Break up with my girlfriend?

[Era Might]

9 minutes ago, Peace said:

 Can you give me a concrete example from your own life of how you became more "self-aware" of "who you are" by an action that you performed? You had sex with a woman and discovered that you are attracted to women? It sounds a bit juvenile to me, but perhaps I just do not understand you.

Just so as to end this on a peaceful note and give a personal example (in the spirit of your OP), yes, I can point to many concrete examples, but the most relevant to your situation would be that I've been married, and discovered what it means to be married, and what it doesn't mean. I don't view marriage (anymore) as a lifelong commitment to suffer and sacrifice. I discovered that marriage only works when both people have self-knowledge, and are in a mutual process of self-knowledge. There's a lot to be said for "working things out" with someone, and it's great if two people can do that, but that may not be possible for many reasons. It's not just a matter of personality. But that's just one example...I've dived deep in the game of life, and have been profoundly humbled to discover the depths of my ignorance, and hope to continue diving deep into that ignorance. The alternative is for me to have done nothing, in the hopes of planning a perfect life, something I neither believe in nor would want if it existed.

[Lilllabettt]

1 hour ago, Norseman82 said:

At one point in Church history, most of the folks subscribed to the Arian heresy as well.

Actually, if I had a sister who had a history of saying off-the-wall things like that, I would welcome someone putting her in her place.

Pardon me,  no man on earth has ever put me in my place. Relatively few of you can reach my place, even on tippy toes. 

You know Norseman the problem is not what you think it is. The problem is that  most virgin women older than 18 get used to telling men "no"  and suggesting they go to hell. But most virgins-only guys are the kind who like to put women in their place. 

 

 

 

[Norseman82]

Peace, why are you attaching my name to Era's quotes?

10 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

You know Norseman the problem is not what you think it is. The problem is that  most virgin women older than 18 get used to telling men "no"  and suggesting they go to hell. But most virgins-only guys are the kind who like to put women in their place.

And since when did your ignorant remarks in the other thread have to do with "virgins-only"?  Did you fail basic first grade reading comprehension, or are you trying to pull a fast one in order to change the subject?

13 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

Pardon me,  no man on earth has ever put me in my place.

 

Maybe that's the whole problem.

[Ash Wednesday]

No need for personal attacks. In fact it would be nice if personal differences from past threads could be set aside at this point so we can just stay on topic. Pretty please and thank you. 

[Lilllabettt]

2 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said:

No need for personal attacks. In fact it would be nice if personal differences from past threads could be set aside at this point so we can just stay on topic. Pretty please and thank you. 

As you wish. Interested people can read the actual thread in the link I posted earlier. This is an interesting convo and I don't want to disrupt further. I only mentioned anything because of what was said about premarital sex and "contamination" 

[Not A Real Name]

9 hours ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

Me too... Its correct

I learned this from very authoritative sources too (that occasion of sin is a sin). I found a section on occaaions of sin from the Baltimore catechism. It even says being unwilling to avoid occasion of sin makes one not ready to confess. I was told its a sin to put yourself into the occasions because its a type of presumption. If something lead you to a mortal sin in the past its possible to do it again because we ARE weak. The Catechism explains in detail about the types of occasion of sin.. 

. 771. What do you mean by the near occasions of sin?

A. By the near occasions of sin I mean all the persons, places and things that may easily lead us into sin.

Q. 772. Why are we bound to avoid occasions of sin?

A. We are bound to avoid occasions of sin because Our Lord has said: "He who loves the danger will perish in it"; and as we are bound to avoid the loss of our souls, so we are bound to avoid the danger of their loss. The occasion is the cause of sin, and you cannot take away the evil without removing its cause.

Q. 773. Is a person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, rightly disposed for confession?

A. A person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, is not rightly disposed for confession, and he will not be absolved if he makes known to the priest the true state of his conscience.

Q. 774. How many kinds of occasions of sin are there?

A. There are four kinds of occasions of sin:

1. Near occasions, through which we always fall;
2. Remote occasions, through which we sometimes fall;
3. Voluntary occasions or those we can avoid; and 
4. Involuntary occasions or those we cannot avoid. A person who lives in a near and voluntary occasion of sin need not expect forgiveness while he continues in that state.

Q. 775. What persons, places and things are usually occasions of sin?

A.

1. The persons who are occasions of sin are all those in whose company we sin, whether they be bad of themselves or bad only while in our company, in which case we also become occasions of sin for them;
2. The places are usually liquor saloons, low theaters, indecent dances, entertainments, amusements, exhibitions, and all immoral resorts of any kind, whether we sin in them or not;
3. The things are all bad books, indecent pictures, songs, jokes and the like, even when they are tolerated by public opinion and found in public places.

More here http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11196a.htm

 

Also I don't know this website but they have some quotes: http://www.catholicessentials.net/occasionsofsin.htm

I would GREATLY recommend that you read the encyclical Casti Connubii on marriage. Have you ever read it? Its probably one of the most useful things to read about marriage for anyone. Just wanted to share our Legion of Mary group is reading it and everyone is really impressed. Its the authentic Catholic teaching on marriage (not our society's view)  and it could clarify a lot of things http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii.html

 

The Summa might have it 

You rock. Thank you.

[Peace]

1 hour ago, Era Might said:

Just so as to end this on a peaceful note and give a personal example (in the spirit of your OP), yes, I can point to many concrete examples, but the most relevant to your situation would be that I've been married, and discovered what it means to be married, and what it doesn't mean. I don't view marriage (anymore) as a lifelong commitment to suffer and sacrifice. I discovered that marriage only works when both people have self-knowledge, and are in a mutual process of self-knowledge. There's a lot to be said for "working things out" with someone, and it's great if two people can do that, but that may not be possible for many reasons. It's not just a matter of personality. But that's just one example...

 Thanks.

Quote

I've dived deep in the game of life, and have been profoundly humbled to discover the depths of my ignorance, and hope to continue diving deep into that ignorance. The alternative is for me to have done nothing, in the hopes of planning a perfect life, something I neither believe in nor would want if it existed.

Let's hope that one day you surface from that well of ignorance that you have dived into.

It is interesting to me that you talk about growing as a human or becoming more human. It seems to me that by denying the knowledge of God and the sense of basic morality that every person has you become less and less human and more and more like an animal.

I don't mean to defecate on your whole life or philosophy or anything but that is honestly the way I see it. Two months ago you were talking about how you wanted to follow Jesus and return to the church. Then you seem to have read a few articles or read a book on some obscure philosophical outlook, and two weeks later you reject God and can't see a moral difference between raping a baby and giving money to a homeless person?

That is rather odd. From the standpoint of one Catholic my best guess is to attribute all of this to a demonic force that has twisted your mind.

1 hour ago, Norseman82 said:

Peace, why are you attaching my name to Era's quotes?

My bad. Technical difficulty. Sorry about that. I certainly would not want my name attached to any of that either.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Peace

[Cam42]

I'm kinda lost in this thread...it's going in several different directions.  A couple of things to consider.

1.  This seems small, but it's important.  Get a Catholic Bible.  The ESV is not a good source for Scriptural Study or reading, from a Catholic POV.  I would strongly recommend the RSV-CE.  It will help you to form your conscience properly.

2.  According to the OP, there is mortal sin involved.  Availing oneself to the Sacrament of Penance is necessary.  If that has been accomplished, great, if not, get there.  No judgment, just stating a necessity.

3.  It's important to understand that Christian purity is paramount.  If a slip has been made, it is not irreversible.  It can be returned to, but it is exponentially harder.  I would suggest spiritual direction.  And to not put yourself in a near occasion of sin.  In other words, probably not a good idea to be alone with her until you are certain you can control your passions 100%.  You have shown that you can't, by your own words, so wisdom states that avoiding that is best.

4.  You should be working to convert her heart, soul, and mind.  Your faith is more important than a girl you're dating.

5.  Kissing is overrated.  So, is intercourse.  So, is anything which places your soul in danger.  That includes venial sin.  Confession is never overrated.

So, this all seems to be very elementary, but it answers all of the questions.  There really isn't any reason to be emotional or supportive in any further way than I was before, short of saying that you can work toward perfection.  I will support you prayerfully for the rest of your life.  That is my responsibility as a Catholic.  Thanks for listening....probably too blunt, but you'll find out, I'm very straightforward.

God keep you close.

[Era Might]

29 minutes ago, Peace said:

 Thanks.

Let's hope that one day you surface from that well of ignorance that you have dived into.

It is interesting to me that you talk about growing as a human or becoming more human. It seems to me that by denying the knowledge of God and the sense of basic morality that every person has you become less and less human and more and more like an animal.

I don't mean to defecate on your whole life or philosophy or anything but that is honestly the way I see it. Two months ago you were talking about how you wanted to follow Jesus and return to the church. Then you seem to have read a few articles or read a book on some obscure philosophical outlook, and two weeks later you reject God and can't see a moral difference between raping a baby and giving money to a homeless person?

That is rather odd. From the standpoint of one Catholic my best guess is to attribute all of this to a demonic force that has twisted your mind.

My bad. Technical difficulty. Sorry about that. I certainly would not want my name attached to any of that either.

In your mind I can't see a difference. I don't see any profit to debating more. You can only discover life for yourself, I can't teach you, and vice versa, you can't teach me.

[Peace]

2 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

I'm kinda lost in this thread...it's going in several different directions.  A couple of things to consider.

1.  This seems small, but it's important.  Get a Catholic Bible.  The ESV is not a good source for Scriptural Study or reading, from a Catholic POV.  I would strongly recommend the RSV-CE.  It will help you to form your conscience properly.

I have the RSVCE, NAB, Douay-Rheims, and the Knox on my shelf. Is that Catholic enough for you?

2 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

2.  According to the OP, there is mortal sin involved.  Availing oneself to the Sacrament of Penance is necessary.  If that has been accomplished, great, if not, get there.  No judgment, just stating a necessity.

Thanks. I went. It was a blast.

2 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

3.  It's important to understand that Christian purity is paramount.  If a slip has been made, it is not irreversible.  It can be returned to, but it is exponentially harder.  I would suggest spiritual direction.  And to not put yourself in a near occasion of sin.  In other words, probably not a good idea to be alone with her until you are certain you can control your passions 100%.  You have shown that you can't, by your own words, so wisdom states that avoiding that is best.

I think that this has already been discussed. Please refer back to the thread.

2 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

4.  You should be working to convert her heart, soul, and mind.  Your faith is more important than a girl you're dating.

Thanks for the tip. Will do.

2 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

5.  Kissing is overrated.  So, is intercourse.  So, is anything which places your soul in danger.  That includes venial sin.  Confession is never overrated.

I am a big fan of not going to hell personally. I can't disagree with you there.

2 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

So, this all seems to be very elementary, but it answers all of the questions.  There really isn't any reason to be emotional or supportive in any further way than I was before, short of saying that you can work toward perfection.  I will support you prayerfully for the rest of your life.  That is my responsibility as a Catholic.  Thanks for listening....probably too blunt, but you'll find out, I'm very straightforward.

God keep you close.

Thank you.

10 minutes ago, Era Might said:

In your mind I can't see a difference. I don't see any profit to debating more. You can only discover life for yourself, I can't teach you, and vice versa, you can't teach me.

Oh but you have taught me Era. You really have.

[Cam42]

You made a comment earlier that you were quoting the ESV.  Not a good source.  If you have the other translations, I'd use one of those.  (Personally, I read the Vulgate.  It solves a lot of problems.  If I'm forced to read in English, it's the DR and/or RSVCE.)  Just an observation.  And a bit of friendly advice.

As for the rest, no problem, friend.

 

[Peace]

4 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

You made a comment earlier that you were quoting the ESV.  Not a good source.  If you have the other translations, I'd use one of those.  (Personally, I read the Vulgate.  It solves a lot of problems.  If I'm forced to read in English, it's the DR and/or RSVCE.)  Just an observation.  And a bit of friendly advice.

As for the rest, no problem, friend.

 

The Vulgate?!! Wow. Impressive. "We are not worthy".

I think the ESV is a fine translation for most purposes. I do not feel like debating it though.

[Cam42]

Just now, Peace said:

The Vulgate?!! Wow. Impressive. "We are not worthy".

I think the ESV is a fine translation for most purposes. I do not feel like debating it though.

15 years of Latin...and it is definitive.  Hard to beat it.  It isn't about worthiness.  Don't be a smart@$$.  There is just no need for it.

You're wrong about the ESV.  Just sayin'.

[Ash Wednesday]

Again, can we just stay on topic. Please.

I'm not sure what the topic is anymore but I think it's something about Peace and his girlfriend...dating...chastity...relationship decisions....etc.

[Peace]

2 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

15 years of Latin...and it is definitive.  Hard to beat it.  It isn't about worthiness.  Don't be a smart@$$.  There is just no need for it.

You're wrong about the ESV.  Just sayin'.

I could not care less about how many years of Latin you had.

Just sayin'.

[Ash Wednesday]

For the last time, I am asking all of you -- and I mean all of you -- to quit with the bickering. Be constructive, stay on topic, or I will lose my patience and lock this thread.

And if you want to debate bibles, please start a topic on the debate table.

[Peace]

38 minutes ago, Cam42 said:

15 years of Latin...and it is definitive.  Hard to beat it.  It isn't about worthiness.  Don't be a smart@$$.  There is just no need for it.

You're wrong about the ESV.  Just sayin'.

Cam42:

I am sorry about what I wrote. I apologize. I was wrong.

It can be a little frustrating because sometimes you speak to people as though you have authority over them. I am an adult. I work and put food on my own table. I don't like it when someone talks to me like I am a child.

Peace

[MarysLittleFlower]

Some observations for Era about being human God has a reason and a will. We have a reason and a will given by God. This makes us persons. We are made in God's image.

So we need to use our intellect and will to please God. The definition of goodness is from Him.

Part of how God made us is to know Him and love Him. Therefore growing in knowledge and love of God is the correct use of our faculties and of what defines us as human persons. Using them to know self apart from God leads to a false or incomplete understanding. 

If we separate reason and will from the moral code given by God, we would be ruled by our passions or false reasoning. We would be more like animals than humans, who can't reason - in fact worse than animals because they can't sin and aren't abusing reason since they lack it. I don't know Era how you define what good is. Some things are natural law others are revealed. But our conscience needs to be formed correctly or it would be influenced by concupiscence. 

[Cam42]

2 hours ago, Peace said:

Cam42:

I am sorry about what I wrote. I apologize. I was wrong.

It can be a little frustrating because sometimes you speak to people as though you have authority over them. I am an adult. I work and put food on my own table. I don't like it when someone talks to me like I am a child.

Peace

Speaking in a straightforward manner is not treating you like a child.  But I am not nor have I ever been one to be super emotive on this site or in real life.  Not to mention that it is darn near impossible to convey emotion, so I don't try.  And unless you've been posting here for 10 years or have been in private conversations with those who have, you don't have enough information to make that statement.

It is my responsibility to catechize.  It is my responsibility to do this, whether one is 5 or 50.  I don't speak to you as if you are a child.  I speak to you assuming that you're mature enough to respond like an adult.  That still holds.  When you post a topic, you are opening up to responses.  I responded.  You can choose to ignore what I post, or not.  There is no malice.

I know I have a reputation here.  It isn't unfounded, completely.  Later, dude.  BTW, I am not challenging your Catholicism.  I'm trying to give you a different perspective on an issue you've asked for help with.....Sorry, Homes, just trying to do what you are asking.

[tinytherese]

As far as dating someone with different beliefs, I've been given the advice not to discuss religion with them unless the other person specifically brings it up or if it your differing beliefs directly affect the relationship (chastity, contraception, which faith the children would be raised if you married, etc.) Otherwise, lecturing them on Catholicism without them showing any interest in the subject can turn them off to the faith and can lead them to resent you, dump you, and just lead to overall relationship dissatisfaction. 

Pray for them, ask fellow Catholics to pray for them, and live your faith as a witness to them. Maybe in the future they'll convert. Then again, maybe they never will. Some can handle being married to someone with different religious beliefs and others can't. Neither of them are wrong. Ask yourself what you honestly can and can't handle and not just in terms of different religious beliefs. "Can I live with that trait for the rest of my life?"

I know that finding the right person isn't easy, but please don't settle. Just picture what it would be like if you found out after your wedding that she or another woman settled for you. I imagine that that you would feel hurt. Your wife would feel the same way if she discovered that you settled for her.