little2add Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) josh, You do know that you've got to go through hell Before you get to heaven, even Jesus had too. Don't we say in the Apostolic Creed, “…and suffered under Pontius Pilate…was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again and ascended into heaven. do you like "the steve miller band" check out "jet airliner" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzGHzitfnAY Edited January 3, 2017 by little2add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 42 minutes ago, little2add said: josh, You do know that you've got to go through hell Before you get to heaven, even Jesus had too. Don't we say in the Apostolic Creed, “…and suffered under Pontius Pilate…was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again and ascended into heaven. Please clarify what you mean by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Just now, little2add said: josh, You do know that you've got to go through hell Before you get to heaven, even Jesus had too. No if I end up in hell Heaven won't be a possibility. If I make it to Heaven then most likely the fires of purgatory will await me to some extent beforehand. Although as horrible as purgatory might be it could never compare to the never-ending torments of hell. Edited January 4, 2017 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, little2add said: You do know that you've got to go through hell Before you get to heaven, even Jesus had too. Don't we say in the Apostolic Creed, “…and suffered under Pontius Pilate…was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again and ascended into heaven. Wasn't that the Limbo of the Fathers/Sheol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 23 minutes ago, Jack4 said: Wasn't that the Limbo of the Fathers/Sheol? Yes, hell of the Dead rather than hell of the damned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said: Please clarify what you mean by this. I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy CatholicChurch, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and lifeeverlasting. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, little2add said: I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy CatholicChurch, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and lifeeverlasting. Amen. I think @Nihil Obstat was not asking for this. It seems to me that he wanted more "detail" on your statement "you've got to go through hell Before you get to heaven, even Jesus had too", since it is not clear enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The state of the dead Christ is the mystery of the tomb and the descent into hell. 624 "By the grace of God" Jesus tasted death "for every one".459 In his plan of salvation, God ordained that his Son should not only "die for our sins"460 but should also "taste death", experience the condition of death, the separation of his soul from his body, between the time he expired on the cross and the time he was raised from the dead. The state of the dead Christ is the mystery of the tomb and the descent into hell. It is the mystery of Holy Saturday, when Christ, lying in the tomb,461 reveals God's great sabbath rest462 after the fulfillment463 of man's salvation, which brings peace to the whole universe.464 Christ in the tomb in his body 625 Christ's stay in the tomb constitutes the real link between his passible state before Easter and his glorious and risen state today. The same person of the "Living One" can say, "I died, and behold I am alive for evermore":465 God [the Son] did not impede death from separating his soul from his body according to the necessary order of nature, but has reunited them to one another in the Resurrection, so that he himself might be, in his person, the meeting point for death and life, by arresting in himself the decomposition of nature produced by death and so becoming the source of reunion for the separated parts.466 626 Since the "Author of life" who was killed467 is the same "living one [who has] risen",468 the divine person of the Son of God necessarily continued to possess his human soul and body, separated from each other by death: By the fact that at Christ's death his soul was separated from his flesh, his one person is not itself divided into two persons; for the human body and soul of Christ have existed in the same way from the beginning of his earthly existence, in the divine person of the Word; and in death, although separated from each other, both remained with one and the same person of the Word.469 "You will not let your Holy One see corruption" 627 Christ's death was a real death in that it put an end to his earthly human existence. But because of the union which the person of the Son retained with his body, his was not a mortal corpse like others, for "it was not possible for death to hold him"470 and therefore "divine power preserved Christ's body from corruption."471 Both of these statements can be said of Christ: "He was cut off out of the land of the living",472 and "My flesh will dwell in hope. For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, nor let your Holy One see corruption."473 Jesus' Resurrection "on the third day" was the sign of this, also because bodily decay was held to begin on the fourth day after death.474 "Buried with Christ. . ." 628 Baptism, the original and full sign of which is immersion, efficaciously signifies the descent into the tomb by the Christian who dies to sin with Christ in order to live a new life. "We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."475 IN BRIEF 629 To the benefit of every man, Jesus Christ tasted death (cf. Heb 2:9). It is truly the Son of God made man who died and was buried. CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Okay, I'll make clear what (I think) Nihil's asking. Do you, little2add, believe that Jesus suffered the fate of the damned, even if only for a short period? Simply parroting the creed or CCC paragraphs doesn't answer this question. This idea, by the way, comes from John Calvin and has for the most part been rejected throughout the history of the Church. Here's a good primer on the topic: http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/09/john-calvins-worst-heresy-that-christ-suffered-in-hell/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 41 minutes ago, Amppax said: Okay, I'll make clear what (I think) Nihil's asking. Do you, little2add, believe that Jesus suffered the fate of the damned, even if only for a short period? Simply parroting the creed or CCC paragraphs doesn't answer this question. does too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, little2add said: does too You really are a troll par excellence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Amppax said: You really are a troll par excellence. so your saying that the the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is bogus ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, little2add said: so your saying that the the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is bogus ? Not necessarily, he might also be saying that it does not answer the question. If I ask Bob his name, and he says "Deus caritas est", and I say, "Stop fooling around and tell me your real name", do I disrespect Scripture? 1 hour ago, Amppax said: Okay, I'll make clear what (I think) Nihil's asking. Do you, little2add, believe that Jesus suffered the fate of the damned, even if only for a short period? Simply parroting the creed or CCC paragraphs doesn't answer this question. This idea, by the way, comes from John Calvin and has for the most part been rejected throughout the history of the Church. Here's a good primer on the topic: http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/09/john-calvins-worst-heresy-that-christ-suffered-in-hell/. Didn't von Balthasar believe it too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, little2add said: so your saying that the the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is bogus ? No, I'm saying that your quote doesn't answer the question being asked. We profess that Christ "descended to Hell" but what does this mean? Does this mean that he was damned and suffered the torments which the damned will suffer for eternity? Or does it mean that Christ descended and freed the souls of the just in the limbo of the Fathers? The section of the Catechism you quoted does not say, but the way you phrased your response to Josh makes it seem as if you believe the former, which is more in line with Calvin and Reformed Protestantism, rather than the latter, the unanimous teaching of the Fathers and most of Church history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 You are reading a lot into it, my friend I said nothing of the kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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