Why Do Faithful Catholics Vote Liberal?

[Sammy Blaze]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jun 29 2004, 04:55 PM'] In the United States of America the Republican Party is against abortion and same-sex marriage, the Democratic Party is for those.

not to mention, again, that I believe the Democratic Party's economic policies are doomed to fail and social justice can best be acheived by small government and big charity, the little guy that makes the most out of his future and helps those in need. don't forget Ironmonk's favorite scripture: 2 Thess 3:10 "if any man will not work, neither let him eat." [/quote]
ouch, I hope you're not making a generalized right wing stereotype of the welfare system and things similar to.

Warning Ranting ahead lol:
President Bush helped the working class so much with his tax breaks, well I think he did, I sure didn't see any tax break, because we didn't make enough money. Maybe my parents are lazy and need to work more and could make more if they wanted to. I mean my mom works 12 hr shifts at a hospital, and my dad a retired Vietnam vet (He knows what its like to be in a war that is fought more politically than strategically) who is now on disability since he was diagnosed with cancer. would like to work but he can't, and since his company "let him go" for missing so much work, (since our local unions were busted in the First Bush era).
I was for the DP when someone once told me, "You know, God loves you just as much as he loves Saddam Hussein..." made me think a little.

Not to mention the young girl i knew my freshman year in college, she had a kid and was on welfare. Her baby's father had died, and she worked, and she went to college to give her daughter the chance to have a better life.

I know alot of people who are poor and barely making it, and they are/were makin' it because of gov't funded programs. The GOP does not do enough to help the lower/middle class of America, the poor and afflicted of our times.
The Dems do not do enough to protect the unborn, so I don't allign myself with them either.
I'm a faithful Catholic so I'll probably vote for neither candidates...

I will say, I'd rather have some of the lower class of America ripping off the system, than some Big business special interests groups like Haliburton fleecing America.


sorry pham, just ventin' a little

Yours in Christ,
~S.

[crusader1234]

I totally agree.

[Chrysologus]

Hananiah, I know that it is not Catholic dogma that the war on Iraq and capital punishment are immoral, but [i]I[/i], along with John Paul II, believe they are! Therefore, if it's true that voting for a candidate means [i]formally cooperating [/i] in all his or her endeavors, then I would be sinning against my conscience by voting for George W. Bush! I frequently hear conservative groups like EWTN and Catholic Answers repeating the fact that the Church's pro-life stance is non-negotiable, as compared to that on capital punishment and war, but that misses the point entirely. If their logic that "voting for a candidate who supports sin = formal cooperation in sin" is true, [i]no one [/i]can morally vote for [i]any [/i]candidate who supports [i]anything [/i]that he or she belives is immoral! If this is the case, then I would say that the system of voting is far too near an occasion of sin to justify participating in at all!

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jun 29 2004, 09:16 PM'] Yes but he has failed to be pro life. He stated that he would not seek to overturn apporaval of RU 486 (sp?). Therefore he is not pro life. Is he pro abort? No. Pro life? No. [/quote]
He can't.

[Iacobus]

You said murder is evil per se. That is the reason for abortion being evil. Yes? What is the DP if the system is flawed? I live in IL. In the past few years we found that around 13 men on death row awaiting excution at the hands of the state were NOT GUILTY of any crime. The police and DA withheld evidince, esp DNA, which lead to them being senticned. So using a flawed system to order people to death will commit acts of murder. Therefore supporting DP does to some extent support murder. And supporting leaders who support the DP is supporting those who condond killing.

[crusader1234]

the DP is only acceptable when nothing else is possible to contain the criminals... the last time i checked, the USA was capable of containing criminals.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jun 30 2004, 12:02 AM'] You said murder is evil per se. That is the reason for abortion being evil. Yes? What is the DP if the system is flawed? I live in IL. In the past few years we found that around 13 men on death row awaiting excution at the hands of the state were NOT GUILTY of any crime. The police and DA withheld evidince, esp DNA, which lead to them being senticned. So using a flawed system to order people to death will commit acts of murder. Therefore supporting DP does to some extent support murder. And supporting leaders who support the DP is supporting those who condond killing. [/quote]
Liberals want more government involvement, and as I will mention in a later post, this allows for more corruption.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Jun 29 2004, 11:53 PM'] He can't. [/quote]
He could dely it. He could ask why we need another OTC abortion pill. He could issue an exuctive order banning it. He could fire the members of teh FDA (like he did to the USGS when they reported the North Slope feilds to be smaller than he thought. Too small to be prohitable.

And I agree 100% with S. Blaze.

[qfnol31]

He can try to do some things like fire employees, but at the same time, Congress has it's claws in the FDA and stuff, and also, he can't just say that it's wrong and stop it. Plus, then he'd be accused of "discriminating." It's complicated, and not how it was set up to be...and that's mainly due to liberals and larger government.

Edited June 30, 2004 by qfnol31

[crusader1234]

I'll never understand why people blindly follow George Bush when the Pope himself has condemned the war among other things.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 30 2004, 01:11 AM'] I'll never understand why people blindly follow George Bush when the Pope himself has condemned the war among other things. [/quote]
I'm not voting for Bush. But one sure as hell can't support that S.O.B. Kerry and still consider oneself a good Catholic.

I'm writing in Buchanan. Or maybe voting Poroutka (sp).

[Iacobus]

[quote]I'll never understand why people blindly follow George Bush when the Pope himself has condemned the war among other things.[/quote]

What I understand less is how Faithful Catholics allow Bush to decide what is just and moral for them and not the pope, the one who is supposed to and does do that.

[BurkeFan]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jun 30 2004, 01:57 PM'] What I understand less is how Faithful Catholics allow Bush to decide what is just and moral for them and not the pope, the one who is supposed to and does do that. [/quote]
Ah, yes, is that how it is for me (or us)? I blindly follow Bush without taking the Pope's words in serious account? Since I support Bush, I therefore ignore the Pope, right?

[Azriel]

this is getting nasty.

and for the record, I'm one of what PedroX called the precious few.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Yeah, play nice y'all or we'll have to close the thread.

[crusader1234]

[quote]I'm not voting for Bush. But one sure as hell can't support that S.O.B. Kerry and still consider oneself a good Catholic.[/quote]

Just to clarify... I don't support Kerry either.

[quote]Since I support Bush, I therefore ignore the Pope, right? [/quote]

I think what Iacobus was getting at is that Bush was gung ho about the war, so then a lot of Catholics got gung ho, even though the Pope was against it.

[Archbishop 10-K]

You may not support either Bush or Kerry. However, using your vote on a third-party candidate is the same as not voting at all. Thus, you must use your vote to keep the greater of the two evils out of office. I can see a general agreement that Kerry is worse than Bush, so we must keep Bush in office so we can keep Kerry out.

[ilovechrist]

[quote name='Archbishop 10-K' date='Jun 30 2004, 08:47 PM'] You may not support either Bush or Kerry. However, using your vote on a third-party candidate is the same as not voting at all. Thus, you must use your vote to keep the greater of the two evils out of office. I can see a general agreement that Kerry is worse than Bush, so we must keep Bush in office so we can keep Kerry out. [/quote]


that sums up what i feel right now perfectly.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Archbishop 10-K' date='Jun 30 2004, 08:47 PM'] You may not support either Bush or Kerry. However, using your vote on a third-party candidate is the same as not voting at all. Thus, you must use your vote to keep the greater of the two evils out of office. I can see a general agreement that Kerry is worse than Bush, so we must keep Bush in office so we can keep Kerry out. [/quote]
I am not required to lower the standard due to the ignorance of millions of other people. I am in no way shape or form required to vote for Bush, nor will I, even if he be the lesser of two evils. That I may vote for Bush I will grant you. That I must is absurd.

For Ice Princess:
I already know the Fr. Mastroeni argument and it doesn't hold water.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Archbishop 10-K' date='Jun 30 2004, 07:47 PM'] You may not support either Bush or Kerry. However, using your vote on a third-party candidate is the same as not voting at all. Thus, you must use your vote to keep the greater of the two evils out of office. I can see a general agreement that Kerry is worse than Bush, so we must keep Bush in office so we can keep Kerry out. [/quote]
To vote for the lesser when there is a no evil is abusrd. That is like like. I am short of words. There are conadates that are pro life but are third party. If people would stop and look and really think they could win. But too many people think like that. Bush or Kerry. Not Bush nor Kerry. If there is a no evil a lesser evil, no matter the fame of the person, is possible.

And about what I said about Catholic, Bush, and the pope. C1234 was pretty close. It seems to me many Catholics steam rolled over the pope and made up excuses like, we will prove it after the war, or the pope doesn't have the intel, etc. That doesn't matter if he has the intel. And the after the war thing is against just war doctrine. So yeh.