[jas] Posted August 31, 2003 Posted August 31, 2003 Not one of the ones you hear about the most on my side of the country (well, not as a church, they're one of the biggest social welfare organisations in Australia). Soundy would probably be a better person to answer that question though cause he's involved with a salvo church.
soundguy Posted August 31, 2003 Author Posted August 31, 2003 Salvation Army is a growing chruch. The founder William Booth was one of the most evangelical Christians that I know of! He wa real to the community, he went out onto the streets to preech the gospel. To find out more about them click here
Robyn Posted August 31, 2003 Posted August 31, 2003 Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Most Holy Trinity. Other Pentecostals believe that you are not truly a Christian if you do not speak in tongues. Pentecostals are known to be very puritanical. Many Pentecostals are also very unecumenical. I went to a Pentecostal church one time in Maryland. The whole service was "Glory! Glory!" I am not saying all Pentecostals are like this. These are just my impressions from what limited experience I have of them. Admittedly, it is not very positive. I know only three Pentecostals personally, and I don't really like any of them, but I don't think its because of their beliefs. ok...I've just hacked your quote to shorten it Everything you wrote abt the Pentecostals: I've seen it too.... BUT I DON'T AGREE OR BELIEVE THAT WAY! They're the over-hyped hypocrits who give us a bad name. Just like the Catholic church has members like that. EVERY CHURCH has "Sunday Christians" who rock up on Sunday, go thru the motions and act all holy....then come Monday...and who would guess they ever stepped foot in a church? Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Most Holy Trinity. What are you implying here?
kdewolf2 Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 So, um, what was the point of your post apart from telling us about a bad experience you've had and then making gross sweeping generalisations and somehow arriving at the conclusion that your church is right and everyone else is wrong? (This place is starting to sound like a broken record, can't anyone come up with anything new to say?)Okay, I guess my bad experiences with Pentecostals aren't that interesting. There really was no point in mentioning them. Forgive me. But I did not make "sweeping gross generalizations" and "somehow arrive at the conclusion that my church is right and everyone else is wrong." First, I did not make any generalizations. I just said my impressions of Pentecostals were not positive, but I explicitly said that I didn't presume all Pentecostals were like that. I know there are many Catholics who aren't all that great either. Fr. Geoghan. Case in point. Ted Kennedy. 'Nother case in point. I did not arrive at the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the true Church based on bad experiences with Pentecostals or "sweeping generalizations" which I did not make. After all, that might just prove that the Lutherans are right and everyone else is wrong, or maybe even the Buddhists. I admit that the transition between my account of my bad experiences with Pentecostals and my affirmation of the truth of Catholicism is not altogether clear. I should have left that out. But let me make my point clearer. The Catholic Church alone has the fullness of truth and of the means of salvation. If you want to be saved, you should be Catholic. Obviously, not all Catholics are going to heaven, and not all Pentecostals are going to hell. But indifference puts you in a precarious position vis-a-vis the eternal salvation of your soul. Invincible ignorance, which Catholic theologians tell us make it clear that non-Catholics can be saved, doesn't cover people who know about the Church and its teachings but don't care because of their relativistic attitudes. The Church is the Ark of Salvation. It is called that for a reason. This is not about my church "right" and everyone else's church being "wrong." This is about making it clear to you, and everyone else, that it really does matter whether you are Catholic or not. The Church has repeatedly condemned religious indifferentism and relativism. Not all religions are equal. Everybody here keeps saying the same thing because it is really, really, really, really, really, important and they just want to make sure the point gets acrost. Can anyone come up with anything new to say? A typically Protestant complaint. The Protestant obsession with innovation has spawned a godzillion different churches each with its own theology each presumptuous enough to equate itself with the ONE, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church. QUOTE Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Most Holy Trinity. What are you implying here? I am implying that Oneness Pentecostals are not Christians.
skuba steve Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 sound guy makes a post to say he loves you.... and look what you've done to it.... you've turned it into a "we condemn all you believe in, you're going to hell" post i think you kinda proved his whole point... now you'll most likely bash me for this post and thus the cycle begins again... open you're freakin eyes... we are in a world full of hurting people and all you know how to do is condemn them for being different to you. "But everyone hates us, what a blessing!" Hate never stopped Jesus from loving. He forgave the people that killed him. They were the people he came for. This is what I see in you. I pray that you are not truly representatives of you're church. I pray that they would be embarrassed of you.
Dave Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 Steve, once again you fail to see that we have not been unloving; we're just stating what's true. We haven't condemned anyone, but we HAVE pointed out error when it was necessary to do so. And speaking of loving, was it loving for you to come here and lie about the Catholic Church and then refuse to listen to what we had to say in response? Loving and lying are NOT compatible! Forget about the speck in everyone else's eye, and focus instead on THE LOG IN YOUR OWN EYE!
skuba steve Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 and there's the closed mindedness once again.... they are only lies from your point of view.... you don't correct people reasonably...you just go for the whole "THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE, THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST BELIEVE" approach... see, im not saying that you are wrong, im just saying that there are better ways of going about things... You never consider the the point of view of others... you just expect everyone to be like you otherwise you see them as inferior and let them know about it too... you know what... as far as God's concerned, we are brothers... we are both just as much losers as each other and he loves us regardless... When God looks into our hearts, im exactly the same as you... a sinner who he loves...
[jas] Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 (edited) Do both of you guys want to cool it any time soon, or at least take it to PMs, rather than clogging up three threads with these silly arguments? How about getting some civilised debate, not just name calling? EDIT: PMs meaning private messages, to avoid confusion Edited September 1, 2003 by [jas]
VeraMaria Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 I don't hate pentecostals. That's a fact.
[jas] Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 I don't hate pentecostals. That's a fact. Okay. Thanks It was coming across that a lot of people did, though, in a lot of threads. Which I guess is why this one was started.
VeraMaria Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 ,Aug 31 2003, 09:42 PM] Okay. Thanks It was coming across that a lot of people did, though, in a lot of threads. Which I guess is why this one was started. :)
Joolye Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 I'm not sure that all Pentecostals even qualify to be considered Christians. Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Most Holy Trinity. I would have to draw the line there. Someone who does not believe in the Most Holy Trinity is most definitely not a Christian. If you want to be saved, you should be Catholic. I have read that there are extraordinary means of grace outside the Church, but these are "extra"-ordinary, meaning the exception and not the rule. Believing in Jesus is not enough. Loving Jesus is not enough. One must believe in and love Jesus in the right way, in the Church which He instituted among men for their salvation, the ark of salvation. Edited the above post to address specific points. What is the difference between Oneness Pentecostals and Pentecostals? I've never heard of Oneness Pentecostals. And I've never heard that Pentecostals don't believe in the Trinity before. The Bible says about being saved, in Romans 10:9-10 "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your that you believe and are justified and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." and in verse 13, "for, 'Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
cmotherofpirl Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 Edited the above post to address specific points. What is the difference between Oneness Pentecostals and Pentecostals? I've never heard of Oneness Pentecostals. And I've never heard that Pentecostals don't believe in the Trinity before. The Bible says about being saved, in Romans 10:9-10 "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your that you believe and are justified and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." and in verse 13, "for, 'Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Jesus also says you must be baptised, it is your entrance into the kingdom. Paul says Baptism replaces circumcision which was done on the eigth day. So saying words aren't enough. THe New Testament is a coherent whole, not bits and pieces. It was put together by theChurch with that in mind.
cmotherofpirl Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 Steve and Sound Guy, I have just read the whole thread again. WE have disagreed with you, and pointed out errors in what you have been taught about the Church. But nobody was called you names, insulted you, or derided you. Nobody has been mean to you in anyway or personally attacked you.
[jas] Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 Jesus also says you must be baptised, it is your entrance into the kingdom. Paul says Baptism replaces circumcision which was done on the eigth day. WHERE?????
dUSt Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 Does nobody want to answer any of the questions I had? Geesh, you accuse me of hating Pentacostals--you can at least try to answer some of the questions I had on page 1. God bless.
kdewolf2 Posted September 1, 2003 Posted September 1, 2003 What is the difference between Oneness Pentecostals and Pentecostals? I've never heard of Oneness Pentecostals. And I've never heard that Pentecostals don't believe in the Trinity before.I've read about Oneness Pentecostals before and I even met a couple of them. They differ from other Pentecostals because they don't believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are really distinct persons, but simply three different ways in which God relates to us at different times. It's kind of a rehash of Sabellianism. I think most Pentecostals are probably trinitarian. Here is a short article about them: Oneness Pentecostals In response to the accusations of hatred. Much earlier in this thread, soundguy said the following: I came here to learn about Catholicism, not to be tought about the faults in my own religion. Okay, then. One of the things you should definitely learn about Catholicism is that Catholicism makes an exclusive truth claim. The Church does not regard itself as being one church among many churches, which are each legitimate and valid. The Church regards itself as being the one true Church, the Church founded by Jesus Christ, whereas all the others are essentially man-made institutions. The Church regards itself as offering the fullness of the truth, and the fullness of the means of salvation, and as being the only Church which does so. The other churches may have "elements" of truth and sanctification, but not the whole truth. Furthermore, although non-Catholics can be saved, ideally all Christians should seek salvation in the Catholic Church. Catholic theologians say that non-Catholics, such as Pentecostals, who really do not know of the Church's teachings and its not their fault, may be saved. But those who do know of the Church's teachings and remain indifferent because of their relativistic attitude are putting themselves in a precarious position. I say "precarious" because I can't be sure that you will be damned. But I would definitely consider it dangerous. If you really want to learn about Catholicism, you have to learn that it is the one true Faith, whether you want to hear it or not, and that you cannot remain indifferent toward it. It would be supremely uncharitable if Catholics, on a Catholic forum, addressing non-Catholics, did not make this point clear. I feel compelled, as a Catholic (though not exactly a perfect saint) to re-iterate this point again and again and again and again until it sinks in or at least until everybody takes it seriously enough to examine it critically. I think I have an obligation to make this point precisely because of love. I couldn't just let you go on merry way to hell without saying anything about it. I'm sorry if you've been offended by posts on this forum. I apologize for my own pointless, let's say, b*tchin about Pentecostals earlier in this thread. But Catholics cannot really share in your relativistic attitude. The more you insist on it, the more they have to keeping making their point about the one Faith, the one Church. I know I have a tendency to run on and on and on and it must be really monotonous, so I guess I'm done now. "There is no truth without love, and no love without truth" --Photius Coutsoukis
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