truthfinder Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 1 hour ago, Nihil Obstat said: Thirty third error condemned by Exsurge Domine, 1520. Leo X. Great, thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 15 hours ago, HisChildForever said: Why did the Catholic Church burn dissenters at the stake? Instead of providing guidance, counseling, and mercy? Sometimes just listening and sympathizing with a dissenter, even if we ultimately disagree, can be healing for that person. Why such violence? Has the Church ever tried to justify it in modern times, or has this practice been vilified? Could you imagine setting people on fire today because they leave Catholicism? It's mind boggling to me. You're speaking of a time when a lord's horse had more value than the serf tilling his field. Human life was under-appreciated and I myself wonder not just how such barbaric punishments could have existed but how feudalism itself could have existed in a Christian society. To the credit of the Medievals though, a heretic was never just thrown to the fire, Aquinas outlined that they be given a chance to retract their heresy, and that this chance be given at least two times. Only the most hardened of wills faced the fire, and that itself leads one to marvel at how different we are from our predecessors. I recall reading an actual inquisitor's account of the burning of one of the last Cathar perfecti. One of his female disciples who was noted for her beauty and also happened to be his secret lover recanted her catharism, but when she saw the man burning she jumped on to the stake with him and was engulfed by the flames. This account stuck with me, the tragedy of human life and how different their fates would have been in our society today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I would just add that societies always have heretics they want to burn or banish or get rid of or silence. It's a prominent theme of American history, we've always been a unique land of heretics, like Hawthorne's adulterous wife or the Abolitionists or draft resisters. The medieval problem of heresy was just the eternal problem of indivudual vs. society. Is it, as Caiphas claimed, better that one man should die for the community? That's why Jesus had to die, he was the worst sort of heretic, a blasphemer who threatened to upend their entire religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Like Benedictus said, it was a different time and a different mindset. From their mindset, heretics were leading souls to hell, hence the punishment would be pretty harsh. What people did back then may be mind boggling to us, but they would probably be pretty horrified at the way we conduct ourselves today all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) On 11/28/2015, 7:16:31, Ark said: You're speaking of a time when a lord's horse had more value than the serf tilling his field. Human life was under-appreciated and I myself wonder not just how such barbaric punishments could have existed but how feudalism itself could have existed in a Christian society. And this is not to say today the president's car or jet is not worth more than you or I? Don't labor under the delusion that modern man is far superior and advanced than man 800 years ago. In some ways, we have better practices than that era. In others, however, we have unfortunately devolved. Each age for a culture has both good and bad practices. Don't forget that we systematically kill thousands of unborn children every day with government funding, something "Medieval" Kings of old would find absolutely barbaric. We still kill convicts, we still torture prisoners, and we still have a never-ending war with Islam. All we have going for us is worse architecture and fashion and deadlier weapons. We don't even know what gender a person is anymore. I'd hardly call ourselves superior, all things considered. Edited November 29, 2015 by PhuturePriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 3 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said: Like Benedictus said, it was a different time and a different mindset. From their mindset, heretics were leading souls to hell, hence the punishment would be pretty harsh. Heretics actually were - and still are - leading souls to hell. I mean yeah, times changed, but evil stays the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Nihil Obstat said: Heretics actually were - and still are - leading souls to hell. I mean yeah, times changed, but evil stays the same. True, my overall point was why they felt the need to resort to take someone's life, and often in brutal ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 13 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said: True, my overall point was why they felt the need to resort to take someone's life, and often in brutal ways. That is true, it was considered a necessity. But keep in mind Exsurge Domine when we evaluate whether or not that belief was reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 33 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said: That is true, it was considered a necessity. But keep in mind Exsurge Domine when we evaluate whether or not that belief was reasonable. Are you finished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 13 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said: Are you finished? No need to be rude. Are we allowed to discuss this topic or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 12 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said: No need to be rude. Are we allowed to discuss this topic or not? I'm not being rude. You're free to discuss the topic, but when you feel the need to keep chirping at me when I clearly took your point, then it borders on obnoxious and you need to know when to leave me alone. You've done this with me before, and I'm just not in the mood for it. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 6 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said: Chill. This is exactly what I'm talking about -- your constant need to get the last word in. I am asking you now, politely, to leave me alone. This conversation between us is over and I'm done here. Thank you. On with this thread, have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 3 hours ago, PhuturePriest said: And this is not to say today the president's car or jet is not worth more than you or I? Don't labor under the delusion that modern man is far superior and advanced than man 800 years ago. In some ways, we have better practices than that era. In others, however, we have unfortunately devolved. Each age for a culture has both good and bad practices. Don't forget that we systematically kill thousands of unborn children every day with government funding, something "Medieval" Kings of old would find absolutely barbaric. We still kill convicts, we still torture prisoners, and we still have a never-ending war with Islam. All we have going for us is worse architecture and fashion and deadlier weapons. We don't even know what gender a person is anymore. I'd hardly call ourselves superior, all things considered. That's a bit below the belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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