Spiritual director's advice

[Mary Catherine]

Dear sisters,

Thanks for your comment..My spiritual director is a diocesan priest, very holy and traditional, he offers Latin mass now and then and everyone likes him.

I think I should be blindly obedient to him.

[Feankie]

"Dear sisters,

Thanks for your comment..My spiritual director is a diocesan priest, very holy and traditional, he offers Latin mass now and then and everyone likes him.

I think I should be blindly obedient to him"

I will pray for you as, among other things, no person should be blindly obedient to another.  Of course,this may change when and if you are in a monastery/convent and are under the vow of obedience.  Please, please don't abdicate your God-given free-will to another.  That is one of the signs of a cult- being blindly obedient to its leader.  Now don't jump all over me on this last point.........it's just a statement of fact. And I'm not saying it applies here:)  You should take his advice and make your own decision as you are not bound by vows or promises to him.  Remember, you are following HIS decision/s for YOUR life.  What if he's wrong?  Then what? No human is infallible.  Please be very careful and think this situation through before you do anything you may regret in the future.  God gave us free will for a reason, and He gave us the Holy Spirit to help us in our decision making processes.

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

1 hour ago, Mary Catherine said:

Dear sisters,

Thanks for your comment..My spiritual director is a diocesan priest, very holy and traditional, he offers Latin mass now and then and everyone likes him.

I think I should be blindly obedient to him.

He sounds like a good priest!

20 minutes ago, Francis Clare said:

"Dear sisters,

Thanks for your comment..My spiritual director is a diocesan priest, very holy and traditional, he offers Latin mass now and then and everyone likes him.

I think I should be blindly obedient to him"

I will pray for you as, among other things, no person should be blindly obedient to another.  Of course,this may change when and if you are in a monastery/convent and are under the vow of obedience.  Please, please don't abdicate your God-given free-will to another.  That is one of the signs of a cult- being blindly obedient to its leader.  Now don't jump all over me on this last point.........it's just a statement of fact. And I'm not saying it applies here:)  You should take his advice and make your own decision as you are not bound by vows or promises to him.  Remember, you are following HIS decision/s for YOUR life.  What if he's wrong?  Then what? No human is infallible.  Please be very careful and think this situation through before you do anything you may regret in the future.  God gave us free will for a reason, and He gave us the Holy Spirit to help us in our decision making processes.

 

Francis Clare, it doesn't seem to me like this is a case of cult like "obedience".. I think it would be wrong if the SD said to sin or micro managed areas of life. Here it seems he's a priest who is giving spiritual advice and Mary feels she should trust it. To me personally this makes sense, for example I have scruples and in a case like mine, I read that the way to cure it is to make ones confessors conscience your own. If I questioned things he told me I'd just rely on self will and feed my pride. Maybe the OP isn't scrupulous like me but she seems to be describing a similar idea of trusting the SD with her soul. I've always seen that as commendable and a good way to grow in humility. I heard we can't vow obedience to a priest or have the same obedience as in a convent but I think unquestioningly accepting spiritual advice from someone qualified is a good way to holiness? Based on various things I read from the Saints... Sometimes when people take their spiritual life very seriously but rely on their own judgement, things go very wrong and I've seen people struggle greatly from this.. Maybe Mary meant "blind obedience" in a different way than the cult like type of "blind obedience"? I can't speak for her but I think she probably meant trust and not relying on one owns judgement. 

Maybe she would clarify

[Feankie]

I don't think I can add anything else to this discussion as it seems to be a circular one.  Similar to a few others  currently active on the board.  We go round and round and round..  And those who have much life, practical, and  scholastic experience and knowledge about the topic/s are summarily discounted or their opinions are pooh-poohed for various and sundry reasons.  Perhaps it's better for me to just keep reading and praying rather than responding as it becomes an exercise in frustration.   Let's just say I'm observing the "Grand Silence" for a bit :))

[MarysLittleFlower]

I am of the understanding that we don't need to have fears about an SD being wrong, because even if he's wrong, we are doing good by trusting. There were times in the lives of the Saints when their SD or Confessor got something wrong about them (like rejecting their revelations if they had them), but God showed them He was happy with their obedience and later the SD changed his mind. The Saints really felt their revelations were from God but if their SD said to ignore them, they did, even if interiorly they still felt they were real. Later God helped the SD and rewarded the Saints for their obedience. So I think even if the OP is totally converted and her SD is saying she needs more conversion, she would be blessed in following her SDs view :) and who doesn't need more conversion? I know I do :) its a good advice. IMO :) I remember a story of St Gemma where her SD 'accused' her of a fault she didn't commit, and she sincerely repented and believed him. I think this sort of thing goes completely against our cultural values of freedom etc but in St Gemma we can see such simplicity and humility in this act. Anyways based on.this thread maybe many would disagree with me but this is how my view formed and if I'm wrong, then no one has to listen to me. But I do wonder about those Saint stories. 

8 minutes ago, Francis Clare said:

I don't think I can add anything else to this discussion as it seems to be a circular one.  Similar to a few others  currently active on the board.  We go round and round and round..  And those who have much life, practical, and  scholastic experience and knowledge about the topic/s are summarily discounted or their opinions are pooh-poohed for various and sundry reasons.  Perhaps it's better for me to just keep reading and praying rather than responding as it becomes an exercise in frustration.   Let's just say I'm observing the "Grand Silence" for a bit :))

Francis Clare, I think your view is shared by many in this thread, and I'm not saying its not legitimate :) most seem to have the same view as you, and that's ok.with me, - I know sometimes my views are really different from many here which makes me wonder if I'm right or wrong... Maybe our sources are different. Anyways I was trying to share a bit of a different perspective. Maybe we don't actually disagree but are speaking past each other. 

[Julie de Sales]

Just sharing my own opinion on this topic, about obeying one's SD. I think that once you have found someone you trust with your soul, there is great freedom into following his advice. As MLF, I also struggle with scruples and when I give up on my false fears because my confessor told me so, I grow closer to God and become more myself. When it comes to choosing a vocation, I believe that a good SD should have a special gift of discernment and because of this I would always take his advice to prayer and try to follow it, especially if I'm filled with peace and consolation. Also, I suppose most SD don't abuse their authority and they have serious resons for the guidance that they provide. Especially if that person is a "very holy priest" as the OP said.

I'm aware that there are 2 directions when it comes to spiritual direction: one where the SD is more of a companion in the spiritual journey of the directee and the second where he/she is more like a spiritual master that teaches you how to grow in your relationship with God. I personally prefer the second approach, maybe because it also gives me a sense of security; if I obey, I know that I'm doing God's will and even if the SD is wrong, something good will come out of it. I guess it's about finding a balance. 

[Feankie]

I'm was going to bite my tongue and not say anything, but I bristle a bit at the above post.  About obeying one's SD.  I don't expect my directees to obey me, but take what we discuss and chew on it, digest it, take it to prayer and the Scriptures, and bring it back for more discussion if needed.  Then, and only then, make a decision or take a step - both of which can certainly be visited again. Yes, I may be a companion on one's spiritual journey, but my job is to also lead my directees into a deeper relationship with God.  I'm now positive there is a rampant misconception of SD's on this board.  You must define what exactly you're talking about when you refer to a SD.  Is it your confessor?  If so, there is a completely different dimension to the relationship.  Even so, one just should not abdicate their free will and choices to another.  Just  because one is a priest or a religious does not make one a better SD than a lay person.  The priest, of course, has different faculties through ordination, but that does not cause him to have a better gift of discernment than a lay SD.  If my directees did NOT grow closer to God through our sessions, I would hang up my hat in an instant.  And with this my "silence" begins again as I feel I could explain until I'm blue in the face and it would still make no difference. Age, life and theological experience, education, etc. DO make a difference my friends   I do hope you'll understand this last sentence as you continue your walk towards Christ. 

[Egeria]

16 minutes ago, Francis Clare said:

I'm now positive there is a rampant misconception of SD's on this board. 

Once more, Francis Clare, and despite the fact that the term "blind obedience" does rather jar with me too, you seem to be seeking to deny that your perceptions of spiritual direction are not the only ones in Christian history.

Really, despite sympathizing with many of your concerns, it is the hegemonic nature of your claims that really annoys me. The discourse of various movements concerned with spiritual direction of the last half century or so, despite their positive contributions, is not the final word on anything. There are also other traditions, histories, and approaches, which also have a right to be heard and discussed. 

But I'm also opting out of this discussion as I fear that we are simply talking past each other. And really, this all requires considerably more unpacking, which I don't have time for at present. But it is an important topic that I wish somebody qualified would write more on.

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

4 hours ago, Francis Clare said:

 

(Sorry about the formatting im not sure why my phone is quoting an earlier post)

I think there may be different views of spiritual direction and we've all heard a different one

[Feankie]

Frankly, I don't believe I"m being hegemonic at all.  Rather, I am speaking from education and experience.  No where did I state I was the final authority on the subject as I don't think any one person or source can be.   As it is, if you would look at my other posts, I am quite able and have the requisite theological, historical, and practical knowledge to write more on the subject, yet I chose not to as to not gum up the central point/s of the other posters. Citing the various historical and theological origins of SD in Roman Catholicism and other denominations was and is not my goal as it would take way to long and lead to several rabbit trails.  My main goal in all of this was to spare possible hurt, etc. when putting one's eggs in one basket, so to speak.  If you wish to insult me or slap my hand, please do it in a PM.  I have done nothing IMO to annoy you, rather it is you who choose to be annoyed

[Nunsuch]

One of the blessings of the internet is that we can learn from those we may never meet face to face, or may never have encountered otherwise. I have a lot of expertise in my own area (I am a tenured professor of history, and have published extensively in certain areas), but there are a lot more things I do not know about, and I welcome hearing from those who do. As Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (a lifelong Catholic, by the way) once famously said: "You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts." Thus, while I hope that I will listen respectfully to everyone, I tend to give more credence in the views of those who seem to have a substantive basis for what they are talking about. 

[Sponsa-Christi]

This is actually a really interesting discussion, and I'm finding myself agreeing with different people on different points.

For example, I agree with Egeria that there are different valid approaches to SD across the universal Church which should be respected. And while I think specific training in SD can certainly be valuable, I don't think it's always totally necessary (although I personally think anybody doing SD should have at least a basic academic background in theology).

However, Francis Clare's posts are also resonating with me, in that I also see an SD's role as being more of a co-discerner rather than a quasi-religious superior. Although even here, while I wouldn't agree that an SD should expect "blind obedience," I think it's only common sense that one give one's SD at least some degree of deference. After all, if you didn't trust your SD to give sound advice and to see things in your life that you yourself might be missing/overlooking/trying to ignore, it sort of defeats the point of having an SD in the first place.

My two cents here---and I know this won't be a popular thing to say---is that I would be VERY careful about having an SD whose main positive attribute was being "traditional." Of course, "traditional" can mean a lot of things, and certainly one should have an SD who is orthodox and who "thinks with the Church." But I've found in my personal experience that sometimes---granted, certainly not always, but often enough---priests who whole-hardheartedly embrace "traddy" culture can sometimes have personal issues or unbalanced ideas about the Church that they appear to be using trad culture to cover up. 

I can appreciate where many Catholics might have a positive spiritual affinity for the TLM and "traditional" spirituality, and I can see how a "traditional priest" might be a good SD for a Catholic who felt this way. But an SD should have a number of more substantial good qualities, and an SD's traditonalist leanings should be more like a bonus rather than than his main qualification. 

[veritasluxmea]

It's also interesting to note a few things in the examples of saint's lives where they did follow blind obedience to their confessor. First of all, their confessors were saints themselves. St Gemma Galgani, St Margaret Mary Aloque, and St Faustina are good examples of this. Their confessors are now in the process of canonization (or have already been canonized). Do you really think your spiritual director is a living saint? I'm guessing they're pretty holy- but canonizable holiness? be realistic. They're a human being. 

Secondly, the confessors were pretty much picked by God and He made it clear to those people He wanted them to follow that particular person. St Faustina's diary is a great example of this. Have you received mystical allocations God wants you to follow this person so closely? 

Thirdly, when these saints had "regular" confessors who worked with them as spiritual directors, they *did* follow them blindly out of their effort to practice great virtue. But frankly when the guy wasn't up for the job- wrong direction or not believing the person or so on- God didn't let them remain as their director for life. God was pleased with the saint's willingness to be blindly obedient, but not pleased with bad advice. With these great saints He was working directly in their lives and didn't let them remain under bad direction for long. 

Fourthly, I'm pretty sure most people reading this are not great mystics or saints. Sorry. If you remain passively with someone who is a bad SD or even just a bad fit, and you don't do any discernment on your part- you just accept it- He'll let you have bad spiritual direction/confession. That *can* ruin your discernment- St Theresa of Avila suggests even your soul and prayer life. God probably understands that you're simply trying to practice obedience and might not hold it against you, but ignorance isn't a great excuse. I'm pretty sure most of us here are called to holiness using ordinary means. So use them. God isn't going to give you a vision on who you should be blindly obedient too. Be careful about who you go to for confession and spiritual direction. Be aware of things that aren't ok (and yes, oppressing their will on the directee and having a "do as I say" attitude ISN'T ok). Be open and willing to be obedient- with the right person, who communicates well with you what they are thinking and understanding, and understands you and is wanting to work with you. 

St Theresa of Avila had a similar attitude about finding the "right" spiritual director. This article lays it out pretty well. If you don't find those qualities there, you should have the confidence and prudence to walk away. 

http://patrickmadrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Qualities_Spiritual_Director.pdf 

[MarysLittleFlower]

I don't think the requirements for obeying an SD is being a mystic who was told this is just the right SD who is also a saint. I believe the Saints would have followed their SD in obedience even if he wasnt a Saint and they weren't mystics. I think this way because various Saints were still obedient even when the SD made a mistake yes maybe later God corrected him or brought a new SD but the Saints' obedience was never treated as a problem, but as virtue. As for using ordinary means to see if an SD is good, it looks to me like the original poster is doing that. I'm going to make a final point here. I really believe that if we pick and choose what we follow from what we are told in direction, we would choose based on our comfort much of the time. 

[Gabriela]

6 hours ago, Sponsa-Christi said:

My two cents here---and I know this won't be a popular thing to say---is that I would be VERY careful about having an SD whose main positive attribute was being "traditional." Of course, "traditional" can mean a lot of things, and certainly one should have an SD who is orthodox and who "thinks with the Church." But I've found in my personal experience that sometimes---granted, certainly not always, but often enough---priests who whole-hardheartedly embrace "traddy" culture can sometimes have personal issues or unbalanced ideas about the Church that they appear to be using trad culture to cover up. 

I can appreciate where many Catholics might have a positive spiritual affinity for the TLM and "traditional" spirituality, and I can see how a "traditional priest" might be a good SD for a Catholic who felt this way. But an SD should have a number of more substantial good qualities, and an SD's traditonalist leanings should be more like a bonus rather than than his main qualification. 

I'm glad you said this, because as soon as I read the OP's description of her priest, it's exactly what I thought, too. I say this as a trad: A lot of trad priests seem to become trad priests because they know that trads believe in extreme authority and they will give them extreme authority over their lives.

It's not healthy, and just being trad does not mean the man is holy. Neither does the fact that everybody likes him. Trads always love trad priests. They wouldn't dare criticize them—and that is also unhealthy.

I have not read the thread about the community the OP is discerning with, but I also see the trend others have referred to: People who actually have education and experience and rock-solid credentials get dismissed on here as if all their cred is worth only as much as other people's opinions. That's no good. If you really believe in authority, then these people's education and experience should mean something to you—something more than "random Catholics'" opinions.

I can see the point about obedience to one's SD, and about accompaniment in discernment. I think there are "two styles". But no one should give blind obedience to anyone. If your abbess ordered you to smack your sister, would you do it? You know that's not of God. If your SD ordered you to ignore a community that you feel very certain God is calling you to, is that order of God? Again, maybe the community is problematic and the man is right. But the principle still stands: You can't just shut off your brain and let him make your life decisions for you. You need to be part of the process, or else it isn't your discernment, it's just your giving up.

As for being "much of a pagan style and rebellious and cold to God, self-centered and self-righteous, treat sins as nothing, and always easily justiy myself"... well, sheesh, that's all of us. Don't beat yourself up.

[veritasluxmea]

2 hours ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

I don't think the requirements for obeying an SD is being a mystic who was told this is just the right SD who is also a saint. 

Where did I say that? 

2 hours ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

 I think this way because various Saints were still obedient even when the SD made a mistake 

"they *did* follow them blindly out of their effort to practice great virtue. But frankly when the guy wasn't up for the job- wrong direction or not believing the person or so on- God didn't let them remain as their director for life. God was pleased with the saint's willingness to be blindly obedient, but not pleased with bad advice. " You need to discern if you are pleasing God by forcing yourself to work with a bad fit. You could damage yourself- and God's will for you- this way. 

2 hours ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

 yes maybe later God corrected him or brought a new SD but the Saints' obedience was never treated as a problem, but as virtue. 

"If you remain passively with someone who is a bad SD or even just a bad fit, and you don't do any discernment on your part- you just accept it- He'll let you have bad spiritual direction/confession. That *can* ruin your discernment- St Theresa of Avila suggests even your soul and prayer life. God probably understands that you're simply trying to practice obedience and might not hold it against you, but ignorance isn't a great excuse. I'm pretty sure most of us here are called to holiness using ordinary means. So use them. God isn't going to give you a vision on who you should be blindly obedient too. "

Blind obedience isn't going to save you or your soul when you're being abused and misled. 

Blind obedience isn't going to save you or your soul when you're being abused and misled. You have control and responsibility over your relationship as a layperson with a spiritual director and you need to take your part seriously. 

2 hours ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

As for using ordinary means to see if an SD is good, it looks to me like the original poster is doing that. 

I assume so too. I'm talking about situations in general, not her particular situation. 

2 hours ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

 I really believe that if we pick and choose what we follow from what we are told in direction, we would choose based on our comfort much of the time. 

Literally no one is suggesting we pick and chose what we follow. I *am* suggesting we be careful WHO we chose to follow. One of the signs you're following the wrong confessor? Oppressive behavior, "do as I say" attitude without really caring how it affects you, and so on. 

Don't use the extreme examples of the grants saints dealing with tough spiritual directors to justify staying in a harmful situation. Blind obedience isn't going to save you or your soul when you're being abused and misled. It's waaaay more likely God is calling you to grow in discernment and as a person by taking responsibility for yourself than He's asking you to stay in a bad situation and be led around in circles- or worse, into permanently bad vocations or decisions- simply because you have a good desire to practice obedience to someone who's unqualified and doesn't know what they're doing. 

[vee]

Scripture says be as shrewd as serpents and as gentle/innocent/harmless (depending on translation) as doves.  We are to keep our wits about us!  A modern example I might give could be Mother Angelica and Mother Teresa, Be shrewd and wise always!!! 

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm not saying we should willingly follow a bad director! I just don't think this means that Mary has a bad director . He just gave her some advice.

I have been going to a Latin Mass parish for a while and we've had various priests because they get transfered around once in a while. They are all "trad" priests and the ones I spoke to about my spiritual life have all been very well formed, responsible and ..well, normal! They didn't abuse authority. Maybe sometimes their advice might be more "traddy" than some other priests may give. Which fits me just fine because I chose a traditional parish for a reason. I also know a very holy diocesan priest who likes the TLM. He's a very gentle person who would never abuse authority.

I'm not sure what priests people have met but I haven't seen that with the FSSP or diocesan priests. I don't think its wrong or insulting to say that I'd trust their view over people on a forum even with training and credentials. I'm not dismissing their credentials. But my priest actually knows me and he's trained too. What makes his view less credible?

Regarding dismissing peoples views about what spiritual direction is - again I'm not dismissing them, I think maybe there are different views and I simply read other sources. For the record - these sources do NOT say its ok to abuse authority etc. They just talk about trust in a confessor or importance of obedience.

Maybe some have been taught slightly different views but it doesn't mean there are no other approaches in the Church. I just don't think any of this means that Mary's SD is doing something wrong. It might be confusing to her to ask  question about growing in faith and asking for prayer, and then read 3 pages of debate about her SD. I know I'd be confused.

If an SD was actually unreasonable and just weird, that would be one thing. Giving 'tough' spiritual advice isn't it. Especially when the person felt this too in prayer. If I came to ask for help and people questioned my SD who is a faithful priest and isn't over stepping bounds, I'd still stick with the view of my SD over people online, sorry. I don't think that's an insult, but what most would do. 

Here's what St Francis De Sales says on the topic. I wouldn't dare say something like "St Francis is wrong on spiritual direction". 

So we don't make vows of obedience to priests but no reason for the general principles not to apply today. Maybe some would disagree with this quote but I don't think anyone could dismiss St Francis as not knowing what he's saying. Its legit to follow his view  even if some have been taught other views. 

Introduction to the Devout Life

The Need of a Guide for Those Who Would Enter Upon and Advance in the Devout Life

Part I, Chapter 4

« prev : next »

When Tobias was bidden to go to Rages, he was willing to obey his father, but he objected that he knew not the way;--to which Tobit answered, "Seek thee a man which may go with thee:"and even so, daughter, I say to you, If you would really tread the paths of the devout life, seek some holy man to guide and conduct you. This is the precept of precepts, says the devout Avila,--seek as you will you can never so surely discover God's Will as through the channel of humble obedience so universally taught and practised by all the Saints of olden time. When the blessed Teresa read of the great penances performed by Catherine of Cordova, she desired exceedingly to imitate them, contrary to the mind of her Confessor, who forbade her to do the like, and she was tempted to disobey him therein. Then God spoke to Teresa, saying, "My child, thou art on a good and safe road:-- true, thou seest all this penance, but verily I esteem thy obedience as a yet greater virtue:" --and thenceforth Saint Teresa so greatly loved the virtue of obedience, that in addition to that due to her superiors, she took a vow of special obedience to a pious ecclesiastic, pledging herself to follow his direction and guidance, which proved an inexpressible help to her. And even so before and after her many pious souls have subjected their will to God's ministers in order the better to submit themselves to Him, a practice much commended by Saint Catherine of Sienna in her Dialogues. The devout Princess Saint Elisabeth gave an unlimited obedience to the venerable Conrad; and one of the parting counsels given by Saint Louis to his son ere he died was, "Confess thyself often,--choose a single-minded, worthy confessor, who is able wisely to teach thee how to do that which is needful for thee.""A faithful friend," we are told in Holy Scripture, "is a strong defence, and he that hath found such an one hath found a treasure;"and again: "A faithful friend is the medicine of life; and they that fear the Lord shall find him."These sacred words have chiefly reference, as you see, to the immortal life, with a view to which we specially need a faithful friend, who will guide us by his counsel and advice, thereby guarding us against the deceits and snares of the Evil One:--he will be as a storehouse of wisdom to us in our sorrows, trials and falls; he will be as a healing balm to stay and soothe our heart in the time of spiritual sickness,--he will shield us from evil, and confirm that which is good in us, and when we fall through infirmity, he will avert the deadly nature of the evil, and raise us up again.

But who can find such a friend? The Wise Man answers:--"He that feareth the Lord:" that is to say, the truly humble soul which earnestly desires to advance in the spiritual life. So, daughter, inasmuch as it concerns you so closely to set forth on this devout journey under good guidance, do you pray most earnestly to God to supply you with a guide after His Own Heart, and never doubt but that He will grant you one who is wise and faithful, even should He send you an angel from Heaven, as He sent to Tobias.

In truth, your spiritual guide should always be as a heaven-sent angel to you;--by which I mean that when you have found him, you are not to look upon him, or trust in him or his wisdom as an ordinary man; but you must look to God, Who will help you and speak to you through this man, putting into his heart and mouth that which is needful to you; so that you ought to hearken as though he were an angel come down from Heaven to lead you thither. Deal with him in all sincerity and faithfulness, and with open heart; manifesting alike your good and your evil, without pretence or dissimulation. Thus your good will be examined and confirmed, and your evil corrected and remedied; --you will be soothed and strengthened in trouble, moderated and regulated in prosperity. Give your guide a hearty confidence mingled with sacred reverence, so that reverence in no way shall hinder your confidence, and confidence nowise lessen your reverence: trust him with the respect of a daughter for her father; respect him with the confidence of a son in his mother. In a word, such a friendship should be strong and sweet; altogether holy, sacred, divine and spiritual. And with such an aim, choose one among a thousand, Avila says;--and I say among ten thousand, for there are fewer than one would think capable of this office. He must needs be full of love, of wisdom and of discretion; for if either of these three be wanting there is danger. But once more I say, ask such help of God, and when you have found it, bless His Holy Name; be stedfast, seek no more, but go on simply, humbly and trustfully, for you are safe to make a prosperous journey.

Source: http://www.catholicity.com/devoutlife/1-04.html

What would have happened to St Teresa if she thought "I have a right to my own view. My SD thinks these penances are not for me but I respectfully disagree and I have a right to this. My director can't forbid me to do something, only counsel, and I have a right to say yes or no and think about it myself. I thought about it and decided he's incorrect". That would have been a prideful reliance on self and she would have gone into spiritual danger and exposed herself to temptation. Her obedience kept her safe. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by MarysLittleFlower

[MarysLittleFlower]

Anyway I'm going to trust St Francis De Sales on his view of spiritual direction and I feel very safe doing this. He said " And even so before and after her many pious souls have subjected their will to God's ministers in order the better to submit themselves to Him, a practice much commended by Saint Catherine of Sienna in her Dialogues." " If you would really tread the paths of the devout life, seek some holy man to guide and conduct you. This is the precept of precepts, says the devout Avila,--seek as you will you can never so surely discover God's Will as through the channel of humble obedience so universally taught and practised by all the Saints of olden time." " you are not to look upon him, or trust in him or his wisdom as an ordinary man; but you must look to God, Who will help you and speak to you through this man, putting into his heart and mouth that which is needful to you"

[veritasluxmea]

Mmm. I'm starting to think maybe there isn't a disagreement here.

7 hours ago, MarysLittleFlower said:

I'm not saying we should willingly follow a bad director! I just don't think this means that Mary has a bad director . He just gave her some advice.

First of all, I'm not talking about Mary, you, or anyone in particular. I'm just talking about spiritual direction in general. It sounds like everyone has had positive experiences. I'm glad to hear that, but that's not what I'm talking about. 

Secondly, no one is saying you should pick and choose advice. No one is saying you should set yourself up for as your own judge. No one is saying you should be disobedient in normal circumstances at any time.

Everyone here agrees with St Francis. Actually St Francis makes my point: "Confess thyself often,--choose a single-minded, worthy confessor, who is able wisely to teach thee how to do that which is needful for thee."..."A faithful friend, is a strong defence, A faithful friend is the medicine of life; and they that fear the Lord shall find him... we specially need a faithful friend, who will guide us by his counsel and advice, thereby guarding us against the deceits and snares of the Evil One... But who can find such a friend? ... the truly humble soul which earnestly desires to advance in the spiritual life... do you pray most earnestly to God to supply you with a guide after His Own Heart, and never doubt but that He will grant you one who is wise and faithful." 

St Francis assumes there is a need for friendship, and advice, not a dictatorship. We can all agree on that. So, there doesn't seem to be a disagreement here.

What I am saying is that you shouldn't completely trust yourself to "just know" or assume that because they are popular or a priest or more orthodox-minded you can find out who is a good guide, especially if you are a young, emotional woman, to be frank. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by veritasluxmea