Jump to content
Josh

Pope Francis

Recommended Posts

KnightofChrist

What are we to think about the ceremony of the would be fertility idol in the Vatican gardens? A ceremony that matches one of pagan worship. 

H6P39XswlzI

Here is the ceremony. The Vatican press office says this statue is not Mary. But they bow down and venerated it. So who or what are they venerating? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilllabettt

I read Simcha Fischer on the Amazon thing today and my impressions line up with her own: Pope Francis is a sloppy thinker, in the habit of speaking in an official capacity from a place of personal vindictiveness, either naive or indifferent to the damaging effect his behavior has on the Church or individuals. My additions: He has a bad temper, is prone to rash judgment, and speaks without thinking.  I do get convicted from some things he says but is he a "good" Pope? Not at this time, imo. 

That being said. A heretic, he's not. When they did the pagan ceremony, he put aside his prepared remarks, said an "our father" instead, and left. 

It's representative of the burning dumpster fire that is the Church today, that Catholics thought this was a good ritual, and to do it in front of the Pope.  That's the attitude that prevails at the higher levels of the church these days. 

FWIW, I also had a weird, uneasy feeling when he was elected. Didn't know who he was either. But i chalk that up to having a face in there we hadn't seen around in the previous 30+ years, the way John Paul and Benedict were.

Edited by Lilllabettt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cappie

Cardinal Sarah: To oppose the pope is to be outside the church

VATICAN CITY — Guinean Cardinal Robert Sarah, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, said the people who portray him as an opponent of Pope Francis are being used by the devil to help divide the church.

"The truth is that the church is represented on earth by the vicar of Christ, that is by the pope. And whoever is against the pope is, ipso facto, outside the church," the cardinal said in an interview published Oct. 7 in Corriere della Sera, an Italian daily.

The 74-year-old cardinal, who Francis appointed in 2014 as head of the office overseeing liturgical matters, often is portrayed as a critic of Francis, especially because of the cardinal's cautious attitude toward welcoming Muslim migrants to Europe, his concern about the church acting more like a social-service agency than a missionary church and his traditional approach to the liturgy.

The Corriere piece was published to coincide with the release of a new book-length interview with Sarah, "The Day is Now Far Spent." The English edition was released Sept. 22 by Ignatius Press in the United States.

The cardinal's book dedication reads: "For Benedict XVI, peerless architect of the rebuilding of the church. For Francis, faithful and devoted son of St. Ignatius. For the priests throughout the world in thanksgiving on the occasion of my golden jubilee of priesthood," which was July 20.

In the Corriere interview, the cardinal was asked what the "truth" was about his relationship with Francis.

"The truth is that many people write not to give witness to the truth, but to place people against one another, to damage human relationships," he said. "The truth doesn't matter to them."

"Those who place me in opposition to the Holy Father cannot present a single word of mine, a single phrase or a single attitude of mine to support their absurd – and I would say, diabolical – affirmations," Sarah said. "The devil divides, sets people against each other."

Sarah said it is normal for the church to experience difficulties and divisions, but every Christian is called "to seek unity in Christ."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ice_nine

I don't hate him. He has made it more difficult for to be Catholic because of his outright refusal to clarify the various controversial things he has said or has been a party to. I don't handle confusion well. I'm a little neurotic and would prefer more clarity in the realm of my eternal soul and those around me.

I don't think he's a good pope. The church has had (and survived) bad, outright corrupt popes. It's a mess tho. I don't know that anyone can deny that.

This is a bit off-topic, but does anyone have any solid historical sources about the Church "baptizing" elements of various pagan cultures? I know that the early Fathers' treatment of pre-Christian pagan philosophers (plato and aristotle mostly) but also in terms of art and architecture. Not the sloppy CHRISTIANS PLAGIARIZED MYTHRAS crapola, but something a bit more even-handed.

I think the church in times of imperialism did a really poor job of "becoming all things to all people" and this Amazonian Synod might, in part, be a reaction to that, a yanking of the pendulum in the total opposite direction. With that being said I think there is a way to use cultural norms and practices, even those involved in local religions. But to be honest I would need to study more how the church has done that in the past.

Maybe I should start a new thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KnightofChrist
On 10/21/2019 at 8:59 PM, Lilllabettt said:

I read Simcha Fischer on the Amazon thing today and my impressions line up with her own: Pope Francis is a sloppy thinker, in the habit of speaking in an official capacity from a place of personal vindictiveness, either naive or indifferent to the damaging effect his behavior has on the Church or individuals.

 

Words of Francis on the recovery of the idols from the Tiber River.

----

Good afternoon, I would like to say a word about the pachamama (ETD by KoC: Francis actually uses the name of the idol god) statues that were removed from the Church at Traspontina, which were there without idolatrous intentions and were thrown into the Tiber.


First of all, this happened in Rome and, as bishop of the diocese, I ask pardon of the people who were offended by this act.

Then, I can inform you that the statues which created so much media clamor were found in the Tiber. The statues are not damaged.

The Commander of the Carabinieri [Italian police] wished to inform us of the retrieval before the news becomes public. At the moment the news is confidential, and the statues are being kept in the office of the Commander of the Italian Carabinieri.

The leadership of the Carabinieri will be very happy to follow any indication given on the method of making the news public, and regarding the other initiatives desired in its regard, for example, the commander said, “the display of the statues at the closing Mass of the Synod.” We’ll see.

I delegate the Secretary of State to respond to this.

This is good news, thank you.


(Pope's words provided by Matteo Matzuzzi; translation by LifeSite)

Source: https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peace

The verdict is still out but I think he has done reasonably well. It's not like being pope is an easy job nowadays and it ain't like he came into the role when the Church was in a fine state. Quite the opposite as we all know. Yeah I think that sometimes he is not careful enough with his words and his image, especially when he is speaking off the cuff and this has caused unnecessary confusion. He could do a better job here and perhaps he will mature more into the role over time. On the other hand I think that what he has written officially has been a positive contribution, whether people want to start a war over a footnote or not. Some of the hate he gets seems to be because he generally leans more "liberal" than "Trad" (for lack of better terms) and it is frustrating to Trads that their vision of a full on return to the TLM ain't happening any time soon (OK this last part is me being facetious but some of ya'll know it's true for some of you, admit it). So he must stand down and be replaced with Pope Trad the first. You have folks obsessing over his every word and action looking for that "Aha! Gotcha! We have proven that the Pope is a heretic!!" moment. That seems a bit ridiculous to me at times, but there are valid criticisms against this pope and areas that he can improve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peace
On 10/23/2019 at 2:20 PM, Ice_nine said:

This is a bit off-topic, but does anyone have any solid historical sources about the Church "baptizing" elements of various pagan cultures? I know that the early Fathers' treatment of pre-Christian pagan philosophers (plato and aristotle mostly) but also in terms of art and architecture. Not the sloppy CHRISTIANS PLAGIARIZED MYTHRAS crapola, but something a bit more even-handed.

Hmm. What would you mean by baptizing elements of pagan culture? If you mean incorporating pagan cultural elements into Christianity I would guess things like the timing and cultural practices surrounding Christmas might be an example. I think the vestments worn at Mass are generally pagan but somebody please correct me if that is wrong. Wedding rings, etc. I would guess that some things like candles, Gregorian chant, etc. can trace back to pagan cultures as well.

I don't even see why it is a big deal at all honestly. If we are talking about worshiping the Sun God yeah you cant baptize that, but not everything that is "pagan" is necessarily bad. It's not as if the Jews and Early Christians possessed everything that was good in the world, and that everyone else on the planet had nothing but evil.

But yeah I would be interested to know if there are any books on that topic too. The only stuff I have seen are books that are profusely anti-Catholic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh

 

Screenshot_20191026-205914~3.png

Screenshot_20191026-205826~2.png

Screenshot_20191026-205739~2.png

Screenshot_20191026-205757~2.png

12 hours ago, Peace said:

The verdict is still out but I think he has done reasonably well.

I would be a big fan except he really dropped the ball on the sexual abuse stuff. I'm not prepared to make my mind up it was intentional neglect and he actually knew about child sexual abuse and covered it up. Although it's a possibility.

Catholicism and the Catholic Church is the only area in my life I would let these type of things not force me to outright denounce the organization and have it not be part of my life moving forward. I believe Christ's promise the gates of hell won't prevail.

Edited by Josh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



It costs about $850 a year for Phatmass.com to survive–and we barely make it. If you’d like to help keep the Phorum alive, please consider a monthly gift.



×
×
  • Create New...