"Relationship" with God

[MarysLittleFlower]

Could you please clarify what you mean Lilllabettt? I'm sorry if I did something wrong. I'm trying to not post as much, honestly, by posting in only certain threads. If anything is wrong I take all the blame. 

To be honest I feel like I have been too controversial on the phorum, I'm sorry about that, and about annoying people.  

[AccountDeleted]

Could you please clarify what you mean Lilllabettt? I'm sorry if I did something wrong. I'm trying to not post as much, honestly, by posting in only certain threads. If anything is wrong I take all the blame. 

To be honest I feel like I have been too controversial on the phorum, I'm sorry about that, and about annoying people.  

Don't stress about it MLF. She was probably just having a bad day. You and I were having a stimulating discussion and at least as far as I was concerned, there was nothing controversial about our posts. I think we are a good example of how two people can have similar yet differing opinions and still keep it civil. We come from different backgrounds, different experiences and different generations, and yet still we can discuss the central point, which is loving Jesus.

Maybe you do post a lot, but I was trying to keep up with you until it got too late, and I had to go to bed. LOL Now I have to go off to my volunteer work so catch you later.   

Edited August 10, 2015 by nunsense

[beatitude]

Could you please clarify what you mean Lilllabettt? I'm sorry if I did something wrong. I'm trying to not post as much, honestly, by posting in only certain threads. If anything is wrong I take all the blame. 

To be honest I feel like I have been too controversial on the phorum, I'm sorry about that, and about annoying people.  

I think she was saying that some people seem to be picking holes in everything you write and it isn't fair on you.

As for you being too controversial, I've never noticed that. I think your one problem is that you worry a bit too much.

[Lilllabettt]

Could you please clarify what you mean Lilllabettt? I'm sorry if I did something wrong. I'm trying to not post as much, honestly, by posting in only certain threads. If anything is wrong I take all the blame. 

To be honest I feel like I have been too controversial on the phorum, I'm sorry about that, and about annoying people.  

Relax, you are not the target. Repeat you are not the target. I think you are the one getting picked on. 

Because you are contributing a lot, I'm maybe not abreast on what is going on with you in every thread. So maybe my sample is skewed and my impression is not accurate. But from the threads I have seen, my impression is that whenever you post certain people are always right there, almost following you around, giving you the business and pick, pick, picking.  

If penance is important to you in how you have a relationship with God, that's cool. 100% genuine Catholic. It's not a reason for me to tell you that:  you are clearly at the beginning stage of spiritual development, ps im glad MY relationship with Jesus is all about love (unlike yours) pps maybe I was like you 30 years ago.

... all things told to you on this thread, and MAN ALIVE is that one fine lookin high horse.

 

 

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thank you for clarifying Lilllabettt and Beatitude and for the response Nunsense. Honestly I probably need to be humbled and I'm OK with people saying I'm a beginner though I'm grateful for kind words to me. I wouldn't want to blame Nunsense either. I guess I am not angry at anyone here and each of you said something that is kind to me.

I do feel like I'm controversial haha but that's OK I just don't want to be an annoyance. Regarding my relationship with God, sometimes aspects of it do get discussed here, but I mean - I have an  SD who knows me very well and many things I only share with him.

Sometimes my nature struggles against being analyzed but I'm trying to remember that others may be better Catholics than me and I can listen to the advice. God blesses me very much in my relationship with Him though, which is more beautiful than I could hope for, and I'm happy with what He gives me. I am very happy with where He has lead me whether others share it or not, agree or not, and whether im a beginner or not. God bless  

Edited August 10, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[BarbTherese]

 

Sometimes my nature struggles against being analyzed but I'm trying to remember that others may be better Catholics than me and I can listen to the advice. God blesses me very much in my relationship with Him though, which is more beautiful than I could hope for, and I'm happy with what He gives me. I am very happy with where He has lead me whether others share it or not, agree or not, and whether im a beginner or not. God bless  

Rest easy, MLF - probably few of us like to be analysed, while the qualities of some members or even all of us does seem to show in posts without much reference to the words posted.  There will always be far better Catholics than oneself and probably all of us need to identify and listen to sound advice, while all advice is not of necessity sound.  A priest ordained many long  years told me once that he just stumbles along, and I think probably most all or some of us do.  I sure do anyway and used to call myself "God's yoyo" (up and down, up and down)  As for the rest of what you said above................ just totally beautiful! 

Keep on keeping on, your posts to me are sometimes incredibly beautiful, if not always incredibly beautiful

Transparency! Simplicity! Humility!

Edited August 10, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[beatitude]

Sometimes my nature struggles against being analyzed but I'm trying to remember that others may be better Catholics than me and I can listen to the advice. God blesses me very much in my relationship with Him though, which is more beautiful than I could hope for, and I'm happy with what He gives me. I am very happy with where He has lead me whether others share it or not, agree or not, and whether im a beginner or not. God bless  

I think this is a good approach. to have. St Benedict wrote to his monks, "In the school of the Lord's service we are beginners all our lives," which is a huge comfort to me - after all, no one expects the first-grade class to do spherical geometry.  It also means that we can learn something good from anyone, because a beginner can find useful new insights wherever she looks.

When I did a live-in at a Carmel the novice mistress told me that someone who has truly progressed far on her spiritual journey would never dream of thinking that she has progressed far. This also made a deep impression on me, and as the years gone by I've seen the truth of it - whenever I start thinking that I'm getting on nicely something happens to trip me up and bring me back to earth with a bump.

[MarysLittleFlower]

That's very true Beatitude! Thank you Barbara, that's very kind and I have to say I am often edified by your posts. Both of you! God bless you  

Edited August 10, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[AccountDeleted]

The sledgehammer worked. Lil  has spoken. Must be true and righteous.  

Nuff said. 

[beatitude]

The sledgehammer worked. Lil  has spoken. Must be true and righteous.  

Nuff said. 

Nunsense, I've benefited a lot from things you've posted over the years - you often have good information and sound advice to share. You've written some things that are just beautiful and that I went back to reread because I found them so helpful. I also agree with you on most religious questions. (I'm cautious of extreme penances too, for example.)

But in a minority of posts you do come across as patronising and sometimes as know-it-allish. I recognise it because I have the same weaknesses and there are times when I could easily get medals for the same thing, so I am not judging you for it. But you don't seem to feel you even have a problem - a couple of other Phatmassers have objected to being condescended to lately, and your response always seems to be along the lines of "sorry not sorry". I don't think I've ever seen you admit you were wrong or make an apology that wasn't basically "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm right." If several different people are finding you to be condescending at times, I think there is a good chance that you actually are being so, even if you don't mean to be.

[AccountDeleted]

beatitude, you have posted a very kind response to my post, so I feel obliged to respond, even though I didn’t want to make this about me. I was very hurt by Lilllabettt’s comments, especially since she wasn’t straightforward and her posts seemed passive aggressive and just plain spiteful, as if I had done something mean on purpose. Instead of addressing me directly or sending me a PM, she made these vague accusations and the followed that up with a personal attack on what I had written. 

You say I don't apologise for coming across as know-it-allish. Well, I am sorry that I am perceived that way, but it is certainly never my motivation or intention and I find it strange to think that I should apologise for something that I didn't intend to do. I have certainly apologised for people being upset at what I write, because I don’t want to upset anyone, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I think what I wrote was wrong. Maybe one of the reasons that I come across as 'know-it-all' is because I do have a wealth of experience and knowledge and reading and experience - which is only to be expected at my advanced age and years of living in convents, and reading. I usually try to remember to include phrases like ‘in my opinion’ or ‘well, that’s how I feel’. There are people on phatmass who seem much more superior and dogmatic to me, stating opinions as if they were facts. I am just stating my opinions, and if I have been repeating them, it is because MLF has been repeating hers and I have been trying to find if we could come to some kind of meeting of the minds. I respect her right to state her views, just as I had hoped that others would let me state mine, without name calling.

My style is probably a bit too 'preachy' at times, but I think that might be because I was a professor for many years and probably still get a bit into lecture mode. I was trying to be helpful to MLF. She posts an inordinately large volume on phatmass and I got the feeling that she was really looking for communication with others. I happened to have time to respond so tried to keep up with her.  She responded to every one of my posts, so I kept responding to hers. I didn't realise that this would be perceived as picking on her. As a woman who is more than twice her age, I was hoping that I could help focus her on the positive aspects of God's love rather than simply on the suffering. She has written posts that made it appear she was confused and in pain, and I was hoping to offer an alternative view to suffering. I know I am not going to change her mind though any more than she is going to change mind. But none of what I wrote was designed to distress her, and if she had said anything to me, to this effect, I would have stopped responding to her posts. But I felt it was mutually interesting, especially since she said she just wants to talk about Jesus to people.

Anyway, the horse has been beaten to death and I think it best if I simply not respond to MLF’s posts any more, as I certainly don’t want to make her feel she has to constantly defend her point of view (which it seems I must have been doing) and I certainly don’t want to be attacked for my motivation when I know that I didn’t mean things the way they were perceived. Sorry if this doesn’t count as an apology either because I am not sorry for being me or saying what I think – only for causing distress and a drama on VS.

Feel free to PM me if there is anything more to be said about this. I respect and admire you too. Thank you for being kind.

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Ah I feel I have caused all this... I'm sorry. In any case I'm involved and its because of me. I wouldn't want there to be lack of peace because of me. I just wanted to say the reason I posted so much on this thread is because I just enjoy the topic and when I was responding to you Nunsense, I didn't want to over post but I feel its rude to not reply to people if they write to me.

Nunsense I know you have much experience, more than me. I often like things you write. I'm sure I have much to learn. However I'm not in pain just because I'm drawn to these topics, rather - I'm not in more pain than others. Sometimes things get lost in translation online...

For me suffering is just a way to love Jesus as He has loved me. (All of us). It doesn't come from depression. In fact even when I feel His love I think of consoling Him. I'm only saying this to clarify because I believe you were trying to help.

lastly, ...I hope this wouldn't come across as preachy cause I can sound preachy myself - as all are aware. I think even if we've come a long way with Jesus and know a lot, its very hard to understand perfectly another's relationship with God. I am not angry with you for saying that my interest in the cross makes me a beginner, because I want to learn humility. I'm sure I need to be humbled and thank you for humbling me. However I also think souls aredifferent. St Gemma loved suffering when she was in transforming union. Clearly I'm not there. But I see this as just something that's part of my spirituality - I mean thinking of Jesus' pain.

Probably I am a beginner, but who knows maybe I'll keep this inclination. I personally think so because I believe its about love. I'm not asking you to take back what you said but my path might be different just because we are different people there's a lot I don't share with anyone except my SD.

For this reason I just think its good to be careful on the forums, since only a part of a person gets expressed... I don't mean just you specifically but I've noticed an element of spiritual direction sometimes happening on these forums. I think itwould be good for us, me included, to treat each person here as a mystery known to God. I mean this for us all. God bless you

[AccountDeleted]

Ah I feel I have caused all this... I'm sorry. In any case I'm involved and its because of me. I wouldn't want there to be lack of peace because of me. I just wanted to say the reason I posted so much on this thread is because I just enjoy the topic and when I was responding to you Nunsense, I didn't want to over post but I feel its rude to not reply to people if they write to me.

Nunsense I know you have much experience, more than me. I often like things you write. I'm sure I have much to learn. However I'm not in pain just because I'm drawn to these topics, rather - I'm not in more pain than others. Sometimes things get lost in translation online...

For me suffering is just a way to love Jesus as He has loved me. (All of us). It doesn't come from depression. In fact even when I feel His love I think of consoling Him. I'm only saying this to clarify because I believe you were trying to help.

lastly, ...I hope this wouldn't come across as preachy cause I can sound preachy myself - as all are aware. I think even if we've come a long way with Jesus and know a lot, its very hard to understand perfectly another's relationship with God. I am not angry with you for saying that my interest in the cross makes me a beginner, because I want to learn humility. I'm sure I need to be humbled and thank you for humbling me. However I also think souls aredifferent. St Gemma loved suffering when she was in transforming union. Clearly I'm not there. But I see this as just something that's part of my spirituality - I mean thinking of Jesus' pain.

Probably I am a beginner, but who knows maybe I'll keep this inclination. I personally think so because I believe its about love. I'm not asking you to take back what you said but my path might be different just because we are different people there's a lot I don't share with anyone except my SD.

For this reason I just think its good to be careful on the forums, since only a part of a person gets expressed... I don't mean just you specifically but I've noticed an element of spiritual direction sometimes happening on these forums. I think itwould be good for us, me included, to treat each person here as a mystery known to God. I mean this for us all. God bless you

 

I told myself I wouldn't get sucked into discussions with you anymore because I am the one who gets blamed for the way the conversation turns out, but one of the big misunderstandings here is that I didn't actually say you were a beginner. I quoted from a text that described the purgative way as the way of the beginner. And what you described sounded like the purgative way to me. In your early posts you talked a lot about fear and pain and suffering. As we went along, some of this got explained to me, but you also used words like dark night and dryness etc, so I drew my own conclusions, which might have been erroneous. If I was in error, then it was simply a misunderstanding, which on the Internet is not rare.

We are all beginners in learning to love God, but St John described three stages of spiritual development and he used the words I quoted - not me. I simply said that I have years more of experience, and that's fact and truth, and St Therese said that humility is truth. Do I pretend that I don't have the experiences or knowledge I do? Is that more humble? I am simply not a beginner in some areas. And I am in others. But I won't pretend to be other than what I am to earn the good opinion of others. God knows my heart and he knows what is truth and he also knows my motivation in what I post.

Please don't feel you have to respond to each and every post that either I or anyone else makes. It isn't necessary unless you want to. I tried to respond to every one of yours and got accused of following you around just to pick on you. You wanted to talk about spirituality and Jesus and so I complied but now you seem to be complaining that it is becoming like spiritual direction around here. You confuse me. But that's ok. It's over now. The finger has writ ...

“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”

― Omar Khayyám

Edited August 10, 2015 by nunsense

[MarysLittleFlower]

Well let's all just talk about Jesus not about each other that's what I meant 

[Lilllabettt]

The sledgehammer worked. Lil  has spoken. Must be true and righteous.  

Nuff said. 

Chuh, nunsense, I on purpose did not mention your name in my  first post. I feel like lots of people have been batting MLF around lately, so I figure a “you all” would be general enough without pointing any specific fingers.

I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings. I am quiet and gentle in real life, but all the repressed sass just explodes on the internets I guess. I don’t know if your online persona matches your offline one. Sometimes you seem obtuse or just difficult.  For example, when you are “disagreeing” with someone and they say something along the lines of “I guess we’re all different” that should read as a flashing neon sign saying “I’m done now, let’s agree to disagree.” Failing to pick that up and back off makes you look stingy or like you need to have the last word. That cue seems obvious to me. Do you have a problem irl with social cues? If so, that could be a thing.

Being honest here, I think the St. John of the Cross/ dark night/penance/ etc. thing is a sore spot for you.  People older than you in religion told you your interpretation was wrong and inexperienced, so you have built up a defensive posture about this where you call to mind all the ways you are not wrong or inexperienced.  And when all that you have called to mind goes through your keyboard and into the world it makes it seem like you are saying you are all that and a bag of chips, poop on everyone else.  Recognizing that you have a sore spot is a good way to avoid problems. I have a personal sitch with the police where I am heavily biased in favor of the police, just from my personal experience. So when I get involved in an argument about cops I have to check myself before I wreck myself.  

Anyway. I am against mob violence. We do this on phatmass. Somebody comes with an overly rigid or ridiculous idea and then we don’t let them forget about it for a year or two. Just keep pick pick picking. I remember that happening with phuturpriest. I agree with the mob almost all the time but at a certain point its enough already. Just let it goooooooooooooooooooo