amour absolu - docu about bethlehem sisters

[josephine]

I found this lovely documentary about the monastic sisters of bethlehem and st Bruno

thought you would enjoy it!

 

the docu is in french, but as they are hermit-sisters who don't talk that much that shouldn't be a problem and otherwise i hope nadateturbe will help translate things?

I really loved the ending: the sisters are watching the sun and singing so beautifully "maranatha, the spirit and the bride say, come!"

there whole lives are really a wake, waiting and praying for the coming of the Savior!

 

[NadaTeTurbe]

Tell me where you want me to translate  

[corban711]

Thank you so much for posting this!  I love those sisters so much!  I have been to their monastery in Livingston Manor, NY a few different times now either for single days of prayer or for retreat.  And just last week, on the feast of the Ascension, I was able to spend some time in prayer at their monastery in Paris!!!  It was such an incredible gift to be there with them.  

Thank you for posting...I hope to be able to actually watch the whole thing soon!  

[Graciela]

Nada, 

Could you please tell us what the sister is saying to the group of visitors? 

Thank you in advance.

[Antigonos]

I posted the link to the Israeli film that was made a few years ago ... this is not the "first time" the sisters have been the subject of a film, but they are always fascinating [and French is probably easier for most to understand than Hebrew <g>]

[truthfinder]

Nada, 

Could you please tell us what the sister is saying to the group of visitors? 

Thank you in advance.

​Not a transcription, but one of the visitors asks about recruitment for the monastery.  The nun responds that they do not recruit; Jesus recruits for them.  In freedom, the woman approaches the monastery. If you want, I or someone else can go back and transcribe properly. 

[NadaTeTurbe]

Just told me at wich minute it is please  

[truthfinder]

Just told me at wich minute it is please  

​16:15

[NadaTeTurbe]

Sister : Come on, come on. 

Man : Sister, how does the baton go ? 

Sister : There is no recruitment. It's the Lord who do the recruitment. It's not the community who go to find people, so they can come here, it's really the community who stay hidden, in the silence of God, and the Lord call the heart of the people who pass by the monastery, who came in liberty to the little sisters, speaking about the call they received in their heart, then the little sisters discerned to know if it is here that the Lord wait for them, But it's true... it's... It's the freedom in the heart of every little sisters.

[NadaTeTurbe]

I won't post more on the LIttle sisters and just go back to translate it, because I don't know them, and I don't want to tell lie. But I thought you have the right to know what is going on in the "french speaking world", the testimony is from the old prior of the brothers. 

[genesisweavers]

 - Frankly I was surprised that this document was permitted to be displayed here in this forum.  I have never read anything here that is this damaging to a religious  congregation.  And frankly the text has revenge written all over it.  It makes me wonder why  such a piece was even written, why posted here by Nada and why the moderators agreed to publish it.   Even if there are no legal consequences here the damage that a piece like this can cause is huge not to mention the issue of charity.  And what about truth - how do we know that this is even true. 

I'm a lay associate of Bethlehem and have known the Sisters here in Livingston Manor for about 15 years.  I have lived here at the monastery for four years and I cook for the guests.  From my experience I have never seen anything here that would tell me that this document is accurate.  In fact I have often said - the Bethlehem Monks and Monastic Sisters are the best people I have ever met.  They are clearly very holy and deeply spiritual people.  Just one observation on the criticisms listed in this document - a slam on their liturgy.  I have said for the longest time now that their liturgy is like a lesson in the spiritual life.  If they have been experimenting with it for 60 years - it's a masterpiece in my world.  And the way they pray the liturgy is totally dignified and reverent.  I think - if someone wants to make an issue out of liturgy there are thousands of very poor liturgies in our churches throughout the world. 

Bethlehem has been an inspiration too me and to hundreds of people who come here to the monastery to experience time in solitude and to pray.  This document does not even come close to anything that I have experienced here.  Perhaps we need to pray for this forum if this the direction it's taking. 

[NadaTeTurbe]

I find the document by googling, and I did not read all (just the testimony by the prior and another by a lady who criticize but finish with "it was the best year of my life"). I don't find them harsh. I wanted to share it, that's all.  find the link to the document on a website who belong to a priest who have responsability in the Church of France. I don't know the sisters of Bethleem. I am sorry if it is innapropriate and I can take off my message (I speak/write faster than I think, I have had innapropriate word against another community here, and if a moderator ask me I can edit). 

If you're a lay associate, you can post your testimony (what you have beginning to do), and maybe other people who know them can post, so we will have a fair testimony. Maybe the testimonies inside are only right for the brothers or for some monastery (like there is probably benedictine monastery who are problematic but then get better), or for a time. 

On the liturgy, I think what the (ex)brother was saying it that it is not official. Not that it is not beautiful or whatever (it looks like), but not recognized. 

[Swami Mommy]

This was a lovely video of a way of life filled with Presence and devotion.  Thank you for sharing it.  Just as an aside, I confess I kept feeling uneasy about all the candles used for ritual and for reading as I could see the potential for accidentally setting a habit sleeve on fire in a moment of drowsiness in the wee hours of the night during prayer!  I really liked how each nun had her own private prayer stall in the chapel that created a certain intimacy with one's own aloneness even in community.  I also really liked the simplicity of the nun's cell, and I was very taken with how moving so slowly and with such deliberation brought mindfulness to their daily tasks.  I was also struck by the reverence with which the nuns moved through their rituals and how important it is to bring that heartfelt devotion to whatever we do in order to invoke the sacredness of everyday life.

[tnavarro61]

it's really unfair when people make things online when the other party cannot defend themselves.. not that I am blaming nada.. but i think the post should be taken down.

 

o welcome back navo.

[NadaTeTurbe]

Sister : Come on, come on. 

Man : Sister, how does the baton go ? 

Sister : There is no recruitment. It's the Lord who do the recruitment. It's not the community who go to find people, so they can come here, it's really the community who stay hidden, in the silence of God, and the Lord call the heart of the people who pass by the monastery, who came in liberty to the little sisters, speaking about the call they received in their heart, then the little sisters discerned to know if it is here that the Lord wait for them, But it's true... it's... It's the freedom in the heart of every little sisters. 

 

​

[NadaTeTurbe]

I did not think about it, but I think you're right... But I can't edit it ? There's no edit button ? 

[Gabriela]

Is there a policy in the VS about not expressing concerns about particular religious orders? I know there is a policy about not promoting orders that are not approved by the Church, but that's not the same thing. And there are certainly some orders we've discussed in the past where people advised extreme caution.

[marigold]

There has to be a way of discussing these things honestly without fear of reprimand.

[NadaTeTurbe]

My SD told me I should not have done that if I did not know the congregation, and that it is a lack of trust in religious life (a big defect of mine) to trust something on the internet above all. I think he is right, because I tend to imagine a lot of things with religious communities, and because I am very pessimistic, it's not always good. 

By doing reseach, I find a "right to answer" by the brother silouane, actual prior of the little broter of BEthleem. here is the french version and then the google translate version. By this, I hope to put an end to the polemique, by giving you the version of the Little Brothers. 
 

Réponse à Fabio B., auteur du texte : « Révélations accablantes d’un ancien supérieur », paru sur le site L’envers du décor le 28 octobre 2014, écrite par Frère Silouane, prieur actuel des frères de Bethléem

Le dossier de 48 pages diffusé par Fabio B. sous le titre « Les révélations accablantes d’un ancien supérieur » porte un nom trompeur, car il occulte et manipule plus de choses qu’il ne prétend en révéler. Fabio B. se présente comme une victime courageuse et désintéressée révélant les secrets d’une dérive sectaire. Ce pseudo statut de victime et de lanceur d’alerte est censé garantir la vérité de ses « révélations ». La gravité des accusations nous oblige à répondre pour rétablir les faits, questionner la lucidité et l’objectivité de l’auteur et pour contester radicalement ses affirmations qui relèvent d’un mélange de manipulation et de théorie du complot, qu’elles prétendent par ailleurs dénoncer.

Fabio B. prétend dénoncer une dérive sectaire, reposant sur un système d’emprise sur les consciences encouragé par la Communauté des sœurs et leur prieure générale. Il se plaint d’avoir été manipulé dès son arrivée à Bethléem, durant sa formation, avant de faire ses vœux et avant d’être ordonné prêtre. Mais comment peut-il, sciemment et en conscience, taire que son responsable direct pour toutes ces étapes a été l’ancien prieur de Bethléem (de 1978 à 2001), qui a quitté juste après lui notre communauté ? Lequel ancien prieur a exercé une sorte de tyrannie à l’intérieur de la communauté, l’a fait dévier dans un idéal humain étranger à l’Évangile et s’est ingéré dans le gouvernement des sœurs. Oui, quelle crédibilité accorder à ce texte quand la vérité sur l’accompagnateur principal de Fabio B. est ainsi occultée, pour rejeter la responsabilité sur la communauté des sœurs et sur un charisme approuvé par l’Église ?

Fabio B. présente son texte comme une tentative de briser la loi du silence, imposée par la Communauté des sœurs, mais lui-même occulte les innombrables éléments qui s’opposeraient à sa pseudo démonstration.

Il indique que son texte est une reprise d’un dossier qu’il a déposé en 2009 à la Congrégation pour la Doctrine de la Foi, parallèlement à un dossier déposé par l’ancien prieur, mais il se garde bien de dire que ces dossiers ont donné lieu à une enquête de la part de la Congrégation pour la Doctrine de la Foi, enquête qui s’est conclue par un non-lieu, les propos de Fabio B. et de l’ancien prieur ayant été reconnus comme une interprétation personnelle et déformante de leur propre histoire. Une autre conséquence de la conclusion de cette enquête a été l’exclaustration de l’ancien prieur, imposée par le Saint-Siège le 23 septembre 2013. Quant à Fabio B., il a été, à sa demande, réduit à l’état laïc.

A supposer qu’il y ait eu des erreurs dans l’accueil et la formation de Fabio B., qui en est le premier responsable ? Faut-il généraliser et faire la théorie de ses problèmes et de ses difficultés personnelles pour affirmer des faits qui sortent complètement de la réalité ou qui la déforment gravement ? L’affirmation que ce texte est écrit sans passion, pour l’utilité de plusieurs, est toujours démentie par l’amalgame malhonnête de faits et de pure fiction déformés par une interprétation tendancieuse et par une confusion qui paraît calculée. Qui plus est, on a scrupule à rappeler cette simple évidence : Fabio B. ne connaît plus la vie des monastères depuis plus de cinq ans.

Je peux attester personnellement que la réalité actuelle de Bethléem ne correspond pas à ce qui est dit et affirmé dans ce dossier mensonger et à charge.

Il ne s’agit pas de dire que la communauté de Bethléem est une réalité parfaite. Certes non.

Mais la stigmatiser bassement comme il est fait dans ce texte est honteux et malhonnête.

La communauté des frères existe de façon autonome par rapport aux sœurs, elle ne correspond en rien à ce qui est dit dans ce texte, elle a son identité propre, et le respect des personnes et de la vraie liberté est au cœur de notre recherche continuelle, pour les frères et pour les sœurs. Ce que Fabio B. décrit comme le « marché des vocations » à Bethléem est ignoble et blessant pour ceux qui ont trouvé leur vocation. En outre cela est démenti par les faits car un nombre significatif de postulants choisissent une autre voie à la suite d’un processus de discernement respectueux. Le texte de Fabio B. profane de façon perfide et habile ce qui concerne une communauté entière, frères et sœurs, pour y jeter un discrédit total et lui faire le plus de mal possible, en occultant les éléments cités au début, ce qui est inadmissible.

C’est dire si ce texte infamant est mensonger. C’est dire si son auteur occulte sciemment une partie des faits pour porter ses accusations infondées. Je ne pouvais, en conscience, les laisser sans réponse.

Qui souhaiterait mieux connaître notre Famille monastique peut visiter notre site internet ou l’un de nos monastères. Qui souhaiterait un complément de réponse au texte publié par Fabio B. peut écrire à l’adresse suivante :

Frère Silouane - complément de réponse 
Currière-en-Chartreuse 
38380 Saint Laurent du Pont

Pour la Congrégation des Moines de Bethléem et de l’Assomption de la Vierge 
Frère Silouane

Here is the google translate version of it : 
 

Response to Fabio B., author of the text: "Overhelming Revelations of a former superior," appeared on the website Behind the scenes October 28, 2014, written by Brother Silouan, current prior of Bethlehem brothers

The 48-page dossier released by Fabio B. under the title "The damning revelations of a former superior" has a misleading name because it obscures and manipulates more than he claims to reveal. Fabio B. is as courageous and selfless victim revealing the secrets of a sectarian aberration. This pseudo status of victim and whistleblower is supposed to guarantee the truth of his "revelations". The seriousness of the charges requires us to respond to restore the facts, question the clarity and objectivity of the author and to radically challenge his assertions that fall a mixture of manipulation and conspiracy theory, they also claim denounce.

Fabio B. claims to denounce sectarian drift, based on a system of control over consciences encouraged by the Community of the Sisters and Prioress General. He complained of having been manipulated his arrival in Bethlehem, during his training before making his vows and before being ordained priest. But how can he, knowingly and conscientiously shut its direct responsibility for all of these steps was the former prior of Bethlehem (1978 to 2001), who left him right after our community? Which former prior exercised a sort of tyranny within the community, deflected in a foreign human ideal to the Gospel and interfered in the government of the sisters. Yes, how credible this text when the truth about the principal accompanist Fabio B. is well hidden to blame the community of sisters and a charism approved by the Church?

Fabio B. presents his text as an attempt to break the silence imposed by the Community of the Sisters but itself obscures the innumerable elements which preclude its pseudo demonstration.

He indicated that his text is a cover of a folder he filed in 2009 to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, along with a dossier submitted by the former prior, but he is careful not to say that these records resulted in an investigation by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, investigation was concluded with a non-place, the words of Fabio B. and former prior having been recognized as a personal interpretation and distorting of their own history. Another consequence of the conclusion of this investigation was the former prior of exclaustration imposed by the Holy See on September 23, 2013. As for Fabio B., he was, at his request, reduced to the state secular.

Assuming that there were errors in the reception and training of Fabio B., who is primarily responsible? Should we generalize the theory to its problems and personal difficulties to assert facts that completely out of reality or the severely deformed? The assertion that this text is written without passion for the good of many, is still denied by the dishonest amalgam of fact and fiction warped by a misinterpretation and confusion that seems calculated. Moreover, it has qualms recall this simple evidence: Fabio B. no longer knows the life of the monasteries for over five years.

I can personally attest that the current reality of Bethlehem does not match what is said and affirmed in this case and lying dependents.

It is not to say that the Bethlehem community is a perfect reality. Certainly not.

But the stigmatizing crass as it is done in this text is shameful and dishonest.

The brothers of the community exists independently relative to the sisters, it in no way corresponds to what is said in this text, it has its own identity, and respect for people and true freedom is at the heart of our continual search for brothers and for sisters. What Fabio B. described as the "deal of vocations" in Bethlehem is vile and offensive to those who found their vocation. Moreover it is contradicted by the facts because a significant number of applicants choosing another path after a respectful process of discernment. The text of Fabio B. profane treacherous and clever way regarding an entire community, brothers and sisters, to have a total discredit and make it harder possible, by concealing the items mentioned in the beginning, which is unacceptable .

This means if the text is infamous lie. This means if the perpetrator knowingly conceals some facts to bear unfounded accusations. I could not in conscience leave unanswered.

Who would know better our monastic Family can visit our website or one of our monasteries. Who would like further response to the text published by Fabio B. can write to the following address:

Brother Silouan - response supplement
Currière-en-Chartreuse
38380 Saint Laurent du Pont

For the Bethlehem Moines Congregation and the Assumption of the Virgin
Brother Silouan

[Ash Wednesday]

- Frankly I was surprised that this document was permitted to be displayed here in this forum.  I have never read anything here that is this damaging to a religious  congregation.  And frankly the text has revenge written all over it.  It makes me wonder why  such a piece was even written, why posted here by Nada and why the moderators agreed to publish it.   Even if there are no legal consequences here the damage that a piece like this can cause is huge not to mention the issue of charity.  And what about truth - how do we know that this is even true. 

I'm a lay associate of Bethlehem and have known the Sisters here in Livingston Manor for about 15 years.  I have lived here at the monastery for four years and I cook for the guests.  From my experience I have never seen anything here that would tell me that this document is accurate.  In fact I have often said - the Bethlehem Monks and Monastic Sisters are the best people I have ever met.  They are clearly very holy and deeply spiritual people.  Just one observation on the criticisms listed in this document - a slam on their liturgy.  I have said for the longest time now that their liturgy is like a lesson in the spiritual life.  If they have been experimenting with it for 60 years - it's a masterpiece in my world.  And the way they pray the liturgy is totally dignified and reverent.  I think - if someone wants to make an issue out of liturgy there are thousands of very poor liturgies in our churches throughout the world. 

Bethlehem has been an inspiration too me and to hundreds of people who come here to the monastery to experience time in solitude and to pray.  This document does not even come close to anything that I have experienced here.  Perhaps we need to pray for this forum if this the direction it's taking. 

​Please do not assume that everything that is posted on here is something that moderators take an active role in publishing. This is what the "report" button is for, many of us have very busy lives and we don't have 24 hours a day to patrol a forum, but we do what we can. Everything on phatmass is done purely on a voluntary basis, and I have not had time to even see this thread until this morning.

I have reported the post in question to have other more experienced moderators take a look and see whether or not this is in violation of VS rules and whether or not a course of action is needed. My apologies that this was not seen sooner, and thank you for your patience.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Credo in Deum