What Are Your Thoughts On This Meme?

[Peace]

Just now, Cam42 said:

There is a fly in the ointment; hence the hypothetical.  The answer is nonsense.  Literally, because there is no circumstance in which the outcome you list is the case.  It's called a Genetic fallacy.

1) I am not sure how I have committed a genetic fallacy when I have not drawn or suggested any conclusions.

2) A hypothetical situation does not have to be capable of existing in reality in order for it to be answered, or in order for it to generate valuable discussion. Many philosophers and moral theologians pose hypothetical situations that do not exist.

3) The hypothetical is certainly possible. Let's say that Marco Rubio is elected. That does not mean that he will be able to put a judge on the court that will reverse Roe v. Wade. The fact that he is opposed to abortion does not mean that he will be able to do anything about it. Let's say that Marco Rubio is against mandatory paid leave for new mothers, and vetoes a law that attempts to mandate it. That might result in someone choosing to have an abortion who might otherwise not have. There are plenty of Republican candidates (if not most) who oppose mandatory paid leave for new mothers. The hypothetical is very much capable of being true.

[SaintOfVirtue]

On 11/24/2015, 11:08:50, Josh said:

Logical fallacy: argument from analogy.

[Ice_nine]

8 minutes ago, SaintOfVirtue said:

Logical fallacy: argument from analogy.

That's a logical fallacy?

 

[SaintOfVirtue]

15 minutes ago, Ice_nine said:

That's a logical fallacy?

 

Yup.

[Ice_nine]

Just now, SaintOfVirtue said:

Yup.

Want to elaborate? I'm stupid and I don't get it.

[Peace]

2 minutes ago, SaintOfVirtue said:

Yup.

Proof?

[SaintOfVirtue]

"Argument from Analogy" is one of a genus of informal fallacies whereby two items are shown to have some similarity and on the basis of that single similarity other qualities are inferred or implied from one onto the other.

For example:
Item X and item Y both have A
Item X also has B
Therefore item Y must also have B

Another form is:
X is similar to Y
X has A
Therefore Y has A

[Peace]

10 minutes ago, SaintOfVirtue said:

"Argument from Analogy" is one of a genus of informal fallacies whereby two items are shown to have some similarity and on the basis of that single similarity other qualities are inferred or implied from one onto the other.

For example:
Item X and item Y both have A
Item X also has B
Therefore item Y must also have B

Another form is:
X is similar to Y
X has A
Therefore Y has A

That makes sense I think. Thanks. Does the photograph posted above fit into that pattern? It seems to be a little different.

[Gabriela]

I don't think the meme is saying Christians are like ISIS or that our Republican candidates are like ISIS. I think its central point is that you can't judge a religion by a few of its purported members.

Which is true for any religion, hence the meme makes a valid point.

It uses the Republican candidates because the author assumed that, in order to get across the point about ISIS not representing Islam as a religion, s/he had to pick some other religion the (presumably American) audience could identify with. Hence the choice of purported Christians whom many Americans would argue are not very Christian.

I fail to see how you conclude anything else from this meme unless your political panties are already in a bunch.

[SaintOfVirtue]

25 minutes ago, Peace said:

That makes sense I think. Thanks. Does the photograph posted above fit into that pattern? It seems to be a little different.

I'm actually still trying to deconstruct the meme into such a syllogism, but it may have too many terms for that.

2 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

I don't think the meme is saying Christians are like ISIS or that our Republican candidates are like ISIS. I think its central point is that you can't judge a religion by a few of its purported members.

Which is true for any religion, hence the meme makes a valid point.

It uses the Republican candidates because the author assumed that, in order to get across the point about ISIS not representing Islam as a religion, s/he had to pick some other religion the (presumably American) audience could identify with. Hence the choice of purported Christians whom many Americans would argue are not very Christian.

I fail to see how you conclude anything else from this meme unless your political panties are already in a bunch.

I thought it was nodding to the socio-political debate on whether members of ISIS should be called "Radical/Militant Islamists" while paying lip-service to the liberal idea that to do so would be to label all muslims "Radical/Militant islamists".  The ideas are not expressed directly but I think they are in the sub-tones.  As for the use of the republican figure heads I think that choice was mostly a jab at their respective supporters.

[Gabriela]

4 minutes ago, SaintOfVirtue said:

I'm actually still trying to deconstruct the meme into such a syllogism, but it may have too many terms for that.

I thought it was nodding to the socio-political debate on whether members of ISIS should be called "Radical/Militant Islamists" while paying lip-service to the liberal idea that to do so would be to label all muslims "Radical/Militant islamists".  The ideas are not expressed directly but I think they are in the sub-tones.  As for the use of the republican figure heads I think that choice was mostly a jab at their respective supporters.

My understanding is that you don't have to attach the qualifiers "radical" or "militant" to the word "Islamist" for there to be implications of terrorist or other extreme activity or belief. "Islamist" is NOT "Muslim". It's a particular view of who Muslims should be in the world, particularly as regards their relationships to non-Muslims.

It's therefore silly to assume (and I'm not saying you do, but the liberals you refer to might, or the opponents they're countering—getting complicated) that referring to ISIS as "[insert any qualifier whatever] Islamists" is to conflate them with all Muslims. If we were really talking about all Muslims, we'd call them Muslims, not Islamists.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Gabriela

[SaintOfVirtue]

Agreed.

[Peace]

38 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

I don't think the meme is saying Christians are like ISIS or that our Republican candidates are like ISIS. I think its central point is that you can't judge a religion by a few of its purported members.

Which is true for any religion, hence the meme makes a valid point.

I think you are correct. That was the main point of it. On the other hand, many Democrats also claim to be Christian, so I can understand how someone who is more conservative could be annoyed by the fact that only Republicans are shown in the photo.

One might think that the reason why only Republicans were chosen is because the GOP, as part of its political strategy, attempts to position or characterize itself as "the Party of Christianity".

[Gabriela]

13 minutes ago, Peace said:

One might think that the reason why only Republicans were chosen is because the GOP, as part of its political strategy, attempts to position or characterize itself as "the Party of Christianity".

Exactly.

[Ash Wednesday]

The meme would come across as being less politically charged if they used the KKK or Westboro Baptist Church as "Christian" examples instead.

[Socrates]

23 hours ago, Josh said:

Does Isis represent Islam? Does Trump represent Christianity?

I'm sure the leaders and members of the Islamic State believe they do in fact represent Islam.  And I wouldn't say their interpretations of the teachings of Mohammed are really any less valid than those of "moderate" peaceful Muslims.  As Islam is a false, man-made religion, I think it's pointless for Christians to argue about which varieties of Islam are or are not "true Islam."  "True Islam" is an oxymoron.  From its inception, Islam has been belligerent and far from peaceful, though the atrocities of modern radical varieties such as practiced by ISIS and similar groups take it to new levels of depravity.  And, no, most Muslims are not violent terrorists, though nobody claims they are.

But I seriously doubt the author of this stupid "meme" knows the first thing about the teachings of either Islam or Christianity - he's just spouting typical p.c. drivel.

 

And to my knowledge, Trump never claimed to "represent Christianity."  He's running for president, not Pope.  Neither did any of the other Republican candidates pictured.  While Trump hasn't exactly been a saint, neither have most nominal Christians.  I certainly don't think he's any worse a Christian than Obama or Hillary (whose picture, of course, is conspicuously absent from the montage of presiiential candidates).

And whatever you think of any of the GOP candidates (and I'm not fans of all of them), none of them has conducted anything like ISIS's reign of terror, mass-murder, and rape - so that comparison is also slanderous and ridiculous.

[Era Might]

It wasn't in Islamic societies where Nazism, nuclear warfare, racial segregationism, etc. took place. ISIS is literally a handful of people among more than a billion, and its atrocities are not unique to Muslims or even new. Muslims didn't bomb Dresden. Muslims didn't create Czarist autocracy. Muslims didn't systematically cover up predatory priests. The idea that Islam represents some unique evil in humanity is not only wrong, it's self-deluding. But whatever makes it easier for us to bomb them and carve up their countries so Donald Trump's hotel guests can eat their Continental Breakfast and enjoy how fabulous they are to be American and Christian...

Edited November 26, 2015 by Era Might