? The Pope told me I'm a bad mother! The pope!

Then months later he uses her as an EXAMPLE for the global media as a bad irresponsible mother. Like preachers of old would use the local girl who was too familiar with too many men. Except you know it's the POPE and they're going to write about you and your irresponsibility in the New York Times.

I mean imagine when the baby comes. Hey Janie you're the one the POPE said was a mistake!

I think an important part of effective pope-ing is refraining from humiliating people.

And once again I'm in the position of appreciating what he's saying (mom of 0 living children here) but being completely appalled...

[veritasluxmea]

I don't really have much to say on it, but for some reason I just feel appalled as well. Of course, people need to be responsible and not have kids if they have grave reason and all that, but still. Something about this just repels me. 

[Nihil Obstat]

I put myself in the woman's shoes. In the initial incident I would probably have told him, "you know what, Holy Father, that particular horse has left the barn, but thanks for your insights into womens' healthcare." That's exactly what a woman who is pregnant wants to hear, is to be upbraided for her condition which she can't do anything about at this point. By a MAN.

I mean at least she'll have nine months to experience futile guilt and regret, along with exhaustion and morning sickness? The Pope told me I'm a bad mother! The pope!

Then months later he uses her as an EXAMPLE for the global media as a bad irresponsible mother. Like preachers of old would use the local girl who was too familiar with too many men. Except you know it's the POPE and they're going to write about you and your irresponsibility in the New York Times.

I mean imagine when the baby comes. Hey Janie you're the one the POPE said was a mistake!

I think an important part of effective pope-ing is refraining from humiliating people.

And once again I'm in the position of appreciating what he's saying (mom of 0 living children here) but being completely appalled...

I think this is a pretty reasonable reaction.

I mean, if Pope Francis were speaking negatively about a woman who aborted her baby, that would be one thing. But this is... a very odd thing to comment on. It is not a story that is in the news. Nobody on earth knows who he is talking about, except this one woman who now probably feels like just the worst person ever. And possibly some of her close relations too, which is even worse. And then on top of that, since none of us have a clue about her, how are we to think about it? Do we imagine that this mythical woman is a bad person and a selfish mother? Or do we try to assume that she is actually quite a good woman whom the Pope has seriously and callously misjudged? Which is the more charitable response? Do we assume this woman in fact is just a hypothetical invented by Pope Francis? It is just strange.

Was it necessary to make an example of this one random woman? I find it undignified.

[Amppax]

This example seems almost exactly like the example my professor used last semester in my moral theology class, interestingly enough. To make the same point. Now I'm going to have to look back at my notes.

That being said, saying this to a mother or about one, not onboard with that.

[4588686]

I thought you were the pope. I am confused.

 

Good point. 

I am right. 

[Ash Wednesday]

 

What's happening, hot stuff?

[PhuturePriest]

 

What's happening, hot stuff?

 

Stop trying to lead others into sin by inspiring in them a passion to make 12 babies.

[CrossCuT]

Whelp, bashing big families as well as poo poo on contraception really leaves one whirling. Cant have it both ways. :idontknow:

 

Thats not to say that people who dont use contraception are incapable of planning families (quite the opposite) but I think we all need to admit that the church does not do a good job spreading the good news of their method. The info for NFP is really only allowed to a certain group of people at a certain time in their life. Not only that but you have to pay for it....pay for info you can get for free online. 

 

I feel like if the church was really concerned about womens well being, ability to plan families, and all that stuff, then they should make the NFP process and information as readily available as possible. 

 

And its really an unforgiving way to do it thats quite stressful on the woman if it doesnt work for her and/or she is simply bad at it. Sorry but obtaining from sex in your marriage is stupid and eff that. 

 

 

but I still love the Pope and I think his comments came off way more harsh than he intended. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by CrossCuT

[Not A Real Name]

 

What's happening, hot stuff?

 

Everyone knows Bugs Bunny is a cross-dressing abomination controlled by the illuminati. 

 

http://youtu.be/KFSYtWf4gqg

 

 

Same with Dustin Hoffman. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Not A Real Name

[Nihil Obstat]

I loved Dustin Hoffman in Death of a Salesman.

[Lil Red]

From the transcript of the interview: 

So he isn't saying couples should only have 3, or that that is the absolute ideal. And his comment about the c/s was for a specific woman. The risks to mother and child increase with each c/s, and if she's in an area that doesn't have the best antenatal and intrapartum/postnatal care, intentionally getting pregnant after 7 c/s could be construed as irresponsible because of the real risk of death to mother and child. Some women may heal better from them than others, too, so it isn't a blanket statement or anything. 

 

What a great, reasoned response to this thread

[Oremoose]

I put myself in the women's shoes. In the initial incident I would probably have told him, "you know what, Holy Father, that particular horse has left the barn, but thanks for your insights into women's' healthcare." That's exactly what a woman who is pregnant wants to hear, is to be upbraided for her condition which she can't do anything about at this point. By a MAN.

I mean at least she'll have nine months to experience futile guilt and regret, along with exhaustion and morning sickness? The Pope told me I'm a bad mother! The pope!

Then months later he uses her as an EXAMPLE for the global media as a bad irresponsible mother. Like preachers of old would use the local girl who was too familiar with too many men. Except you know it's the POPE and they're going to write about you and your irresponsibility in the New York Times.

I mean imagine when the baby comes. Hey Janie you're the one the POPE said was a mistake!

I think an important part of effective pope-ing is refraining from humiliating people.

And once again I'm in the position of appreciating what he's saying (mom of 0 living children here) but being completely appalled...

 

As much I as I agree with this post I think you may be overthinking it. 

 

First off we do not know if he encountered this woman as the Pope, since he has only been pope for nearly 2 years this easily could be an example from years ago. At a time where in Argentina, C-sections could be dangerous.

 

Second The Pope is smart enough to not be that rude to the woman's face (I think we can see this by him not calling her out particularly). In addition he would have called her child a mistake, because life is precious and wonderful, that does not stop the woman from being "irresponsible" for acting in a manner that could risk lives.

 

Lastly, not to hijack the thread, but just comment on reaction on "being a MAN" commenting on a woman's well being is ,IMHO, an Ad hominem. The Popes being a man has nothing to do with him wanting the woman to be healthy and not harm herself with having too many C-sections that at the time could have been more risky than it is now. but that is just me... 

[Maggyie]

As much I as I agree with this post I think you may be overthinking it.

First off we do not know if he encountered this woman as the Pope, since he has only been pope for nearly 2 years this easily could be an example from years ago. At a time where in Argentina, C-sections could be dangerous.

Second The Pope is smart enough to not be that rude to the woman's face (I think we can see this by him not calling her out particularly). In addition he would have called her child a mistake, because life is precious and wonderful, that does not stop the woman from being "irresponsible" for acting in a manner that could risk lives.

Lastly, not to hijack the thread, but just comment on reaction on "being a MAN" commenting on a woman's well being is ,IMHO, an Ad hominem. The Popes being a man has nothing to do with him wanting the woman to be healthy and not harm herself with having too many C-sections that at the time could have been more risky than it is now. but that is just me...

In the transcript I read he said it was a few months ago but translations translations.

I happen to agree that anything more than 3 sections is crazy. That's not my point though.

Notice how papa focused on the mother in the case. No mention of the father. That's because we tend to think of pregnancy as being a problem (or blessing) caused by the mother. Undesirable pregnancies are often considered the fault of promiscuous women (that's what the rabbit image recalls, not procreation but uncontrollable sexuality).

When he says her pregnancy is irresponsible, he means she had SEX irresponsibly.

That's why it's especially problematic for a man to be the one wagging his finger and calling a woman a rabbit, especially a celibate man in a religion where abortion and contraception are no-nos.

So she's pregnant when she shouldn't be. What does he want her to do about it?

[little2add]

What the pope said about conception is a misconception