Men's religious life 35+

[bardegaulois]

Lately on my mind has been the question of the human need for community and how that might affect us all in our various lifestyles and vocations, and also how there are several souls who, whether through choice or circumstance, don’t have that. Perhaps I can number myself among those who don’t, and it’s frankly starting to become somewhat more onerous than it formerly did. Over the past few years I’ve been diving into my work with abandon, but lately I’ve been feeling that I’ve been pushing myself too much, and I’m dog-tired.

Once upon a time, I considered the diocesan priesthood, but it’s difficult to say that my motives were clear then, and a rejection by the diocese with no reason given closed the door there. After wandering for a few years, during which my devotional life actually improved when I discovered the Traditional Latin Mass, I then got to considering a few priestly societies of apostolic life only to find out that I had missed their age deadlines by a year or two. Now, any young man who discerns a vocation in the Catholic Church knows that the priesthood is presented very strongly, but religious life (save as a path to the priesthood) is usually presented only as an afterthought, if at all. Coming to understand quite a bit more about religious life, I’m starting to wonder anew if it shouldn’t be more of an option.

However, it’s not necessarily as straightforward as that. To begin, I am 36 years of age. Many orders or communities place their age cutoff at 30 or 35. Secondly, a rich liturgical life is very important to me. I noted that I frequent the TLM; I’ve even trained priests and altar boys in Low Mass and Missa Cantata. Alas, my home diocese cares very little for the TLM, so I’m left on most Sundays crossing diocesan borders to travel for an hour, leaving me, so to speak, without a church near to me home and tenuous relations with most of the local clergy. It even seems somewhat irrational to me, but liturgical abuse and irreverence having been matter of course in my younger years, a very reverent and traditional liturgy (and not necessarily TLM even) are indispensible to me.

Lastly, I study a lot. Much of my down time is spent with a book or with journals. I work as a tutor at a community college. Perhaps you could call me an intellectual. I think I’d have been very happy as a Dominican; I’m alas too old to join them now. To look back at the history of men’s religious life, we know that in the 19^th and early 20^th centuries often only the priests were given the leisure to have a life of the mind; brothers were often looked at as illiterate labourers who weren’t even invited to join the Office. We also know that the Second Vatican Council set out to change that and to restore a greater equality between all members of the order, cleric and lay alike. However, we know how kindly those favouring the TLM look on the 19^th and early 20^th century. Without an intellectual life, I would likely find myself becoming somewhat more frustrated than I am now.

So, in short, here are my three big criteria: 1. Accepts men over 35; 2. Has a reverent and traditional liturgy; and 3. Allows for an intellectual life. Also desirable would be somewhere within the Northeastern US, but that is something I can dispense with if necessary. Is anyone familiar with any monasteries or communities that may fulfill these three big criteria?

Thanks for your kind consideration.

[BarbTherese]

I don't know much at all about your subject and I am hoping that you will get plenty of helpful responses as I am sure that you will

Here is a website that looks to me quite comprehensive that might be of interest Catholic Vocations Network - including for male late vocations    "Site allows you to navigate volunteer opportunities or search for vocations by first quizzing your preferences with the "Vocation Match" tool." ( Catholic Guide to Internet )

Insofar as I can find anyway with a rather quick research, the above vocations network site does seem to be "Catholic ok".

God's Blessings.

 

 

[Luigi]

St. Benedict's Abbey (Benedictines) in Massachusetts is a small community (currently eight monks) of the Subiaco-Cassinese congregation. This is a contemplative congregation - prayer and work, but no active apostolate. They sing the office in Latin Gregorian chant. They are currently a priory, under the abbacy of Pluscarden Abbey in Scotland. They are a "twin" house with the Nuns of St. Mary's - they sing the office together in the same church. 

They accept candidates up to 40 years old.  

As far as study, I'm sure you'd have time to do so, but I don't know how much. And I guess you'd have to negotiate with the prior what your field of study would be, but my understanding is that any monastery would be happy to have a church historian, a liturgist, a canon lawyer, a theologian, or anything of that nature. 

Their web page is quite extensive and informative: http://stmarysmonastery.org/index.html

[Gabriela]

Here's what comes to mind:

Canons Regular of the New Jerusalem 

https://www.facebook.com/The-Canons-Regular-of-the-New-Jerusalem-129365303759853/

Their website is down right now, but their Facebook page should give you an idea. They have a guest house and regular discerners, so welcome all to visit.

They have no age limit, but are still an association of the faithful, if that bothers you. They're in my home town and I LOVE them and compare all Masses to theirs (nobody compares favorably to them, unfortunately—I have been spoiled by the Canons, for the worse ). Since they are canons, they would require that you become a priest. They have thoughts of teaching in a school, but don't want to start one themselves. They do teach children in other capacities already, and I think they would be interested if someone else started a school and wanted them to go teach in it.

One of their brothers is EXTREMELY intellectual, and he seems happy enough. He often gives conferences and workshops for the people who attend the priory Masses. It's a very vibrant community. I miss it so much.  

If you decide to discern with them, PM me so I can give you more info and some tips.

 

St. Louis Benedictines 

http://www.stlouisabbey.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=84

This is where I go to Mass right now. I go to extraordinary lengths to attend their conventual Mass every day at 5:45, because I attended a dozen other Masses in the area and nobody satisfied me. (Thanks a lot, Canons! ) Their conventual Mass is a very reverent Novus Ordo with quite a bit of Latin (usually). They also celebrate the TLM daily in a smaller chapel in the parish hall. As things are, it seems they are moving—very, very slowly—toward an all-TLM thing. But many monks will have to die first (not saying that to be harsh, just because all their young monks are the ones who want the TLM, and they're letting them have it, but slowly, probably for stability's sake). They run a school and state no age limit on their website. 

 

In general, I find that Trappists have much higher age limits than other orders. For example:

Gethsemani Trappists

http://www.monks.org/index.php/vocations/vocations

Age limit: 50. I have never been to the Mass here.

 

New Clairvaux Trappists

http://www.newclairvaux.org/initial-inquiry.html

Age limit: 40

 

St. Benedict's Trappists

http://www.snowmass.org/monastery/entering-the-monastery

Age limit: 50

 

Holy Spirit Trappists

http://www.trappist.net/join-us/be-monk

Age limit: None

 

New Melleray Trappists

http://www.newmelleray.org/vocations.asp

Age limit: 45

 

St. Joseph's Trappists

http://www.spencerabbey.org/becoming-a-monk/ 

Age limit: None

These monks are in Spencer, Massachusetts and have a discernment weekend coming up THIS weekend!

 

Assumption Trappists

http://www.assumptionabbey.org/faq.asp

Not accepting vocations at present, but have a "Monastery and World" program that allows men to live in the community part- or full-time, which would be a great way to try the life for an extended period of time before committing.

 

Genesee Trappists

http://www.geneseeabbey.org/vocations/requirements-and-procedures/

Age limit: 50

 

Our Lady of Guadalupe Trappists

http://trappistabbey.org/?page_id=258

Age limit: None

 

Mepkin Trappists

http://mepkinabbey.org/wordpress/becoming-a-monk/

Age limit: None

 

Our Lady of Dallas Cistercians

http://www.cistercian.org/abbey/vocations/

Age limit: None

These men run a school.

 

Holy Cross Trappists

https://www.virginiatrappists.org/join-us-in-prayer/join-us/vocation/

Age limit: None

 

So you see, there's still plenty of opportunity for you to be a monk—if you want to be a Trappist.  

Personally, when I'm at the St. Louis Abbey and see one of the lay brothers pass, my heart leaps. I love the lay brothers. More than I love the ordained brothers, I'm sorry to say. I don't know why. I just love a religious man who "isn't ambitious". I mean, these days, with the state of affairs you mention, it's rare to meet a brother who's not ordained. I think it takes real discernment and humility and probably also a lot of strength to resist pressure for a man to make that choice to remain unordained. I have deep respect for that.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Gabriela

[NadaTeTurbe]

Is there an Opus Dei center close to you ? They have priest, but you can also be a numerary. Even if you don't enter the Opus Dei, Saint Josemaria's spirituality is a good one. 

[AveMariaPurissima]

I know you mentioned that you're too old to join the Dominicans, but have you been in contact with them at all?  Eastern (St. Joseph) Province's cutoff is 35, but their website says they consider exceptions for older candidates.

From the FAQ page of their vocations website:

• What are the criteria to apply? Am I eligible?  (age, education, etc.)

• Applicants must be between the ages of 20 and 35. Exceptions are made for older candidates depending on skills and experience. Clerical brother candidates are required to have a bachelor’s degree from a four year college or university. Cooperator brother candidates are required to be have a high school diploma and at least two years of college or work experience. Candidates must be living a virtuous Christian life, free from scandal. They must possess the discipline of a sound prayer life along with a deep desire to be of service to Christ and His Church according to the Dominican charism.  All candidates must possess good physical health, psychological and emotional maturity. New converts normally must be a Catholic for at least three years (though they could make a vocation weekend right away).

If you haven't contacted them, it's worth a try...

http://vocations.opeast.org/

More information about the cooperator brothers: http://vocations.opeast.org/vocation/cooperator-brothers/

 

[Egeria]

I was also going to say that 36 doesn't sound old for the Trappists, but Gabriela beat me to it. I wouldn't have thought that it would be too old for many communities of Benedictines either, but then I'm more familiar with European monasteries than American ones. Given what you say about study (and possibly also about Liturgy, although it depends on what reverent and rich mean for you in this regard), Benedictines may be a better direction to look in than Cistercians (or at least Trappists), if you are drawn in a monastic direction. Trappists do a certain amount of study (and the men's houses have a better tradition in this regard than the women's houses), but they tend to have more of an emphasis on manual labour. They also tend (even historically) to have more of an emphasis on simplicity when it comes to Liturgy. Of course, all this varies from house to house, and among Benedictines there are even more differences, so it would be really important to get to know individual communities and see how you respond to them (and they to you). But I wouldn't worry too much about the age thing among monastics.

I'm also throwing this out as a wild card just in case: The Byzantine Catholic monks of Holy Resurrection Monastery. It's obviously a whole different world, but they do fit your criteria and I've been very impressed by some of what I've read by and about them. (The website doesn't say anything about age, but I very much doubt it would be an issue).

 

 

[bardegaulois]

Thank you all for your replies. You've given me a good deal to follow up on. There are a few replies here that I'd like to respond to particularly.

Barb, I'd like to add a little caveat about the Catholic Vocations Network tool. I used that at least a decade ago, more for the aims of self-knowledge than for any serious matter of discernment, and I wouldn't recommend it for a few reasons. Firstly, it doesn't really winnow the field very much as the questions it asks are too broad. Secondly, it asks for too much personal information, which they passed on to certain communities without my knowledge, and which I fear they could easily sell to advertisers. Their telephone calls and e-mails to me became a little too much over time, and I asked them kindly to stop. Lastly, I get the sense that it's like the yellow pages; a community has to pay to be advertised, which leads to a lot of smaller groups and those that are less public getting short shrift. I would frankly recommend that it be eschewed.

Gabriela, thank you for the very complete information. I'll send you a PM presently.

Nada, I can't confess to being inspired much by Escriva. El Camino was a rather tedious read for me, my overall impression being that it was little more than a banal platitudes that gravely lacked in depth. Different strokes for different folks, perhaps, but Escriva is one of those rare saints who actually bored me.

I'll check in later after having done some more research.

 

[Gabriela]

4 hours ago, bardegaulois said:

Thank you all for your replies. You've given me a good deal to follow up on. There are a few replies here that I'd like to respond to particularly.

Barb, I'd like to add a little caveat about the Catholic Vocations Network tool. I used that at least a decade ago, more for the aims of self-knowledge than for any serious matter of discernment, and I wouldn't recommend it for a few reasons. Firstly, it doesn't really winnow the field very much as the questions it asks are too broad. Secondly, it asks for too much personal information, which they passed on to certain communities without my knowledge, and which I fear they could easily sell to advertisers. Their telephone calls and e-mails to me became a little too much over time, and I asked them kindly to stop. Lastly, I get the sense that it's like the yellow pages; a community has to pay to be advertised, which leads to a lot of smaller groups and those that are less public getting short shrift. I would frankly recommend that it be eschewed.

Gabriela, thank you for the very complete information. I'll send you a PM presently.

Nada, I can't confess to being inspired much by Escriva. El Camino was a rather tedious read for me, my overall impression being that it was little more than a banal platitudes that gravely lacked in depth. Different strokes for different folks, perhaps, but Escriva is one of those rare saints who actually bored me.

I'll check in later after having done some more research.

 

Don't feel bad. MOST of the saints bore me.  

[Luigi]

Another Benedictine monastery to consider is Holy Cross in Chicago. Not exactly the Northeast, but not the edge of creation, either. It's a small community. They are committed to reverent liturgy. I think they sing the office in Latin. Very traditional in a lot of ways. And I think your age would not be a particular concern. They revamped their website last year, and it's now pretty extensive and informative.

http://chicagomonk.org/about-us/ 

 

However, I wouldn't give up on the Dominicans if I were you. They may prefer applicants under 35, but they'll take guys older than that if they're a good fit. The Central province page is here: http://opcentral.org/join-us/faqs/ Now, in terms of litugy, I doubt that the Dominicans do much with the TLM, but they do celebrate the Dominican rite, which is apparently somewhat different from the Novus Ordo. Check out the Western Dominican pages for more about that. http://www.opwest.org 

[truthfinder]

I believe the Western Dominicans will occasionally offer the 'traditional' Dominincan rite too.

[Egeria]

2 hours ago, Luigi said:

Another Benedictine monastery to consider is Holy Cross in Chicago. Not exactly the Northeast, but not the edge of creation, either. It's a small community. They are committed to reverent liturgy. I think they sing the office in Latin. Very traditional in a lot of ways. And I think your age would not be a particular concern. They revamped their website last year, and it's now pretty extensive and informative.

http://chicagomonk.org/about-us/ 

I was actually thinking about this community when I responded, but couldn't remember it's name or where it was (except that it was in some American city and had a connection to Christ in the Desert Monastery). I used to read the prior's blog a number of years ago and found it very good and glancing at it now makes me think that it would definitely be worth recommending to anyone interested in a monastic vocation.  Anyway, just to echo Luigi's suggestion... fwiw!

[NadaTeTurbe]

10 hours ago, bardegaulois said:

Thank you all for your replies. You've given me a good deal to follow up on. There are a few replies here that I'd like to respond to particularly.

Barb, I'd like to add a little caveat about the Catholic Vocations Network tool. I used that at least a decade ago, more for the aims of self-knowledge than for any serious matter of discernment, and I wouldn't recommend it for a few reasons. Firstly, it doesn't really winnow the field very much as the questions it asks are too broad. Secondly, it asks for too much personal information, which they passed on to certain communities without my knowledge, and which I fear they could easily sell to advertisers. Their telephone calls and e-mails to me became a little too much over time, and I asked them kindly to stop. Lastly, I get the sense that it's like the yellow pages; a community has to pay to be advertised, which leads to a lot of smaller groups and those that are less public getting short shrift. I would frankly recommend that it be eschewed.

Gabriela, thank you for the very complete information. I'll send you a PM presently.

Nada, I can't confess to being inspired much by Escriva. El Camino was a rather tedious read for me, my overall impression being that it was little more than a banal platitudes that gravely lacked in depth. Different strokes for different folks, perhaps, but Escriva is one of those rare saints who actually bored me.

I'll check in later after having done some more research.

 

I've heard a lot of strong reaction about St Josemaria, but "boring" is the first one. But I can see what you mean, he is not very subtle or intellectual.  

There's three traditionnalist religious communities in France that, (I think, I'm not sure), accept older vocations : Lagrasse canon ( http://www.lagrasse.org/ : Augustinian spirituality, service of the Church, liturgical life), Fraternity of Saint Vincent (dominicans who only use the dominican TLM : http://www.chemere.org/qui-sommes-nous/ . They have priests and brothers), and the Barroux abbey (at least, it used to be like this, but now that they're so popular, I don't know). Just in case you're ready to cross the ocean. 

The community of Saint John ? I've no idea if there's an age limit. 

[Gabriela]

The Central Province Dominicans certainly have nothing to do with the TLM. Their liturgies tend to be quite... erm... "modern". The Eastern Province is much more traditional, and there is a priest in the Western Province—somewhere in San Francisco—who regularly celebrates the Dominican Rite, which is basically the TLM with a few very small differences that you wouldn't notice unless you looked for them.

[BarbTherese]

22 hours ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

Barb, I'd like to add a little caveat about the Catholic Vocations Network tool. I used that at least a decade ago, more for the aims of self-knowledge than for any serious matter of discernment, and I wouldn't recommend it for a few reasons. Firstly, it doesn't really winnow the field very much as the questions it asks are too broad. Secondly, it asks for too much personal information, which they passed on to certain communities without my knowledge, and which I fear they could easily sell to advertisers. Their telephone calls and e-mails to me became a little too much over time, and I asked them kindly to stop. Lastly, I get the sense that it's like the yellow pages; a community has to pay to be advertised, which leads to a lot of smaller groups and those that are less public getting short shrift. I would frankly recommend that it be eschewed

Goodness, thank you for the info!  Eschewed!

Edit: The post I quoted above was from bardegaulois.  Apologies...not my day.

Edited April 7, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[bardegaulois]

After your replies and my own research into and prayer upon the matter, I believe my first investigation will be along the monastic route. It was actually my first suspicion that monasticism would likely be the best direction for me to take, and my consideration has me leaning more in that direction. Of course, that opens up yet further questions. The Rule of St. Benedict gives us the general framework, but a monastery isn't like an order or a congregation; each house is independent and thus has its own distinct personality.

Thus, limiting myself to six hours' driving distance (as I'm only occasionally able to get away overnight for the time being), I'm now going to start visiting houses to hear their liturgies and to get a sense of their environment, to see which I'd like to visit again for a longer period in the summer when I will better be able. Doing so surreptitiously and anonymously for now strikes me as much more becoming than simply writing the unsolicited letters I have in the past, in which I'm never quite sure how I come across. Once I get to know more about the house I'll figure out best what to write.

How to broach the question of scholarship, though, may be difficult. No doubt my intention is to imitate Christ more perfectly than is possible in the world and in doing so to become better formed to His image and more secure of my final salvation. That is of course the best to focus on for the time being. If I were to say in the beginning, though, that I read Latin and some Greek and have read broadly in philosophy, Sacred Scripture, Patristics, Church history, moral and dogmatic theology, liturgy, and canon law, in addition to the other branches of the liberal arts, I worry if I come across as proud or ambitious. To be frank, I don't know how to resolve this. Any ideas?

[Charbel]

1 hour ago, bardegaulois said:

How to broach the question of scholarship, though, may be difficult. No doubt my intention is to imitate Christ more perfectly than is possible in the world and in doing so to become better formed to His image and more secure of my final salvation. That is of course the best to focus on for the time being. If I were to say in the beginning, though, that I read Latin and some Greek and have read broadly in philosophy, Sacred Scripture, Patristics, Church history, moral and dogmatic theology, liturgy, and canon law, in addition to the other branches of the liberal arts, I worry if I come across as proud or ambitious. To be frank, I don't know how to resolve this. Any ideas?

I think that we often forget WHO it was who gave us the talents we have. God gave you these plentiful and wonderful abilities and talents so that you could not only glorify Him in your work, but share with others these gifts that He bestowed upon you. This is something I often struggle with, as in "am I being proud in admitting this talent I can do?" (I also think one of the reasons this often comes across my mind is because the word "talent" itself sounds proud, but only if we forget to thank and glorify our Creator for giving them to us)

When I was discerning with a particular community, I started off with phone calls, so as to avoid the "How will I come across in this letter" question, and also because I tend to have a hard time describing myself in general, but on paper - much worse. So, that's just me. But, I did find it MUCH easier to contact them with questions I had and hearing one of the sisters speak gave me the assurance that I was speaking to human beings and not just sending something off into a monastic void. It was a lot easier to open up about myself, and it gave them more opportunities to ask questions about me so I wasn't doing all the work in trying to describe myself and my abilities.

When I would tell them "Oh, I can sew" "Yes I cook often" "I read all the time!" "Oh yes, I very much like to embroider", it wasn't so much "look at me and all these things I can do" but more "these are the talents God gave me, this is what I have to offer"

Try phone calls and real person visits, if you can. I know some communities also do things like skype. It is just MY personal opinion that it is better to start off with a phone call, and then when you know them a little bit, letters are a great way to keep them updated on you and to ask them questions you may not have remembered to ask in person or on a phone call.

I suppose my main point is to just try letting those things (reading Latin and some Greek, philosophy, Sacred Scripture, Patristics, Church history, moral and dogmatic theology, liturgy, and canon law, in addition to the other branches of the liberal arts - lol) just allow them to come up in conversation, because then there's less chance to be perceived as proud or arrogant.

[Egeria]

I second the idea of letting those things come up gradually as you get to know a community. I once got a decidedly frosty response when I said in an initial letter that I was on the verge of completing a doctorate in theology. I had to say something about what I was doing and it was from the other side of the world before the days of the Internet so I couldn't get to know the communities gradually, which would have been a much better idea. I later heard that it was just that particular novice mistress, and I might also add that other monastic communities responded quite differently. But getting to know communities - and allowing them to get to know you - gradually sounds like a much better idea.

In case you don't know it, you may find the OSB Atlas helpful in working out which communities are within your region.

[Sponsa-Christi]

30 minutes ago, Egeria said:

I once got a decidedly frosty response when I said in an initial letter that I was on the verge of completing a doctorate in theology.

Just wondering, what was the issue with working on a doctorate in theology? (If you feel comfortable sharing, that is.) There are certainly a lot worse things one could be doing with one's time.

[Egeria]

43 minutes ago, Sponsa-Christi said:

Just wondering, what was the issue with working on a doctorate in theology? (If you feel comfortable sharing, that is.) There are certainly a lot worse things one could be doing with one's time.

I really don't know, Sponsa. It may have been my interpretation that that's what caused the frostiness, but it was a very short and very initial letter in which I didn't say more than a few lines, so I don't know what else could have been a problem, unless it was the fact that I was a foreigner. It's also possible that the frostiness was a cultural thing, although I had much more positive responses to the same letter from other communities in the same country. As it happened, I never did visit that monastery. I did make a point of trying, but the dates just didn't work out and, well, given the initial response and having received much more welcoming responses elsewhere, I didn't pursue it.

To be honest, I did later have a community raise the issue of whether I would find enough intellectual stimulation in their community, although more in the sense of saying this is something to look at, rather than saying don't come. And I think that is a valid concern. But the irony is that the community I received the frosty response from actually had a reputation for scholarship. But, as I later heard from someone who had been there, it may just have been an issue with that particular novice mistress, or she might just have been having a bad day. And if I had been closer by and had got to know the community gradually, the experience would probably have been very different.