Sources of Divine Revelation

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

lol. talk yourself up why don't you. Your so judgmental, it's not that i refuse to understand, it is that i have a different understanding whether the right one or the wrong one, or just can't understand, at present. Explain the documents you post than if you understand them don't just rattle off pieces of paper like a robot coz a robot doesn't have a heart, which leads me to believe that you don't actually understand the documents yourself. Sorry to be mean but again settle down, we are just discussing and both are trying to deepen each others understanding as to what is true and just.

And again, that document that ws posted doesn't proove to me that there can be no divine revelation outside of holy scripture and the magesterium, papal infallibilty, etc. The Holy Catholic church even teaches that all cultures have had fragments of the truth within there cultures, which prooves that there is divine revelation outside of the per say infallible ones. But also unsure if the teaching is an infallible one, though i have a strange feeling that it is actually in the catechism and therefore infallible..

Edited July 23, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I accept and believe whole heatedly everything that has been stated in all of these documents that have been presented to me and have never stated otherwise so please relax on the whip babe!

Oh i actually just checked you profile and your actually a male, my sincere apologies brother.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye
gender confusion

[Nihil Obstat]

CCC: 890

"The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium's task to preserve God's people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church's shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms: [...]"

From Dei Filius, adopted 24 April 1870: Chapter 3:

"Further, all those things are to be believed with divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church, either by a solemn judgment, or by her ordinary and universal magisterium, proposes for belief as having been divinely revealed.

And since, without faith, it is impossible to please God, and to attain to the fellowship of his children, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will any one obtain eternal life unless he shall have persevered in faith unto the end. And, that we may be able to satisfy the obligation of embracing the true faith, and of constantly persevering in it, God has instituted the Church through his only-begotten Son, and has bestowed on it manifest notes of that institution, that it may be recognized by all men as the guardian and teacher of the revealed Word; for to the Catholic Church alone belong all those many and admirable tokens which have been divinely established for the evident credibility of the Christian faith. Nay, more, the Church by itself, with its marvelous extension, its eminent holiness, and its inexhaustible fruitfulness in every good thing, with its Catholic unity and its invincible stability, is a great and perpetual motive of credibility, and an irrefutable witness of its own divine mission."

 

In other words, everything proposed for belief by the ordinary and universal magisterium is to be believed with divine and Catholic faith. The Magisterium is endowed with the charism of infallibility by Christ Himself.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

You have already posted all of this. And i totally agree with absolutely everything the catechism states and what you have stated "In other words, everything proposed for belief by the ordinary and universal magisterium is to be believed with divine and Catholic faith. The Magisterium is endowed with the charism of infallibility by Christ Himself." and again the magesterium doesn't always exercise the right to infallibility with the ordinary or universal magesterium. How is anything i am saying contrary to any of these documents brother?

you are now possibly just arguing for arguments sake and are an argumentive person, but st paul says we are not to argue amongst each other though we can i assum argue with pagans and that i am not. But with the light of christ it has been revealed to me that we are actually talking about two different things, i'm talking about the magesterium in general and you are talking about when the magesterium exercises the charisms of ordinary or universal magesterium, which it doesnt as far as i'm aware always excercise. But lets let it go. I'm over the discussion and it has nothing to do with the O.P. I wan't to here peoples ideas on divine revelation and only one person has posted anything to do with that.

Over the discussion about the magesterium with you anyway, please respect my rights to ask you to back off and stop talking to me about it.

B.O

Edited July 23, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

One thing i have got though out of all of this is that now i am officially madly in love with the bishops and pope, particularly when exercising ex cathedra and the ordinary and universal magesterium. lol. alleluia.  No actually i am jst madly in love with them, this whole debate has got me chanting outside just then " BISHOPS CHA CHA CHA... BIIIISHOPS CHA CHA CHA... BISHOPS CHA CHA CHA. BISHY BISHY BISHY" 

[Amppax]

Thanks amppax but the document you have shown me uses words like definitive and 'ex cathedra' and when the college of bishops gather and agree on something, i agree with all documents coming from such as being infallible, but also again i don't believe all documents are infallible that being as an over all judgement not everything contained within the annals of the church is infallible. Holy Scripture warns us that there are going to be weeds amongst the wheat which remain until the final judgement, that's why we don't just blindly follow everything, we must carefully discern and meditate upon all things that don't fall into the category of  infallible.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Amppax

[Nihil Obstat]

None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see.

[Credo in Deum]

@Tab'le De'Bah-Rye: The parable of the wheat and the weeds is not a parable which suggest the Church would teach error, but that those within the Church would hold on to errors which are not taught in the Church. If it was about the Church teaching error then how would we know the difference between the wheat and the weeds?  The parable also goes on to show God's mercy and patience when dealing with such people and that he allows them to stay in the Church to give them the chance to be converted and follow Him via the Church's infallible guidance.  However, His mercy will not be presumed and for those who continue in their error, they will be met with perfect justice on the day of Judgment.

All Christians are called to recognize and accept the infallibility of Christ's Church. We are commanded this by Christ Himself when He states that the rejection of the Apostles is a rejection of Him, and a rejection of Him is the the rejection Of the Father who sent Him. He also states that those who reject the teaching authority of His Church should be viewed as heathens and publicans.  He furthermore promises to His Church and the Pope, the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, thus the authority to bind and lossen. He promises that the gates of Hell will never prevail against His Church and that the Holy Spirit will preserve and guide the Church unto all Truth. It is necessary that the Church have this mark of infallibly since ask yourself the question,  If the Church was not infallible, how could any Christian be sure of what is or is not God's teaching? How would any Christian know which interpretation of Scripture to follow? Furthermore look at the direct hypocrisy of Christians who hold their private interpretations as being from God (infallible) but then deny the necessity of an infallible Church! Look at those who read the Bible and proclaim it to be the Word of God, which it is, but only have the Bible because of the infallibility of the Holy Catholic Church! Pray about that, Tab.  

God would never lead people into error and the Church is not separate from Christ.  When Saint Paul (aka Saul) attacked the Apostles of the Church, Christ said "Why do you persecute Me?!" Likewise Tab when you persecute the Church by calling it fallible you persecute Christ by calling Him fallible and the Father who sent Him. In your heart I believe you know Christ is infallible and I believe the problem you are having is in understanding that the Church is not separate from Christ.  The two are One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2015 by Credo in Deum

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I just talked to a priest yesterday guys and he says i'm correct and you guys are wrong, not everything the church states is infallible. So although perhaps not heretics your actually wrong and your understanding is misled.

His Church and the Pope, the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven,

 

 

He hands the keys to peter not to the church, you are adding stuff thats not in the bible, be careful dude.

hypocrisy of Christians who hold their private interpretations as being from God (infallible). I agree and have never stated my interpretation of scripture as being correct and definately not infallible, including my discernment of church documents.

And by the way i would never call christ infallible, he is the head and we are the body, the head controls the whole body and not the other way around, in a holy sense the body can fail but the spirit/mind lives on. But also i do understand Jesus said darkness will never over come the church, which i take as she will never be fully overcome so she will never completely fail/be decieved, an element of the truth will always remain like in noahs day.

And renew the face of the church/world.

And something you should all consider yourselves is that we should defend the what we believe to be the truth vigorously and not aggressively, you will not only drive people interested away from the wings of the angels but you will also drive those whom are already converted and struggling away. Such an aggresive stance toward myself will be met with a brick wall and a solid foundation! You have been warned.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Just have a discussion and stop trying to murk me you little thugs, if you don't realise that's what your doing, that is what your doing. no pun intended.

We got flies in australia anoying the croutons out of us testing our patience as do we have mosquitoes that buzz around your ear at night when your trying to go to sleep. Coz that's what i feel your up to, again whether you realise it or not, and even if your 100% correct your delivery is terribly decieved.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Nihil Obstat]

[Nihil Obstat]

@dUSt, can we please get a phishy tag for Tab so that new people on this site understand that he does not know what he is talking about, and that he is consistently misrepresenting authentic Catholic belief?

[Archaeology cat]

Tab - we all know not everything someone in the Church says is infallible. The Magisterium is infallible (but not all statements from clergy or the Church are from the Magisterium). There are clear criteria for what is necessary for a statement to have the weight of infallibility, which has been discussed before. God bless.

[puellapaschalis]

@dUSt, can we please get a phishy tag for Tab so that new people on this site understand that he does not know what he is talking about, and that he is consistently misrepresenting authentic Catholic belief?

That's going to need more than a phishy tag; others with it are not nearly so bad.

[Credo in Deum]

I just talked to a priest yesterday guys and he says i'm correct and you guys are wrong, not everything the church states is infallible. So although perhaps not heretics your actually wrong and your understanding is misled.

He hands the keys to peter not to the church, you are adding stuff thats not in the bible, be careful dude.

hypocrisy of Christians who hold their private interpretations as being from God (infallible). I agree and have never stated my interpretation of scripture as being correct and definately not infallible, including my discernment of church documents.

And by the way i would never call christ infallible, he is the head and we are the body, the head controls the whole body and not the other way around, in a holy sense the body can fail but the spirit/mind lives on. But also i do understand Jesus said darkness will never over come the church, which i take as she will never be fully overcome so she will never completely fail/be decieved, an element of the truth will always remain like in noahs day.

And renew the face of the church/world.

And something you should all consider yourselves is that we should defend the what we believe to be the truth vigorously and not aggressively, you will not only drive people interested away from the wings of the angels but you will also drive those whom are already converted and struggling away. Such an aggresive stance toward myself will be met with a brick wall and a solid foundation! You have been warned.