CrossCuT Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Could there still be free will this way? Who needs it? GOd can just create a reality where there is no concept of free will. Who cares! We dont need free will if he never creates free will! Do you see what I mean? Like, God can jsut do whatever he wants. Literally. Anything. If he doesnt want our lack of free will to be a detriment, he can change it. He can make it so that we can have free will and still be born perfect and live with him forever. I dont know why we have to pick and choose. He is god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Who needs it? GOd can just create a reality where there is no concept of free will. Who cares! We dont need free will if he never creates free will! Do you see what I mean? Like, God can jsut do whatever he wants. Literally. Anything. If he doesnt want our lack of free will to be a detriment, he can change it. He can make it so that we can have free will and still be born perfect and live with him forever. I dont know why we have to pick and choose. He is god. so you would prefer to be a robot programmed to experience pleasure, rather than a free being capable of actual love. earth to Morpheus, this one wants the blue pill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 You make it sound like a bad thing. God can make it a good thing. Being a robot wont have a negative connotation if God says so. He can make being a robot the culmination of everything that is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 No, God cannot just "make" it a good thing. God can't act in a way that is contrary to His nature. If we agree that programming a bunch of robots to worship you and experience pleasure is a weird messed up thing to do, that's not something You (capital y as in God) could do. Of course you seem to think that kind of thing would be a-okay. thats just icky to me. like ick. i do not understand takers of the blue pill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) You make it sound like a bad thing. God can make it a good thing. Being a robot wont have a negative connotation if God says so. He can make being a robot the culmination of everything that is amesome. That's like saying God could make a square circle. He can't. Edited to add: (Assuming animals are in heaven) He did do that for animals in heaven. Would you really rather be an animal in heaven than an human on earth? Or, as I think Aristotle put it, would you rather be a happy pig or an unhappy human? Edited February 6, 2015 by veritasluxmea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Unhappy human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) When I think about personal suffering the Scripture passage that always comes to mind is 2 Corininthians 4: 16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed every day. 17 For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 because we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen; for the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. (please read the whole chapter!) I believe that God transforms suffering into a good thing, he turns a curse into a blessing. Because suffering entered in to the world the possibility of never-ending bliss and glory is that much greater. It serves God's purpose and the good of mankind. This is why the Church rejoices in Easter, “O happy fault of Adam that merited for us such a great Redeemer!" Does it make sense to finite minds like ours? No. The suffering still hurt? Yes. It is still very much a mystery that we must approach in faith. Edited February 6, 2015 by Seven77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 always take the red pill y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Suffering is a mystery primarily possibly why Jesus died the shocking death that He did. But in the context of the Passion of Jesus, personal sufferings fall into place : "Take up your cross and follow me". And The Church teaches that personal sufferings united to those of Jesus are redemptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 always take the red pill y'all. Dont talk to me about reality when you base your whole world view on an invisible man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 sweetie, part of intellectual growth is the realization that people who disagree with my ideas are not automatically evil or stupid or delusional. Albert Einstein, Thomas Aquinas, Gregor Mendel, etc. were not irrational morons because they believed in an invisible Spaghetti Monster. George Lemaitre, Mr. Big Bang, is responsible for how modern physics understands the existence of the universe ... and you would suggest that he, as a Catholic priest, could not talk about reality. But guess what - Stephen Hawking is not a moron either. He's just wrong about God. He's not wrong because he is dumb or evil or delusional or stupid. He's just wrong. See how I did that? You too, CC. You're wrong and its not because you're not holy enough or not smart enough or not brave enough etc. You're just incorrect. Anyway the red/pill reference is not really about reality as I am referencing it. I'm referencing it because you have said it could be a great thing if human beings have no free will, if that meant no suffering. That's the blue pill you're talking about. I'd rather have freedom and run the risk of suffering for it than be a happy slave. That's the red pill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Anyway the red/pill reference is not really about reality as I am referencing it. I'm referencing it because you have said it could be a great thing if human beings have no free will, if that meant no suffering. That's the blue pill you're talking about. I'd rather have freedom and run the risk of suffering for it than be a happy slave. That's the red pill. That is not what I was saying. God can do anything, he is omnipotent. He can simply create a different notion of free will or simply eliminate it. Doesnt matter. He could create a universe to accomplish this without putting us through suffering and death. That is what Fry is saying and that is why Fry said what he did about God being not very nice. And i get it. As far as Im concerned, I would say the blue pill fits so much more nicely with the outlook that believes we have to live this way because there is no other option...all the while they believe in an omnipotent God who would for whatever insane reason subject them to this silly life. I believe the red pill realizes that its all crap and that there is no God because it wouldn't make and lick of sense. Thats the hard reality. There is no loving benevolent God who also subjects his children to death, pain, and suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Just because one cannot fully comprehend it doesn't mean it isn't so. We who choose to believe in God believe in an all loving all-powerful God who is not a being among other beings--- he is being itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 all I can say cc is that if there was no God, I would want to know it. I do not believe in God because it is nice. I believe in God because His existence is indifferent to my feelings on the subject. I would rather accept the reality that God exists and suffer as a result (and believe me I have) than deny reality because sometimes God seems like a jerk who doesn't deserve to exist or whom I would rather not exist. I have tried doing that. It's pointless. Denying reality is insanity, insanity is the scariest crap there is. "The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you." -- Werner Heisenberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) all I can say cc is that if there was no God, I would want to know it. I do not believe in God because it is nice. I believe in God because His existence is indifferent to my feelings on the subject. I would rather accept the reality that God exists and suffer as a result (and believe me I have) than deny reality because sometimes God seems like a jerk who doesn't deserve to exist or whom I would rather not exist. I have tried doing that. It's pointless. Denying reality is insanity, insanity is the scariest croutons there is. "The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you." -- Werner Heisenberg Im cool with that. Im just saying that I get why Stephen Fry said what he said. Edited February 6, 2015 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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