Failing at religious life

[Antigonos]

 

(Plus Judaism totally innoculates you against Jesus—and leaves a big gaping hole where Mary is concerned. She didn't even have to sneak in!  )

You don't need surrogate parents when you have God.   Jews have incredibly close relationships with God Himself; don't need anyone else.  You should have heard my mother praying -- it was a lot like a long distance phone call with a member of the family, and believe me, God couldn't get a word in edgewise!

[BarbTherese]

Really good post, SNJM.
 

[MarysLittleFlower]

You don't need surrogate parents when you have God.   Jews have incredibly close relationships with God Himself; don't need anyone else.  You should have heard my mother praying -- it was a lot like a long distance phone call with a member of the family, and believe me, God couldn't get a word in edgewise!

Well of course we don't see Jesus as a surrogate parent though, but as God Himself  

[Nunsuch]

But if you've ever heard a traditional Catholic mother talk with Mary, she is definitely confiding in her mother!  

[Nunsense]

I would like to tell you: YOU HAVE NOT FAILED. I also left a religious congregation, after deep thought, reflection and discernment. It's not easy and of course, we all share a commn bond in that we have taken to heart to what other people have said, how we have been treated (like "failures") and the rest. That's normal, but as time passes, and you learn more about yourself, you will see how ridiculous that is!!! We cannot pretend to know the  mind of God. And feeling the "vocation" of being called to greater intimacy with Him can in fact be just that - call to greater intimacy, but maybe not in religious life as you experienced it. There is a lot of romanticism about religious life in the general populas, and certainly amongst Catholics. I have worked with some very badly wounded people who also left religious life, and their wounds came from what they encountered within the life. I think of what Nunsense disclosed in sharing what she was told - how could her spirit have been expected to soar and grow if that nun was living with her!? (I hope she wasn't a Novice Mistress!) We are all different, but I want to encourage you to take a step back and look at the whole of your life and know that God does not make mistakes. The wounds we create in one another are disturbing at best & I don't want you to get discouraged. There is a reason you are not there and that too, was God. It doesn't mean you were a failure, it means you learned a lot and are invited to keep growing. Others have said some very helpful things - I hope you will follow some of the advice. I would also like to tell you again that there does seem to be overtly romanticized version of religious life on this board as people begin to prepare to enter. Nunsense's comparison to being cheated on is perfect! We tend to look at ourselves (and trying to understand, begin to blame ourselves with hundreds of "what ifs?") & I will take that analogy a step further  - while our marriage is in ruins because of the cheating husband, we often look around and become mesmerized by all the wonderful, happy marriages surrounding us! Of course, that's what we see from the outside because those wonderful happy marriages aren't talking about the secret of alcoholism, cheating or even abuse. (the Duggars are a great example - look at how people have attempted to follow them, believing they were/are the perfect family. Only now are we seeing differently.)  Which, of course, does nothing except further ruin our own self image and confidence! If you are really feeling like a failure & can't seem to shake it, I strongly suggest you take a break from VS. It will only serve as a trigger for these feelings. I love that so many who have been through this mention being unable to go into a Church, or attend Mass. That is the truth of this experience for so many, so advice, dearly well meaning & loving, urging you to spend more time in Adoration might sound perfectly sound and healing, it is very rare for that practice to be a comfort for someone who is describing your feelings and thoughts. Please be gentle with yourself and find an experienced, mature, good SD. In the meantime, many here have revealed wonderful thoughts and experiences. Take some us up (I include myself) in PMing us. May God bless and heal you. 

Rose

You mentioned my post  SNJM so I am going to mention yours! Yours is a fantastic post, and especially the part about the 'well meaning and loving' people who encourage you to spend more time in Adoration or Mass etc. It isn't that they aren't right theoretically, but as you say, it is rare for those things to be a comfort when they can also be the source of great pain. The memories they bring up of doing the same things in the convent makes it almost unbearably painful and, at least for myself, resulted in instant tears almost every time. 

That's why I said that it's almost impossible for someone who hasn't been through the experience to really get to the heart of the matter and understand why these things often don't help. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be tried, but it might just be that they make the problem worse because they focus on the very source of the problem, God Himself (although this is just perceived reality, not actual reality). When I walked the Camino (right after being asked to leave a convent), there were times when I could see that there was no one ahead of me and no one behind me on the trail as far as the eye could see. At these times I often looked up to the sky and screamed at God in anger and pain about everything that had happened. I would accuse Him of being deceitful for luring me into a situation where it appeared I did not belong, and I would scream that it 'wasn't fair' because I had done everything I was told and more, and yet still I was found lacking and inadequate (these were my feelings, perhaps not reality). After the anger, often came great sorrow and intense suffering of soul at feeling so cast off into nothingness - always followed by copious amounts of tears.

Sound dramatic and over the top? Agreed, but feelings can be overwhelming, especially when deeply held hopes and dreams are shattered. And if one perceives God or the Church to be the source of that suffering, then sometimes going to Church or Adoration or any other practice that used to give peace, just doesn't help, it makes it worse. At least for awhile.

I second your suggestion that a good, mature SD can help, as can some friends or family, depending on their objectivity and ability to support in a non-judgmental way what one is going through. I was fortunate to have a very loving family, and I found a truly amazing SD who helped me to find my way back. She actually said many of the things that Lilllabettt did in her post, like -

'But the uniqueness of your Cross means the wisdom and insight you can gain from your experience is also unique in all the world. No one will ever experience what you have, just as you have, ever again. That means it is a priceless treasure. Don't waste it. Make a record. Put it under the microscope. Squeeze every drop of knowledge and understanding you can from it - and see how you can pass that on to benefit mankind. Once you are gone we will never have the chance to learn the unique wisdom of your experience ever again.'

She didn’t say it exactly the same way and it took more than one session with this SD to reinforce the value of my own uniqueness but she eventually got through to me that God wanted me to be me -  or as she put it, ‘the unique wisdom that God has placed within you’. Then, over time, the healing began. It can’t be forced and there will be relapses of the pain (there were for me at least), but one of the beautiful things about life is that it is constantly changing, and things move on. The intensity of feelings fade and eventually it actually seems as if things are going to be alright. For me it helped to keep the lines of communication with God open, whether I was angry or hurt or sad, at least He was still real for me. And eventually we reconciled. The marriage wasn’t irretrievably broken down, just a little bruised for awhile. Now I feel we are closer than ever before. So as Winston Churchill said: 

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

I think that experiencing pain being in church can definitely happen. I think that we shouldn't assume though that it is the same for all. I don't know I think the ways in which people deal with grief is different. Each one has a unique approach that would help. When I felt as if I was being rejected by God, it was a constant source of torment spiritually but I wished so much that He would reassure me. Going to help to other people made me feel misunderstood - not through their fault. I thought only God can understand - but at the same time my difficulty was how I felt about Him. Going to church became a hope for me just to ask Jesus to somehow reassure me and help me understand that my feelings are wrong. Ultimately He did. I think these are just individual differences but I'd say there are times when prayer feels like the only hope, because conversations with people don't seem to give enough healing. I'm not saying this is everyone's experience, but I think its a possibility. 

Of course I am not speaking from the experience of being in a convent and then having to leave. But I struggled with feelings of "being rejected" by God and like I was losing my greatest hope in life. Probably its more intense if you've actually been in a convent. I don't know how I'd react then. But I guess it can be true that people react differently? 

[Feankie]

I am speaking from MY experience as a SD here.......to a woman, every directee who has come to me after leaving religious life has had the same reaction in Adoration, Rosary, Mass....even praying the LOTH hours privately.  It is unbearably painful as thoughts naturally return to the Abbey, Convent, Monastery.  It's separation anxiety and abandonment after the fact.  Some women have simply thrown up their hands after months of agonizing introspection and asking God why and left the Church entirely. It's a tough situation and those who have not been through it really have no idea what's it's like.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Probably.. Like I said I'm maybe speaking from a different perspective. If there are people who feel differently maybe they're in the minority 

[Nunsense]

I am speaking from MY experience as a SD here.......to a woman, every directee who has come to me after leaving religious life has had the same reaction in Adoration, Rosary, Mass....even praying the LOTH hours privately.  It is unbearably painful as thoughts naturally return to the Abbey, Convent, Monastery.  It's separation anxiety and abandonment after the fact.  Some women have simply thrown up their hands after months of agonizing introspection and asking God why and left the Church entirely. It's a tough situation and those who have not been through it really have no idea what's it's like.

FC, I agree with you completely. It's not that those who don't have the particular experience can't 'imagine' what it might be like or compare it to similar experiences they might have had, but despite their sympathy and/or empathy, there is truly no way to really understand what the pain feels like and that's why their advice may not always be helpful, unless they at least have some SD training and/or experience in dealing with this type of experience. There is a great difference between worrying or feeling that God 'might' not want you in a convent, to actually living in one, having been through all the long application process, and then the entrance, clothing etc, and THEN being told that you have to leave. If one chooses to leave on good terms because both sides have discerned this, then it can be a different and more positive experience, but when everything in you wants to stay, but you are told you have to leave - that is basically the definition of rejection. And to feel rejected by God like that, after being told that religious life is the highest state, and feeling 'called' by God in this way, well, it's like razor blades slicing up one's insides. 

I can imagine what it might be like to be a heroin or meth addict who is going through the pain of withdrawal (maybe not a good analogy but it's what springs to mind) and I can feel great sympathy for them and want to help them and suggest various things, but only another former addict (or perhaps someone who has spent a lot of time around addicts) can truly understand what the pain is like and what might be helpful and how hard it is to go through. That is why so many drug counselors at rehab facilities are former addicts - they understand from personal experience.

But those who haven't gone through being rejected by a convent can be the support network for those who have, if they are non judgmental and allow the person to grieve and/or be angry and/or feel the need to avoid certain experiences (like pray the LOH etc) -- until they are ready, in their own time, to do so. Unconditional, loving support from family and friends, and a great SD are what got me through the experience. Simply saying that 'God loves you.' or 'This is all for the best.' or 'The suffering will bring you closer to Christ.' didn't cut it with me. It might help some people as we are all different but it certainly would not have helped me and I know many others who have been through this too - and are no longer practicing Catholics simply because they couldn't bear the pain of entering a Church and then others made them feel guilty for not being able to 'trust God' or 'accept His will'. I was one of the fortunate ones who had close family and friends and a great SD to help me. When I told her that praying the Divine Office made me cry, she told me not to pray it until I wanted to. It was like pulling at a scab over and over again and it just kept bleeding. But over time, the scab healed and the things that used to make me cry, don't do so anymore. 

But I needed to go through all the stages of grief, until I could find my balance again. Because I live alone, I spent a lot of time talking to God. I won't call it prayer, because it wasn't the typical praying to God, there was a lot of anger and blaming and crying etc, but I suppose that's what it was, praying. Over time, I even started listening to his side of the story,and that's probably when the real healing began, but it took time. And I certainly didn't need anyone telling me how to heal - I just needed them to support me unconditionally while it was happening.

I am concerned about freedomreigns because she hasn't posted again since she started this topic. I did send a pm but no answer. So please, let's all just keep her in our prayers while she sorts through her own feelings and finds the things that help her heal. That's probably the best we can do for anyone.

 

 

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

I think there are differences between these two experiences, but speaking from my own experience, facing an obstacle to being a nun after feeling called to it for years can feel like a rejection and be very painful. There are many people in that situation.

The difference is of course that there aren't all the memories. The memories can make it more painful for sure so im not discouting that.

But it can still be painful to just be around things associated with religious life. I'm not saying its identical, but it can be a big deal for people too. There are people who face health related obstacles etc. In my case I chose to just believe that the obstacle may get overcome, but I don't know what would happen for sure. Anyway that's all I'm going to say. I hope freedomreigns is OK too and I totally agree with praying for her. God knows what each person truly needs. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Nunsense]

I think there are differences between these two experiences, but speaking from my own experience, facing an obstacle to being a nun after feeling called to it for years can feel like a rejection and be very painful. There are people like that too. The difference is of course that there aren't all the memories etc. But it can still be painful to just be around things associated with religious life anyway. I'm not saying its identical, but it can be a big deal for people too. There are people who face health related obstacles etc. In my case I chose to just believe that the obstacle may get overcome, but I don't know what would happen for sure. Anyway that's all I'm going to say. I hope freedomreigns is OK too and I totally agree with praying for her. God knows what the person truly needs. 

MLF- I'm not saying in any way that your experiences aren't similar or painful, just that it's the difference between dating someone for awhile and then being rejected, or actually getting engaged,moving in with the Beloved's 'in-laws' and being on the verge of marriage (especially after being Clothed) and then being rejected. It's similar but the depth and intensity of the rejection is different. Imagining living in community and then not entering just isn't the same as living 24/7 with your sisters for a year or more and then being told they don't want you anymore. I simply don't know how to explain the difference any better than I have. 

I hope you do have the opportunity to live in community if that is a dream of yours, and if it doesn't happen, I am sure with your faith, that you will be able to accept it. I do hope you never have to experience what we are talking about here.

[Lilllabettt]

 actually getting engaged,moving in with the Beloved's 'in-laws' and being on the verge of marriage (especially after being Clothed) and then being rejected.]

My mother was not a practicing Catholic, but she was the one who got this. I cried every day for a year. I woke up every day thinking I heard the morning bell and then realizing all over again what had happened. When others began sighing loudly at my inability to "get over it," my Mother scolded them, asking them how they would feel if they had been "left at the altar."

Not to be dramatic, but in my case it felt very much as though God Himself had left me at the altar! And pardon me, but it's sort of a dirtbag move isn't it, leaving a girl at the altar. Most people hearing of such a thing take the girl's part, and heap scorn on the head of the person who treated her so shabbily. Of course, God is not a dirtbag. But I didn't much like the advice people gave me about going to adoration, saying the Office, Rosary, etc. People would say that -- but what I would hear is them taking His "side" and implying that I must be in the wrong and I had better hurry to make up with Him.

I think it is important that people in my situation be given permission to be angry - bitter, resentful, etc. And sad. You know, I am glad I am where I am now, and I wouldn't change it. I don't wish things were different. But it is still a sad thing that happened to me. And so I will always remember it with a tinge of sadness. And that's OK. It was a sad thing. Being angry is OK too. If the circumstances of a situation are incomprehensible and infuriating, that is a time when anger is appropriate. It is ok to not understand, and it is ok to "never" understand.

Not being a religious, I can't speak directly to the question of how religious look at people who are sent away. I think there were moments in my formation where the message I heard was definitely one saying that: religious life is the superior calling, it is harder than lay life, the bigger sacrifice, we are different from lay people, we are separate from them. Whether this was the intended message I do not know, but it was the one I received, and so that was part of the pain when I left, is processing the fact that one afternoon I was this chosen, special person, thanking God every day for Him having picked me, thinking daily of the incredible mercy and love God had shown in selecting me to be His spouse--- and two days later I was "just" a lay person. 

Now I know that God was looking after me the whole time, and that I have been chosen in a very special way to have the exceedingly rare experience of being rejected from religious life. Very, very few people are chosen to share in the Lord's Passion in this way. Once again, not to be dramatic  - but it is a meditation for me on the Way of the Cross, when Jesus is stripped of His garments, to think of the very real way in which I was "stripped" of the holy habit.  That is just one small piece of the wisdom the good Lord has in store for me as a result of my experience, I am sure. So I would like to reiterate to freedomreigns - if she/he is still reading -  you really are no less chosen, no less special. Fewer people are called to your experience than are called to religious life.

 

 

[Nunsense]

My mother was not a practicing Catholic, but she was the one who got this. I cried every day for a year. I woke up every day thinking I heard the morning bell and then realizing all over again what had happened. When others began sighing loudly at my inability to "get over it," my Mother scolded them, asking them how they would feel if they had been "left at the altar."

Not to be dramatic, but in my case it felt very much as though God Himself had left me at the altar! And pardon me, but it's sort of a dirtbag move isn't it, leaving a girl at the altar. Most people hearing of such a thing take the girl's part, and heap scorn on the head of the person who treated her so shabbily. Of course, God is not a dirtbag. But I didn't much like the advice people gave me about going to adoration, saying the Office, Rosary, etc. People would say that -- but what I would hear is them taking His "side" and implying that I must be in the wrong and I had better hurry to make up with Him.

I think it is important that people in my situation be given permission to be angry - bitter, resentful, etc. And sad. You know, I am glad I am where I am now, and I wouldn't change it. I don't wish things were different. But it is still a sad thing that happened to me. And so I will always remember it with a tinge of sadness. And that's OK. It was a sad thing. Being angry is OK too. If the circumstances of a situation are incomprehensible and infuriating, that is a time when anger is appropriate. It is ok to not understand, and it is ok to "never" understand.

Not being a religious, I can't speak directly to the question of how religious look at people who are sent away. I think there were moments in my formation where the message I heard was definitely one saying that: religious life is the superior calling, it is harder than lay life, the bigger sacrifice, we are different from lay people, we are separate from them. Whether this was the intended message I do not know, but it was the one I received, and so that was part of the pain when I left, is processing the fact that one afternoon I was this chosen, special person, thanking God every day for Him having picked me, thinking daily of the incredible mercy and love God had shown in selecting me to be His spouse--- and two days later I was "just" a lay person. 

Now I know that God was looking after me the whole time, and that I have been chosen in a very special way to have the exceedingly rare experience of being rejected from religious life. Very, very few people are chosen to share in the Lord's Passion in this way. Once again, not to be dramatic  - but it is a meditation for me on the Way of the Cross, when Jesus is stripped of His garments, to think of the very real way in which I was "stripped" of the holy habit.  That is just one small piece of the wisdom the good Lord has in store for me as a result of my experience, I am sure. So I would like to reiterate to freedomreigns - if she/he is still reading -  you really are no less chosen, no less special. Fewer people are called to your experience than are called to religious life.

 

 

Everything you have written resonates in my heart. I was never able to put the experience into words like this - 'being left at the altar'. I have tried all kinds of marriage related analogies, but this one is IT! And yes, everyone takes His side too! You certainly have a way with words.

Your conclusion is also spot on. It is a very special and very 'chosen' sort of relationship with God, But it is also like walking over burning coals in the pits of hell before one actually gets to the stage of being able to see it this way. Like you, I am not unhappy with where God has put me now, and I am not sorry I lived in religious life, but that does not negate the tremendous pain and suffering and sadness I had to go through to get to the peace and acceptance with where I am today. 

Thank you for putting into words what I keep trying to say, but say badly. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

MLF- I'm not saying in any way that your experiences aren't similar or painful, just that it's the difference between dating someone for awhile and then being rejected, or actually getting engaged,moving in with the Beloved's 'in-laws' and being on the verge of marriage (especially after being Clothed) and then being rejected. It's similar but the depth and intensity of the rejection is different. Imagining living in community and then not entering just isn't the same as living 24/7 with your sisters for a year or more and then being told they don't want you anymore. I simply don't know how to explain the difference any better than I have. 

I hope you do have the opportunity to live in community if that is a dream of yours, and if it doesn't happen, I am sure with your faith, that you will be able to accept it. I do hope you never have to experience what we are talking about here.

i see what you mean Nunsense, and of course I do agree there is a difference maybe I'm still just trying to understand and deal with my own experience. I think the dating analogy works very well for a discerner. Still... At some point discernment became not just 'dating' but - making a choice, making a private promise, and seeing no point in life except being His bride. Dating is like when you haven't made a choice yet When I felt like its impossible to carry out, (though now im trusting there is a way) I couldn't find a reason for my life as melodramatic as it sounds. I know this thread isn't about me so I promise I won't keep going on about me lol I'm saying this in case someone is reading who also never tried religious life, is facing an obstacle, but had moved beyond the point of 'dating' sort of discernment. Maybe theyd feel less alone. I also took comfort in the fact that there is another path that also doesn't involve marriage, as a consecrated person in the world. But the desire for the convent is still there. 

Of course I do agree that it must be much more painful to have been in a convent. I would be completely devastated - I don't know how I would survive it. I also agree its totally natural to grieve. If someone also felt angry I wouldn't guilt them over it. There are many emotions and I'd try to just be a friend. For myself I hope to always make acts of trust whatever happens and thank God for suffering, but I know my weakness and that I am not always successful. I wouldn't demand that from others though - its better to be hard on oneself than others. Lol OK back on topic now I think I was trying to figure something out hence all the posts. Done now... Yay.

Edited September 8, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Nunsense]

i see what you mean Nunsense, and of course I do agree there is a difference maybe I'm still just trying to understand and deal with my own experience. I think the dating analogy works very well for a discerner. At some point discernment became not just 'dating' but - making a choice, making a private promise, and seeing no point in life except being His bride. Dating is like when you haven't made a choice yet When I felt like its impossible to carry out, (though now im trusting there is a way) I couldn't find a reason for my life as melodramatic as it sounds. I know this thread isn't about me so I promise I won't keep going on about me lol I'm saying this in case someone is reading who also never tried religious life, is facing an obstacle, but had moved beyond the point of 'dating' sort of discernment. Of course I do agree that it must be much more painful to have been in a convent. I would be completely devastated I'm sure. I also agree its totally natural to grieve. If someone also felt angry I wouldn't guilt them over it. There are many emotions and I'd try to just be a friend. For myself I hope to always make acts of trust whatever happens and thank God for suffering, but I know my weakness and that I am not always successful. I wouldn't demand that from others though - its better to be hard on oneself than others. Lol OK back on topic now I think I was trying to figure something out hence all the posts. Done now... Yay.

MLF- Your struggles can not be minimized, as we all suffer in one degree or another and what seems like a very heavy cross for one might seem less for another, but each of our crosses is tailor made. I think that Lilllabettt's explanations in this thread have been spot on though, and having been through the experience herself, she really knows what the OP is talking about. Reading her posts over again might make it all even clearer.

We all like to think that we would be the 'saintly' ones who trust throughout everything, but in the end, no one knows just how they would respond to a very deep tragedy like being kicked out of a convent (harsh words but that's what it feels like). Those brave men and women of the military who go into battle never expect to come home with PTSD. It isn't caused by a lack of courage or failure to be a good soldier (sailor, pilot, whatever), but by the shock of an experience beyond comprehension and the physical and emotional reaction to that shock. Being rejected by God (which is what it feels like when one is asked to leave a community) is like a kick in the teeth, a complete rejection of the offering of love that is made when one enters. So, all that faith and trust and surrender and acceptance that we think we have before this experience happens, well, we just can't guarantee that what we imagine we would feel like, is what we would actually feel like if it happened.

But just as not all soldiers who go through horrific experiences come back with PTSD (although I would imagine there would be some emotional scars), there are certainly some, like yourself, who might come through this convent experience with trust and faith totally intact, ready to return to prayers and Adoration and all of that. I wasn't one of them, and many women I know aren't. But you could be. And the good news for those of us who have been through the suffering of this particular experience, it does seem to get better over time. 

 

[OnlySunshine]

After reading this thread in more detail, I really wish I had known more so I could have helped out a friend.  I was the first contact she made when she was "kicked out" of the convent and I had no idea what to say to her, though I tried my best.  Since I knew that she was returning home, we made plans to meet up at Mass.  I was worried when I got there and she did not show up.  I was thinking that she got in a car accident or became ill.  After Mass, I got an email from her saying that she wasn't able to go to Mass because she could not enter the Church - it was too painful.  I didn't understand it fully at the time since I've never been in that situation and my response was probably along the lines of what she didn't want to hear - to keep praying and, though it was hard, she would come through it.  I didn't receive a reply.  She disappeared.  I later learned that she had moved to a different state because she didn't want to be around people she knew - she felt like a failure to not only our pastor (who gave her a blessing at the end of Mass before she entered) but to everyone she knew at Church.  Her discernment was so public that it was traumatic when she was forced to come home and face everyone.  I can only imagine what it was like to have to tell people it didn't work out.  People mean well (I certainly did) but can do more harm than good, I guess, when the wound is so fresh. 

[Nunsense]

After reading this thread in more detail, I really wish I had known more so I could have helped out a friend.  I was the first contact she made when she was "kicked out" of the convent and I had no idea what to say to her, though I tried my best.  Since I knew that she was returning home, we made plans to meet up at Mass.  I was worried when I got there and she did not show up.  I was thinking that she got in a car accident or became ill.  After Mass, I got an email from her saying that she wasn't able to go to Mass because she could not enter the Church - it was too painful.  I didn't understand it fully at the time since I've never been in that situation and my response was probably along the lines of what she didn't want to hear - to keep praying and, though it was hard, she would come through it.  I didn't receive a reply.  She disappeared.  I later learned that she had moved to a different state because she didn't want to be around people she knew - she felt like a failure to not only our pastor (who gave her a blessing at the end of Mass before she entered) but to everyone she knew at Church.  Her discernment was so public that it was traumatic when she was forced to come home and face everyone.  I can only imagine what it was like to have to tell people it didn't work out.  People mean well (I certainly did) but can do more harm than good, I guess, when the wound is so fresh. 

Yes, for me, a big part of the pain was the humiliation of failing, and feeling that everyone was judging me as a failure. I didn't want to see those I knew and I didn't want to come back to phatmass at first. I had already been through so many criticisms just for trying to enter so many times that I didn't want to face what I thought would be the 'I told you so. You don't have a vocation. You've just been pushing your own will, not God's'  - from some of the people here.I didn't even know or care if they were right and it truly was all my fault, I just didn't want to hear it. So if you friend felt that she had to run away, that's perfectly understandable.There are phatmassers I know who have left the convent and never come back here to post, or done so under a different user name for that same reason.

Over time, I stopped caring what other people thought. Once I had re-established my relationship with God, it became less important to me what others thought of my efforts. I know that He knows my heart and the reason for everything I did or didn't do, and as long as He knows, how could I care what anyone else thinks about me? But that acceptance of myself didn't come easily or quickly. 

MM, none of us know exactly what another person is feeling or needing, so don't beat yourself up over something that you didn't understand. From what you've posted, your experience at leaving the convent was different than hers, so she just needed to respond in her own way. You wanted to be there for her, but she needed to go away and hide to lick her wounds. Maybe you will catch up with each other again and some future time, and you can share your experiences then. Meanwhile, I am sure you are keeping her in your prayers. When we can't help in any practical way, we can always do that!

[OnlySunshine]

Yes, for me, a big part of the pain was the humiliation of failing, and feeling that everyone was judging me as a failure. I didn't want to see those I knew and I didn't want to come back to phatmass at first. I had already been through so many criticisms just for trying to enter so many times that I didn't want to face what I thought would be the 'I told you so. You don't have a vocation. You've just been pushing your own will, not God's'  - from some of the people here.I didn't even know or care if they were right and it truly was all my fault, I just didn't want to hear it. So if you friend felt that she had to run away, that's perfectly understandable.There are phatmassers I know who have left the convent and never come back here to post, or done so under a different user name for that same reason.

Over time, I stopped caring what other people thought. Once I had re-established my relationship with God, it became less important to me what others thought of my efforts. I know that He knows my heart and the reason for everything I did or didn't do, and as long as He knows, how could I care what anyone else thinks about me? But that acceptance of myself didn't come easily or quickly. 

MM, none of us know exactly what another person is feeling or needing, so don't beat yourself up over something that you didn't understand. From what you've posted, your experience at leaving the convent was different than hers, so she just needed to respond in her own way. You wanted to be there for her, but she needed to go away and hide to lick her wounds. Maybe you will catch up with each other again and some future time, and you can share your experiences then. Meanwhile, I am sure you are keeping her in your prayers. When we can't help in any practical way, we can always do that!

Thanks.  It's hard knowing you want to help someone but you don't have experience to tell you what to say.  I've lost contact with her and I completely understand why now.  It isn't me - she's probably worried that everyone will think she's a failure.  I certainly don't, but sometimes, you just have to let people feel what they feel.  It's like depression, I guess, since I have been there.  So many well-meaning people will tell you to "snap out of it" or just "pray it away" but it's not that simple.  It takes months, perhaps years, to be in recovery, but it's an everyday uphill battle.  I can only hope that it will make the person suffering through it stronger in the end.  It's a different experience for everyone and no one heals the same. 

[BarbTherese]

Quite a few posts into this thread illustrate why LEONIE'S LONGING website seems to me such a very important ministry and a wander around their website is quite rewarding, including live chat and the means to contact their counsellor in complete confidence and via phone contact.  2013 Survey Results (Leonie's Longing Survey) (This survey are the various replies of those who have left religious life and their post RL experience).

I have been wondering too in reading this thread why no religious have contributed in response to the Opening Post - and unless I am mistaken, none has done so.  I am aware that they may have not read the OP/thread, or have their own very good reasons for not entering into the conversation.

 I too am concerned (prayer!) about the Opening Poster who posted the one opening post to this thread and has not posted anywhere else since.  She did post, however, that she still has her Faith for which she is grateful - but this does not at all of necessity lessen any quite human suffering even trauma involved in a post religious life experience. 

 

[SNJM]

Everybody has had some really wonderful thoughts and ways of relating them to each other on this board. Lillabet, I especially appreciated your personal sharing, as I did Nunsense's. Of course, I am just throwing out a few names because I think this has been a very respectful and wonderful thread, and I believe that all here have really listened. (I have read Phatmass from the very beginning and remained a lurker forever - that being said, I've seen some huge flare ups and I am so thrilled this hasn't happened here regarding such a difficult topic.) I would like to add that in leaving the convent, the cloister, religious life in general - - whatever the reason, there are good and sometimes very challenging relationships that are also in the mix of feelings. In addition to the feelings of "being left at the altar" - the physical sensation of being out of space and time ("Where's the bell? What am I supposed to be doing?"), there can be all sorts of feelings about the actual people one left behind. There are moments of feeling great betrayal, anger and at the same time, a great sadness and loss. Friendships cannot really be reconnected, and if they are, they will never be the same because "one's in, one's out." There is also the loss of the great intimacy one experienced with their Novice Mistress, Abbess, Prioress, Whomever!!! - I often tell my clients that this hurts so much because of that intimacy. We are in a world where EVERYTHING is discussed - sex lives, health, salaries (things that at one time were very private) and yet, in this culture of sharing all, God and our relationship with God is truly off limits!!! To know that you trusted someone completely with EVERYTHING and then left - again - the reason is inconsequential - this rupture creates a truly deep wound in one's heart and soul, and in the beginning, this hole is almost so deep it seems impossible to describe - grief doesn't quite seem to do it justice, If in fact the person that one related all their most intimate thoughts, prayers, hopes, dreams to -  was the one who was responsible for their departure (presuming it wasn't jointly decided) - well, then, I think everybody reading this can imagine the pain and ache this would create. Mixed feelings is an understatement, and it's a hard thing to understand that we can FEEL one thing and THINK one thing at THE SAME TIME. The heart and the head are sometimes not in sync. I'm so glad that people have been sharing openly and there has been a deep thoughtfulness and respect.

Lastly, I just read what Barbara Therese wrote - and yes, you posed a good question at the end of your post. Your question supports one of the reasons I originally suggested that if someone were in the midst of deep suffering, as the OP seems to be, VS might not be the best place to be. I have seen many Religious here (as well as posters) who are really promoting Vocations (well, it is called Vocation Station) and the reality of some of the pains and hardships which come out of our broken human nature are not really discussed. We've all read A Right To Be Merry and A Story of A Soul, My Beloved or In This House of Brede and sighed at the romanticism of these images; yet the shadow side of "The Life" gets lost in the imagery that captures the heart and imagination. There is a reason Saint Therese was canonized. We can read about the Sister who was so mean to her and sort of pass that by, but when it happens to you, day in and day out, and YOU are the one getting your face splashed with filthy water or being made to do something against common sense because "it's The Rule," we then realize it DOES take a saint - especially if you can't get in a car and drive away or get some space! This is especially hard for those who have been in cloistered life (those people I have interacted with who come out of cloistered life really do have a terrible time for all the reasons I mentioned above). 

I think this is a very important topic, and I enjoy seeing those who were "in," and  now "out" able to look back on their experience with the eyes of wisdom and faithfulness - and still, these are the very ones who often respect and enjoy the very romanticism I am talking about. The wisdom which resides in their hearts allows them to see the beauty, the contagious fever someone might have as their world opens to the millions of possibilities of where to go, what to do, names, titles, etc., and I don't think of any of us who have gone through this begrudge anybody of those feelings because we were once there. Eventually, as all things do, the pain does fade away and it becomes part of the delicious person who God created; and you will see that all this suffering, loneliness and pain really polished you into something quite exquisite. But it does take time, and I pray through all of this sharing, we will see each other with new eyes and affirm each person's journey to Christ as something unique and beautiful. I especially pray that we will be tender and gentle with those in a different place than we are - one can never know how much a difference we can make by just "being there."