vee Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.655933 pretty amesome! its nice to see a female Carmelite saint thats NOT named Teresa!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Marie Alphonsine Ghattas' Order's website, all in Arabic of course http://www.rosary-cong.com/ They posted this video with images of the two soon to be saints and a song that I presume is Arabic but I think most Catholics can guess wht they are singing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) here is the Carmel of Bethlehem's page with links to the other Carmels in the holy land. http://carmelholyland.org/en/our-communities/bethlehem.html a video of the Carmel, interviews etc https://www.gloria.tv/media/AA2tyxMA9pc edited oops forgot a link! Edited May 15, 2015 by vee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I found out about Mariam several years ago; such good news to hear she will be canonized. I'll have to learn about Marie Alphonsine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadaTeTurbe Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Tomorrow, I'm gonna put my palestinian and my Vatican flag at my window ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 St. Marie Alphonsine was a 3rd Order Dominican so we will have another saint on our calendar!We always joke that if you want to get canonized become either a Carmelite nun or a 3rd Order Dominican! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antigonos Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) For the sake of accuracy, I'd just like to note that these two nuns were not "Palestinians" because Palestine did not exist during their lifetimes. They lived in the Ottoman province of Syria, which included today's Israel and Lebanon, the West Bank, and Gaza, along with today's Syria. The capital of Ottoman Syria, btw, was the town of Ramleh, not Jerusalem. If these two sisters were alive today, they would be in Israel [one was born in Jerusalem, and the other came from the Galilee] The Ottomans divided their empire up much more by ethnicity and religion than by region. They called autonomous groups, based on either criterion a "millet". Latin Catholics, as well as Protestants, were lumped together with Armenian Christians in the "Armenian millet" -- to distinguish them from the Greek Orthodox, who had their own millet. These millets had considerable autonomy and power in the Ottoman world during the 19th century, until the end of World War I. The recent history of Christian Arabs under the Palestinian Authority has not been good -- in the space of slightly more than two decades Bethlehem, for example, has gone from being a Christian town to one with a huge Muslim majority. One cannot escape noting that the future of many Christian communities in Middle Eastern Muslim countries is bleak indeed and undoubtedly Pope Francis is concerned for their survival. Edited May 17, 2015 by Antigonos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corban711 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I don't know St. Marie Alphonsine, but I do love the now St. Mariam of Jesus Crucified! Very excited that she is being canonized. Even though my prayer life has absolutely nothing in common with the wild mystical experiences that she experienced regularly, I have asked her for her prayers for years now and she is a good and powerful intercessor. I was talking to a Discalced Carmelite priest about her a few months ago and he was telling me about her upcoming canonization and he told me that she is often invoked by many nowadays in deliverance ministry. With all that is going on in the Middle East and around the world, I can't help but think their canonization is very timely! May it help to bring mercy, peace, and joy into the hearts of those in that region and inspire many to become saints throughout the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadaTeTurbe Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Galilee is palestinian, NOT Israelian. Galilee was colonized by Israelian. The Pope Francis, who have always supported the Palestinian people, know it. " The event in Rome will be attended by Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas. As far as is known, Israel will not be sending an official representative."" Israel doesn't seem to think that the two sisters are worth it, btw. I hope that at least Rabbi Di Segni was here. http://www.ktvz.com/news/pope-francis-names-two-palestinians-saints/33068192 Sister Mariam Baouardy experienced this in an outstanding way. Poor and uneducated, she was able to counsel others and provide theological explanations with extreme clarity, the fruit of her constant converse with the Holy Spirit. Her docility to the Spirit also made her a means of encounter and fellowship with the Muslim world," the Pope said. "So, too, Sister Marie Alphonsine Danil Ghattas came to understand clearly what it means to radiate the love of God ... and to be a witness to meekness and unity. She shows us the importance of becoming responsible for one another, of living lives of service one to another," he said. And in the Holy Land, Palestinians tried to express what the canonization meant to them. "As Christians, this is a sign of hope, this is a light in the tunnel," said Father Jamal Khader, the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. "Especially now in the Middle East, with all the events, with all the violence. We are celebrating the lives of two saints who worked humbly for everyone and who proved to be true followers of Jesus Christ." The Vatican wants to be seen as part of the peace process in the Middle East, and Pope Francis has made that a priority. And Francis can be expected at some point to take similar action on the Israeli side, she said. As political as the canonizations may have been, they carried deep spiritual meaning, as well. Visions of the Virgin Marie-Alphonsinse Ghattas was born in Jerusalem in the 1840s to a devout Christian family. She became a nun, dedicating herself to a life of quiet servitude. In Bethlehem, she said, she began to receive visions of the Virgin Mary telling her to start a new congregation for Arab girls, called Sisters of the Rosary. Ghattas hard work -- and her profound devotion -- led to the founding of the Rosary Sisters Convent. It was Ghattas's home, which she donated to the convent to spread education and culture to those in need. "Sometimes God creates from these weak people something great," said Sister Agatha, a member of the Rosary Sisters congregation in Jerusalem. A throat slit, a miracle occurs Mariam Baouardy was born in Ibillin, a small village in Galilee -- also in the 1840s. She was the 13th child in her family, and the only one to survive past infancy. Her parents died when she was 3 years old, and her uncle raised her. In Alexandria, Egypt, one of her uncle's servants told her to convert to Islam. When she refused, the servant slit her throat. And it was then that Baouardy's miracle began. "Mariam became a martyr, and she went to heaven," said Sister Fireal of the Carmelite Monastery in Bethlehem. "She saw the crown of grace, saw her mother and father. But she heard a voice saying that your life is not yet over and you should return to Earth." According to Baouardy's account, a young nun dressed in blue healed her, cared for her, and led her to the church. It was, she believed, the Virgin Mary. Baouardy led a life of service to the poor and to the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadaTeTurbe Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 http://www.taybeh.info/en/rosaire.php The order founded by Ste Marie-Alphonsine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antigonos Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Which came first, the Old Testament or the Koran? Was the kingdom of David not the Kingdom of Israel and how many centuries before the Romans first called that part of Coele-Syria "Palestine" and how many centuries after that was the Muslim conquest which brought the first Arabs into the region? where did Jesus live? In the Galilee. Was he not a Jew? Who were his people, his neighbors? Jews. I am not in any way denigrating the saintliness of these Sisters. Just pointing out that it is inaccurate to call them by a name which was meaningless in their lifetimes. They were Christian Arabs living under Ottoman rule. Neither Christian nor Muslim Arabs used the term "Palestinian" until well after 1948. Pope Francis is in a very difficult position with the rise of Islamic radicalism that is causing persecution of Christians all across the Middle East. I think he is hoping that honey will catch more flies than vinegar because he must know that the very man he is calling an "angel of peace" is encouraging anti-Christian harassment. but let's leave this topic here. It's not really VS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadaTeTurbe Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I agree with you on Mahmud Abbas. But all of this is politic. While the name was meaningless in their lifetimes, it is a good indicator for today people. Let's say we are going to beatify a spanish nun of the XI th century. It is more clear for people to say "a spanish nuns" than "a nun from Al-Andalus". If you're going to beatify a parisian priest from the VI th century, people will understand "french priest", not "neustrian priest". Even if Spain and France were nothing at this time, today Al-Andalus and Neustrie are nothing for us. But we can agree to disagree I don't know about christian or Muslim Arabs, but we have old family letters from family member (jewish) living in Palestine before 1948 (I don't know for sure the city, but I think it is today Palestine), who call himself Palestinian (but then we don't really know a lot about him, if he was an old or new yishuv, it's our family mystery.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antigonos Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 If you know the name of the town, I can tell you whether it is within the area administered by the Palestinian Authority or not. It appears likely that the Pope was misquoted in the English-language press. Since I'm writing on an iPad, I don't know how to send a link, but an article in the Weekly Standard claims that the Italian media all have it that what the Pope actually said was that Abbas could be an angel of peace if he so chooses. Nevertheless, it is good to hear that an authoritative voice is now trying to make the plight of some of the most ancient churches more into the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Antigonos, you are Israeli and you have made it clear in the past that you are a religious nationalist. I think your own political perspective is affecting your take on this. Nation-states themselves are a very new concept, borders are fluid, and identity is in constant flux, but I doubt you would be so keen to tell Liberians that heroic and valued community members who lived pre-Liberia weren't 'real' Liberians. Today there have been celebrations all over Palestine for these women, who hold a dear place in local Christian culture; they are a part of the historical, religious, and cultural tapestry of Palestine and people identify strongly with them. This isn't going to alter just because some people try to present Palestine as something shallow-rooted in the region - which, let's be honest, is usually done in an attempt to justify military rule, settlement expansion, and whatever else. I don't think a thread on the nuns' canonisation is the place for this kind of political point-scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.655933 pretty amesome! its nice to see a female Carmelite saint thats NOT named Teresa!! In related, more important news:Holy carp, everyone, vee is still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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