Poor Clares with Traditional Latin Mass

[marigold]

Yes, welcome!

[penitentmary]

Thank you MarysLittleFlower and marigold!  I hope someone knows the answer to my question, I really feel drawn to this community but have not always lived a saintly life...  And if anyone needs help translating something from French to English, just ask me, my first language is French

God bless you both!

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thank you MarysLittleFlower and marigold!  I hope someone knows the answer to my question, I really feel drawn to this community but have not always lived a saintly life...  And if anyone needs help translating something from French to English, just ask me, my first language is French

God bless you both!

I'm much like you, I feel drawn to this spirituality but I haven't lived a saintly life either. I think unless an order specifically says something like this, its probably safe to assume a person with any past can enter because for contemplative life in general I'm not aware of any such restrictions. Hopefully someone may know! I also know someone who has read about this order maybe she would know   God bless!

[PhuturePriest]

I'm sorry if I already asked this before but I can't remember!

I really like the spirituality of the Poor Clares. Are there any with the Latin Mass?? Thank you!

​I don't know if it has been mentioned or not in the thread, but:

You will not find any Franciscans associated with the three major Franciscan orders (OFM, Conventual, or Capuchin) who celebrate the Tridentine Mass, because it was established by the people at the helm of these orders that no Franciscan under them would celebrate it. This is within their right, as per Summorum Pontificum which maintains that Orders have the right to decide whatever form of the Mass they want. 

However, if you are looking for a rocking community of contemplative Franciscan Nuns who celebrate a very Latinized Novus Ordo (that is, the Novus Ordo as it was envisioned by the Council as per Sacrosanctum Concilium), and occasionally a Tridentine, then look no further than the Poor Clares in Fort Wayne, Indiana. 

They do not have their own website, but if you contact the Franciscan Brothers Minor at their website franciscanbrothersminor.com they will give you the contact information for the nuns. Keep in mind that they have both active sisters and contemplative nuns, so be sure to specify your desired community.

[penitentmary]

I'm much like you, I feel drawn to this spirituality but I haven't lived a saintly life either. I think unless an order specifically says something like this, its probably safe to assume a person with any past can enter because for contemplative life in general I'm not aware of any such restrictions. Hopefully someone may know! I also know someone who has read about this order maybe she would know   God bless!

​I think I found the answer to my question... They seem to be virgins according to this website : http://www.amdg.asso.fr/index_bis.htm

It says : Réparation, Salut des âmes, Consolation du Coeur de Jésus, Sanctification du sacerdoce. De toutes les pensées qui inspirent les vierges victimes, la principale est la consolation du Cœur de Jésus. 

''Vierges victimes'' means Virgin victims.

It breaks my heart.. I was really attracted to their spirituality

 

[penitentmary]

Maybe I'm wrong, though. I hope so, because I've also read that the co-founder of the Victimes du Sacré Cœur, who's name is Louis Maulbon d'Arbaumont, was a capuchin priest. Therefore, if you're searching for a community that has a Franciscan spirituality, it may be the right one...

[MarysLittleFlower]

​I think I found the answer to my question... They seem to be virgins according to this website : http://www.amdg.asso.fr/index_bis.htm

It says : Réparation, Salut des âmes, Consolation du Coeur de Jésus, Sanctification du sacerdoce. De toutes les pensées qui inspirent les vierges victimes, la principale est la consolation du Cœur de Jésus. 

''Vierges victimes'' means Virgin victims.

It breaks my heart.. I was really attracted to their spirituality

 

Oh I was under the impression that only CVs have to be virgins... Is there any way to check like asking them what the requirements are to join and see if they list this one or not?

It also makes me wonder... Can people with a 'past' have this kind of spirituality as their primary one? Or do you have to be a virgin for this spirituality even if not in this order?

I hope its still possible... I had a similar question a while ago if a person with a sinful past can ever be a 'bride of Christ' even if not CV but in another way. I'm trying to make sense of my discernment but I don't have a good past :(there are some things I'm drawn to like reparation and consoling Our Lord for sin... Does my past mean that I not suitable?

Edited June 3, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[truthfinder]

This is something which should be asked of the community directly.  

[tnavarro61]

Talk to the community. It will clear up all doubts and we will be surprised that all info we had are mere misconceptions..

[beatitude]

Oh I was under the impression that only CVs have to be virgins... Is there any way to check like asking them what the requirements are to join and see if they list this one or not?

It also makes me wonder... Can people with a 'past' have this kind of spirituality as their primary one? Or do you have to be a virgin for this spirituality even if not in this order?

I hope its still possible... I had a similar question a while ago if a person with a sinful past can ever be a 'bride of Christ' even if not CV but in another way. I'm trying to make sense of my discernment but I don't have a good past :(there are some things I'm drawn to like reparation and consoling Our Lord for sin... Does my past mean that I not suitable?

"The greatest harm the devil can do to anyone is make her believe that her past is beyond repair, and that the opportunity has been let slip and it is too late."

A very wise religious wrote that - Mother Janet Stuart, who was the superior of the Society of the Sacred Heart in the early twentieth century.

There is no spirituality that is off-limits to someone. God doesn't make you thirsty for something and then tell you that you can't drink it. The greatest comforter of Christ was the woman with the alabaster jar, who came in and anointed his feet with oil and tears. Simon the Pharisee thought to himself, "If this man were a prophet he would know who is touching him and what sort of woman she is, a sinner." Jesus spoke up immediately in the woman's defence - "She has been forgiven much because she has loved much." In the gospel according to Mark, he says of the woman who anointed him, "Leave her alone. Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing for me. She has prepared my body for burial." This makes it clear that the anointing was intended as a gesture of love and comfort. He accepted it.

And thinking about it logically, why wouldn't he? Why would having had sex make someone unsuitable to comfort Christ, in a way that being a thief or telling lies wouldn't? This idea contributes to the common but unfortunately misguided preoccupation with sexual sin that exists in certain Christian circles. Jesus never said that sexual sin was harder to forgive than anything else. MLF, you have a very clear and wonderful love for Our Lord, and it's encouraging to see how determined you are to live faithfully, but you do seem to suffer from scruples a bit. I think it's possible that this causes you to worry too much and look for hard-and-fast rules where they don't exist. That website isn't an official website of the Sacre-Coeur community, it was probably written by someone completely unaffiliated to them who has their own perception of how the nuns live, and it isn't sensible to get anxious about whether you are 'suitable' for their spirituality on the basis of something so flimsy. Don't look at your past, but at your future; and concentrate on what you're being called to become, not on what you were.

Edited June 4, 2015 by beatitude

[MarysLittleFlower]

"The greatest harm the devil can do to anyone is make her believe that her past is beyond repair, and that the opportunity has been let slip and it is too late."

A very wise religious wrote that - Mother Janet Stuart, who was the superior of the Society of the Sacred Heart in the early twentieth century.

There is no spirituality that is off-limits to someone. God doesn't make you thirsty for something and then tell you that you can't drink it. The greatest comforter of Christ was the woman with the alabaster jar, who came in and anointed his feet with oil and tears. Simon the Pharisee thought to himself, "If this man were a prophet he would know who is touching him and what sort of woman she is, a sinner." Jesus spoke up immediately in the woman's defence - "She has been forgiven much because she has loved much." In the gospel according to Mark, he says of the woman who anointed him, "Leave her alone. Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing for me. She has prepared my body for burial." This makes it clear that the anointing was intended as a gesture of love and comfort. He accepted it.

And thinking about it logically, why wouldn't he? Why would having had sex make someone unsuitable to comfort Christ, in a way that being a thief or telling lies wouldn't? This idea contributes to the common but unfortunately misguided preoccupation with sexual sin that exists in certain Christian circles. Jesus never said that sexual sin was harder to forgive than anything else. MLF, you have a very clear and wonderful love for Our Lord, and it's encouraging to see how determined you are to live faithfully, but you do seem to suffer from scruples a bit. I think it's possible that this causes you to worry too much and look for hard-and-fast rules where they don't exist. That website isn't an official website of the Sacre-Coeur community, it was probably written by someone completely unaffiliated to them who has their own perception of how the nuns live, and it isn't sensible to get anxious about whether you are 'suitable' for their spirituality on the basis of something so flimsy. Don't look at your past, but at your future; and concentrate on what you're being called to become, not on what you were.

Thank you so much Beatitude that really helps. I do get scruples easily. My favourite story in the Gospels is about the woman with the perfume jar - the typical Catholic view seems to be she is St Mary Magdalene... Im glad you mentioned it because I always found it so touching. The reason this has been a struggle for me is because its only recently that I realized how beautiful virginity is when offered to God and I read it does give the soul a special beauty... I mean St Thomas definition not limited medical one. And I just wish I always lived a pure life.  

Anyway I thinking about my past and how the Saint I most identify with is St Mary Magdalene because she committed sins but then loved Jesus... I read about how she onlythought about Jesus, followed Him everywhere - according to Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich. She anointed Him many times. People often criticised her but she stopped caring what anyone thought. I read that and decided I want to be like her!

I began reading about religious life and in those descriptions the Saints often talk about Virgins. I got afraid that someone who didn't always live purely can't be a nun.. But I was told she could be... Even St Mary Magdalene lived like a nun - a type of penitent hermitess. So I think the Saints were talking about it for another reason? As the perfection of chastity... 

I read that Jesus told a mystic that in union with Him (I mean advanced union) He can somehow give His own virginity to a person though they have lost their own. I thought that is very beautiful. This mystic  is Conchita and she's venerable so had a holy life and a good relationship with the Church. The Church says about private revelations but there's nothing about Conchita that makes me doubtful so if this is true I'm really glad personally it makes sense to me and I don't have doubts. I thought I'd share that for anyone else   God bless!

Edited June 5, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Graciela]

Blessings on you, Beatitude, for sharing Mother Stuart's quote. It is such a profoundly beautiful reminder, and your comments on it were very inspiring.

I also would like to mention much recent biblical scholarship that strongly questions the usual hagiography in which Mary Magdalene is characterized as a sexual sinner (often as a prostitute). There is well done work that rejects this characterization as a conflation of several unnamed women's stories with that of Mary Magdalene.  I offer this factoid only as a further support of Beatitude's point about historical tendencies to over-emphasize sexual sins.  It seems to me that the gracious mercy of God does not have a pecking order.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Blessings on you, Beatitude, for sharing Mother Stuart's quote. It is such a profoundly beautiful reminder, and your comments on it were very inspiring.

I also would like to mention much recent biblical scholarship that strongly questions the usual hagiography in which Mary Magdalene is characterized as a sexual sinner (often as a prostitute). There is well done work that rejects this characterization as a conflation of several unnamed women's stories with that of Mary Magdalene.  I offer this factoid only as a further support of Beatitude's point about historical tendencies to over-emphasize sexual sins.  It seems to me that the gracious mercy of God does not have a pecking order.

​ I don't know... to me if St Mary Magdalene committed sexual sins it's not a way to focus on them, but she's an example of a Saint who dealt with this and  became holy - and that can be an encouragement to many people. I read in Blessed Anne Catherine's visions that St Mary Magdalene did have this sort of past though it didn't say that she was a prostitute necessarily, if i understand correctly. I know this is a private revelation but i tend to just accept whatever the Church has accepted and her visions are not forbidden. Reading a book containing these visions was really inspiring to me and i tend to imagine it like that. 

I know there are two views of this... one view is the traditional Catholic view that the woman with the perfume jar is St Mary Magdalene and that she's also the Mary in the Mary and Martha story. Then there's the Eastern view that there were a couple women - someone correct me if i'm wrong. Then there's the new view that there were several women. I tend to just go with the traditional Catholic view and that's how I understand / imagine it myself. I just accept what i've read on the topic from the Saints and Blessed Anne Catherine  

God bless

[beatitude]

Thank you so much Beatitude that really helps. I do get scruples easily. My favourite story in the Gospels is about the woman with the perfume jar - the typical Catholic view seems to be she is St Mary Magdalene... Im glad you mentioned it because I always found it so touching. The reason this has been a struggle for me is because its only recently that I realized how beautiful virginity is when offered to God and I read it does give the soul a special beauty... I mean St Thomas definition not limited medical one. And I just wish I always lived a pure life.  

​Each one of us is special simply because God never created another person like us. You can't live exactly like St This or St That, and you aren't called to be a carbon copy of them anyway. Your own beauty comes from following and loving God in the way that only you can - He only made one MLF, and it is your offering of your own life that he is looking at. Every soul its beautiful in its own way, because every soul is unique and has a unique relationship with our Creator and Lover.

St Maryam Baouardy wrote, "He does not want plunder in sacrifices; give him all. In heaven the most beautiful trees are those who have most sinned; they have used their miseries like dung around their roots." We can all do this - use our sins and bad choices and the things we regret, the dung in our lives, to help us to grow. God can bring beauty out of bad. Trusting in His ability and eagerness to do that is an act of faith and this too is a sacrifice and an offering. Repenting your past is one thing, but mourning about it often and wishing you had done things differently is not - it shows lack of faith, as it means we believe in our heart of hearts that we are never going to be as lovely as we could have been. But we are made lovely by God's love for us, not by anything we do or don't do, possess or don't possess, for the simple reason that we have nothing that God doesn't already possess. It's not that some people have got lots of treasures to give and other people have got none at all, and Jesus is sitting there like an accountant with a spreadsheet, going, "Hmm, well, So-and-so has offered me X, Y, and Z, but she's not a virgin, so her soul is going to look less shiny than the soul of Such-and-such." This is not how he works. He told the people, "There is more joy in heaven over one repentant sinner than over ninety-nine who had no need to repent." And we have all needed to repent from something.

Gabriela is right that solid biblical scholarship today does not accept the idea that the woman with the alabaster jar was Mary Magdalene. Personally I value the fact that she's nameless, because it makes it possible for any reader of that scripture to identify with her. I think that's the point - she could so easily have been any one of us. As St Paul wrote, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." But if you take comfort from the idea that she was Mary Magdalene, then I don't think God or anyone would have a problem with it.

The only thing to be careful about is that you don't accept the personal ideas of saints who grew up in a very different culture and time as somehow being sacred just because they were saints. Certain saints wrote things that would be unhelpful to anyone with a tendency to scruples, because that was the culture and climate in which they lived. Remember that canonisation according to the Church doesn't automatically mean that anything anyone ever said and did was right and holy. So if you read anything that makes you panic that you can't become a nun because you're not a virgin, then possibly your interpretation of what they're saying is off, or they're just not right on this one. I'm certain no community would refuse to accept you just because of that.

Edited June 6, 2015 by beatitude

[Yaatee]

Thank you!! I really think more of such orders should come to Canada! We have so few contemplative orders. I'm glad vocations are happening elsewhere but we need some too! lol.

​MLF, I think that if and when, in the future, you remain interested in religious life, (as I assume you well), it will be most helpful to you to discern in Canada, which is where I assume you live.  

The Sisters of Reparation are a diocesan community in Steubenville, Ohio, formed recently.  It is not clear how many members they have.  You would have to visit, perhaps more than once, and enter in Ohio.  The Daughters appear to be exclusively in Europe.  I could not find them (easily) on the web.  For them, you would have to visit and enter in Europe.  Most people don't want to be far from their families, don't have a lot of money available for multiple visits at a distance, and may prefer entering an established institute.

A number of communities, especially contemplative ones, have adoration and devotion to the Sacred Heart.  Among more active groups, the rscj, Society of the Sacred Heart was (obviously) named after the Sacred Heart.  These and other communities are well represented in Canada.  The EF may be less well represented, though in the larger cities, there would be EF available, though not necessarily within communities.

Once you start to visit communities, a lot of this will become clearer.