Feankie Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I forgot to add that my Supervisor would offer guidance/praise/suggestions/etc/ on what I said or didn't say, the way it was said, inflections in the voice, etc. It may sound a bit nit-picky but every session with my Supervisor was like mining for gold ---- little nuggets for me to take, digest, and use to help hone my skills. Oh, we also PRAYED together during these critiques.....most important !! Only after this critical year was completed could I even think about getting certified. I often wish I could say that what I was offering was Spiritual Accompaniment - walking with someone on their journey and adding the richness of that encounter to my journey as well. I also participate in a fair amount of continuing ed and reading relevant to my work....rather, I should call it a ministry as that is what it really is. It is a privilege and honor, not to mention humbling, to walk with another person in their search for the Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egeria Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 And, before the flowering of all these courses and certifications (been there, done that, well, some of it, have a pretty good idea of what you're all talking about), was there no spiritual direction in the Churches? All I am suggesting is that this represents one specific approach and should not be presented as universal or timeless, but should rather be seen (and, when necessary, critiqued) within its own specific context. But that is another topic that is beyond the scope of this thread. And none of this is not to deny that what Mary Catherine says raises red flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunsuch Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Of course there was spiritual direction before formal training. And no doubt some people have natural talents and gifts. There were also physicians and healers before there were medical schools. But I prefer the present system, where gifts and talents can be enhanced by the training that is available. To suggest simply that "God will give the grace" is somewhat naive. God also gives us common sense, and trusts us to take advantage of the full range of what's out there--including expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inperpetuity Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Yes, I will say a prayer for you to have a very fruitful Lent. I would be very hesitant to talk about specific spiritual advice from your director, whom you've chosen for a reason, on a public forum. I do not know you as your spiritual director and have no idea what the circumstances of your relationship, your life, is but I can say that this: "I think he's not satisfied with the congregation either, now he asked me to pray much during this Lent." sounds like speculation on your part and good advice on his. Edited February 17, 2016 by inperpetuity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) 43 minutes ago, inperpetuity said: Yes, I will say a prayer for you to have a very fruitful Lent. I would be very hesitant to talk about specific spiritual advice from your director, whom you've chosen for a reason, on a public forum. I do not know you as your spiritual director and have no idea what the circumstances of your relationship, your life, is but I can say that this: "I think he's not satisfied with the congregation either, now he asked me to pray much during this Lent." sounds like speculation on your part and good advice on his. I agree. Please remember this is a forum! No one here knows you as well as your director - including myself This forum is great for prayers/support/info/general advice. There are very qualified posters here. (And random Catholics like me). At the end of the day though, we are all people on the internet, and your SD is someone you've opened your soul to. Edited February 17, 2016 by MarysLittleFlower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Catherine Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 Dear sisters, Thanks for your comment..My spiritual director is a diocesan priest, very holy and traditional, he offers Latin mass now and then and everyone likes him. I think I should be blindly obedient to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 "Dear sisters, Thanks for your comment..My spiritual director is a diocesan priest, very holy and traditional, he offers Latin mass now and then and everyone likes him. I think I should be blindly obedient to him" I will pray for you as, among other things, no person should be blindly obedient to another. Of course,this may change when and if you are in a monastery/convent and are under the vow of obedience. Please, please don't abdicate your God-given free-will to another. That is one of the signs of a cult- being blindly obedient to its leader. Now don't jump all over me on this last point.........it's just a statement of fact. And I'm not saying it applies here:) You should take his advice and make your own decision as you are not bound by vows or promises to him. Remember, you are following HIS decision/s for YOUR life. What if he's wrong? Then what? No human is infallible. Please be very careful and think this situation through before you do anything you may regret in the future. God gave us free will for a reason, and He gave us the Holy Spirit to help us in our decision making processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Mary Catherine said: Dear sisters, Thanks for your comment..My spiritual director is a diocesan priest, very holy and traditional, he offers Latin mass now and then and everyone likes him. I think I should be blindly obedient to him. He sounds like a good priest! 20 minutes ago, Francis Clare said: "Dear sisters, Thanks for your comment..My spiritual director is a diocesan priest, very holy and traditional, he offers Latin mass now and then and everyone likes him. I think I should be blindly obedient to him" I will pray for you as, among other things, no person should be blindly obedient to another. Of course,this may change when and if you are in a monastery/convent and are under the vow of obedience. Please, please don't abdicate your God-given free-will to another. That is one of the signs of a cult- being blindly obedient to its leader. Now don't jump all over me on this last point.........it's just a statement of fact. And I'm not saying it applies here:) You should take his advice and make your own decision as you are not bound by vows or promises to him. Remember, you are following HIS decision/s for YOUR life. What if he's wrong? Then what? No human is infallible. Please be very careful and think this situation through before you do anything you may regret in the future. God gave us free will for a reason, and He gave us the Holy Spirit to help us in our decision making processes. Francis Clare, it doesn't seem to me like this is a case of cult like "obedience".. I think it would be wrong if the SD said to sin or micro managed areas of life. Here it seems he's a priest who is giving spiritual advice and Mary feels she should trust it. To me personally this makes sense, for example I have scruples and in a case like mine, I read that the way to cure it is to make ones confessors conscience your own. If I questioned things he told me I'd just rely on self will and feed my pride. Maybe the OP isn't scrupulous like me but she seems to be describing a similar idea of trusting the SD with her soul. I've always seen that as commendable and a good way to grow in humility. I heard we can't vow obedience to a priest or have the same obedience as in a convent but I think unquestioningly accepting spiritual advice from someone qualified is a good way to holiness? Based on various things I read from the Saints... Sometimes when people take their spiritual life very seriously but rely on their own judgement, things go very wrong and I've seen people struggle greatly from this.. Maybe Mary meant "blind obedience" in a different way than the cult like type of "blind obedience"? I can't speak for her but I think she probably meant trust and not relying on one owns judgement. Maybe she would clarify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I don't think I can add anything else to this discussion as it seems to be a circular one. Similar to a few others currently active on the board. We go round and round and round.. And those who have much life, practical, and scholastic experience and knowledge about the topic/s are summarily discounted or their opinions are pooh-poohed for various and sundry reasons. Perhaps it's better for me to just keep reading and praying rather than responding as it becomes an exercise in frustration. Let's just say I'm observing the "Grand Silence" for a bit :)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I am of the understanding that we don't need to have fears about an SD being wrong, because even if he's wrong, we are doing good by trusting. There were times in the lives of the Saints when their SD or Confessor got something wrong about them (like rejecting their revelations if they had them), but God showed them He was happy with their obedience and later the SD changed his mind. The Saints really felt their revelations were from God but if their SD said to ignore them, they did, even if interiorly they still felt they were real. Later God helped the SD and rewarded the Saints for their obedience. So I think even if the OP is totally converted and her SD is saying she needs more conversion, she would be blessed in following her SDs view :) and who doesn't need more conversion? I know I do :) its a good advice. IMO :) I remember a story of St Gemma where her SD 'accused' her of a fault she didn't commit, and she sincerely repented and believed him. I think this sort of thing goes completely against our cultural values of freedom etc but in St Gemma we can see such simplicity and humility in this act. Anyways based on.this thread maybe many would disagree with me but this is how my view formed and if I'm wrong, then no one has to listen to me. But I do wonder about those Saint stories. 8 minutes ago, Francis Clare said: I don't think I can add anything else to this discussion as it seems to be a circular one. Similar to a few others currently active on the board. We go round and round and round.. And those who have much life, practical, and scholastic experience and knowledge about the topic/s are summarily discounted or their opinions are pooh-poohed for various and sundry reasons. Perhaps it's better for me to just keep reading and praying rather than responding as it becomes an exercise in frustration. Let's just say I'm observing the "Grand Silence" for a bit :)) Francis Clare, I think your view is shared by many in this thread, and I'm not saying its not legitimate :) most seem to have the same view as you, and that's ok.with me, - I know sometimes my views are really different from many here which makes me wonder if I'm right or wrong... Maybe our sources are different. Anyways I was trying to share a bit of a different perspective. Maybe we don't actually disagree but are speaking past each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie de Sales Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Just sharing my own opinion on this topic, about obeying one's SD. I think that once you have found someone you trust with your soul, there is great freedom into following his advice. As MLF, I also struggle with scruples and when I give up on my false fears because my confessor told me so, I grow closer to God and become more myself. When it comes to choosing a vocation, I believe that a good SD should have a special gift of discernment and because of this I would always take his advice to prayer and try to follow it, especially if I'm filled with peace and consolation. Also, I suppose most SD don't abuse their authority and they have serious resons for the guidance that they provide. Especially if that person is a "very holy priest" as the OP said. I'm aware that there are 2 directions when it comes to spiritual direction: one where the SD is more of a companion in the spiritual journey of the directee and the second where he/she is more like a spiritual master that teaches you how to grow in your relationship with God. I personally prefer the second approach, maybe because it also gives me a sense of security; if I obey, I know that I'm doing God's will and even if the SD is wrong, something good will come out of it. I guess it's about finding a balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I'm was going to bite my tongue and not say anything, but I bristle a bit at the above post. About obeying one's SD. I don't expect my directees to obey me, but take what we discuss and chew on it, digest it, take it to prayer and the Scriptures, and bring it back for more discussion if needed. Then, and only then, make a decision or take a step - both of which can certainly be visited again. Yes, I may be a companion on one's spiritual journey, but my job is to also lead my directees into a deeper relationship with God. I'm now positive there is a rampant misconception of SD's on this board. You must define what exactly you're talking about when you refer to a SD. Is it your confessor? If so, there is a completely different dimension to the relationship. Even so, one just should not abdicate their free will and choices to another. Just because one is a priest or a religious does not make one a better SD than a lay person. The priest, of course, has different faculties through ordination, but that does not cause him to have a better gift of discernment than a lay SD. If my directees did NOT grow closer to God through our sessions, I would hang up my hat in an instant. And with this my "silence" begins again as I feel I could explain until I'm blue in the face and it would still make no difference. Age, life and theological experience, education, etc. DO make a difference my friends I do hope you'll understand this last sentence as you continue your walk towards Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egeria Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 16 minutes ago, Francis Clare said: I'm now positive there is a rampant misconception of SD's on this board. Once more, Francis Clare, and despite the fact that the term "blind obedience" does rather jar with me too, you seem to be seeking to deny that your perceptions of spiritual direction are not the only ones in Christian history. Really, despite sympathizing with many of your concerns, it is the hegemonic nature of your claims that really annoys me. The discourse of various movements concerned with spiritual direction of the last half century or so, despite their positive contributions, is not the final word on anything. There are also other traditions, histories, and approaches, which also have a right to be heard and discussed. But I'm also opting out of this discussion as I fear that we are simply talking past each other. And really, this all requires considerably more unpacking, which I don't have time for at present. But it is an important topic that I wish somebody qualified would write more on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Francis Clare said: (Sorry about the formatting im not sure why my phone is quoting an earlier post) I think there may be different views of spiritual direction and we've all heard a different one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Frankly, I don't believe I"m being hegemonic at all. Rather, I am speaking from education and experience. No where did I state I was the final authority on the subject as I don't think any one person or source can be. As it is, if you would look at my other posts, I am quite able and have the requisite theological, historical, and practical knowledge to write more on the subject, yet I chose not to as to not gum up the central point/s of the other posters. Citing the various historical and theological origins of SD in Roman Catholicism and other denominations was and is not my goal as it would take way to long and lead to several rabbit trails. My main goal in all of this was to spare possible hurt, etc. when putting one's eggs in one basket, so to speak. If you wish to insult me or slap my hand, please do it in a PM. I have done nothing IMO to annoy you, rather it is you who choose to be annoyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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