In this time of Pandemic

[Jaime]

5 minutes ago, kujonicus said:

You were a public school teacher, which means you aren’t one currently, which also means you aren’t in a position to speak on behalf of those of us who are actually in the position of having to teach this year. 
 

As to your thoughts on students and parents having to work harder, tough. We’re all in it. In-person, online, blended, mobile, flex—it’s all brand new, and it’s all extemporaneous. I haven’t seen my 75 year old father, who lives less than 2 miles away from me, since August because I’m exposed every day and he’s immunocompromised. Other teachers are in the same position, or worse. An older teacher in my school district just died (of COVID) after her principal denied her requests to teach virtually to begin the school year.

And you can target my grammar when you clean up that sentence fragment at the end of your post, mmmk?

I'm targeting your inability to quote me properly and my inability to not hit the return key with my fat thumb before I'm done.

So I reject the "you're not currently a teacher so you can't have an opinion" argument.  Mostly because it's stupid.  I'm not speaking on behalf of teachers.(and btw you don't get to speak on behalf of all teachers either) I'm speaking about my own thoughts on this. And my thoughts are based on the evidence that has been gathered.  If students aren't at grave risk, they should be taught in school.  The average age of school teachers is 42 which also puts them in the not at grave risk category.  

If teachers are immunocompromised or older than 50, why can't they teach from home while paras maintain classes?  

There are studies that show this type of learning exacerbates achievement gaps.  That it disproportionally affects students living in poor areas and the effects could be irreversible.  

 

If that is all true, is your response still "tough"?

[picchick]

On 11/23/2020 at 10:21 AM, elizabeth09 said:

I think so, because homeschooling is better for the child.

Not in all circumstances.  I know a few families that homeschooling was not better for the children.  

 

I think that teachers can be considered essential.  I think that children need to be educated and not all parents are equipped to educate like a teacher is.  The problem I see right now is that not all children can learn virtually.  My nephew is one of those kids.  He does not grasp a concept as well as he would if he were at school.  It is partially the environment and partially the way school had to throw together a virtual learning resource.

[Jaime]

4 hours ago, kujonicus said:

Doctors also get paid quite a bit more than teachers, and also chose to make a career in the medical and public health sector. 

Teachers get paid quite a bit more than the taco (so tasty) bell worker. Teachers also chose to work in the public sector.  Neither of these points have any relevance whatsoever to the question at hand btw.

[picchick]

On 11/22/2020 at 12:15 PM, Hna.Caridad said:

Essential workers or sacrificial workers?

Why would they be sacrificial?

On 11/22/2020 at 5:30 PM, elizabeth09 said:

Define essential workers

"According to the U..S Department of Homeland Security, essential workers are those who conduct a range of operations and services that are typically essential to continue critical infrastructure operations"

I think it is workers that are needed to keep society running on a basic level.  Think about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

[Didacus]

On 11/24/2020 at 10:15 AM, kujonicus said:

Doctors also get paid quite a bit more than teachers, and also chose to make a career in the medical and public health sector. 

The challenge and effort in becoming a doctor is more so than becomong a teacher as well.

Don't teachers choose to work in public as well?  Although not medical...

[elizabeth09]

I think it is up to the school district to make the call.  If I was one of the people, I might have school online. 

[fides' Jack]

On 11/22/2020 at 4:30 PM, elizabeth09 said:

Define essential workers

Every living person.

On 11/24/2020 at 5:09 AM, kujonicus said:

That dude at taco (so tasty) (so tasty) (so tasty) Bell is gonna make minimum wage, which unless you live in a blue state, is probably barely enough to pay his cell phone bill at the end of the month.

And if you do live in a blue state, the cost of living is so enormously high that the increased "minimum wage" doesn't do a beaver dam thing to help you.

22 hours ago, picchick said:

Not in all circumstances.  I know a few families that homeschooling was not better for the children.  

I could see private schooling can be better for some children.  But public school is worse for all children, 100% of the time.  And, imo, unless there's extreme necessity, sending your kids to public school now constitutes grave matter.

23 hours ago, kujonicus said:

An older teacher in my school district just died (of COVID) after her principal denied her requests to teach virtually to begin the school year.

I no longer believe stories like this.  What other comorbidities did this teacher have?  Did she have terminal cancer at the same time, or something similar?  If so, she didn't die of the wuhan virus, and it's morally corrupt for the CDC to claim that she did.  No other condition has ever been counted the way the wuhan virus has, in terms of numbers of deaths.

[fides' Jack]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:49 AM, Jaime said:

That would be great! I know several families that are homeschooling and it's worked out.  But in real life, very few families have the financial means or the proper skill sets to homeschool.  

As is the case with every single skill, there's only one way to learn.

[picchick]

8 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

As is the case with every single skill, there's only one way to learn.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

8 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

Every living person.

 

Can you explain how you mean every living person is an essential worker?

[Jaime]

I have a nine year old ukulele student who is quite talented and totally adorable

 

 

not an essential worker.  Doesn’t even have a job!

[fides' Jack]

11 hours ago, picchick said:

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Can you explain how you mean every living person is an essential worker?

There's only one way to learn to get good at something, and that's by practice, practice, and more practice.

Every living person, except those who should be incarcerated, should have the right to work without being denied that right by the government.  Nobody should be forced to hire them, either, but every single job in society contributes to it.  Take away one industry and it hurts the entire economy.  The only industries that the government should have the ability to stop are those that are immoral, such as pornography or sex trades, or something like that.

[little2add]

The Supreme Court said Wednesday night that NY state restrictions  during the coronavirus pandemic are a violation of the First Amendment’s protection of free religious exercise. After the ruling the Bishop of Brooklyn, whose diocese was a plaintiff in the suit, said that religious worship should be considered an essential during the coronavirus pandemic.

religious worship is essential 

[elizabeth09]

On 11/26/2020 at 4:49 PM, little2add said:

The Supreme Court said Wednesday night that NY state restrictions  during the coronavirus pandemic are a violation of the First Amendment’s protection of free religious exercise. After the ruling the Bishop of Brooklyn, whose diocese was a plaintiff in the suit, said that religious worship should be considered an essential during the coronavirus pandemic.

religious worship is essential 

I agree.

Is going to school essential for kids right now?  I think not.  I think that school should be at home, and online, till the vaccine really works.

[Jaime]

3 hours ago, elizabeth09 said:

I agree.

Is going to school essential for kids right now?  I think not.  I think that school should be at home, and online, till the vaccine really works.

So the taco (so tasty) bell worker and the grocery bagger are essential for our society, but schools are not?  I have a problem with that logic

[elizabeth09]

Schools are importing.  If one person test positive, then it will have be online.  I am thinking of all the grandparents that are living with the school age children that are bring this home.  Is it better for the school age to be online, or going to school where this can spread easily?

On 11/27/2020 at 10:15 PM, Jaime said:

So the taco (so tasty) (so tasty) bell worker and the grocery bagger are essential for our society, but schools are not?  I have a problem with that logic

 

[Jaime]

4 minutes ago, elizabeth09 said:

Schools are importing.  If one person test positive, then it will have be online.  I am thinking of all the grandparents that are living with the school age children that are bring this home.  Is it better for the school age to be online, or going to school where this can spread easily?

 

that is a fair point.  I didn't realize until I researched it that 10% of school age children have grandparents in the house.  That's a lot higher than I thought it would be.  But I don't think it has to be an either or situation either.  90% could attend school while the rest do it online.  I think that would mitigate the damage being done to students (at least a bit)

[elizabeth09]

9 minutes ago, Jaime said:

that is a fair point.  I didn't realize until I researched it that 10% of school age children have grandparents in the house.  That's a lot higher than I thought it would be.  But I don't think it has to be an either or situation either.  90% could attend school while the rest do it online.  I think that would mitigate the damage being done to students (at least a bit)

Or if you living with a person that is high risk.  There is no perfect answer to this all.

[cruciatacara]

You know, you guys, that nothing has to be forever but delaying social contact of any kind can shorten the amount of time that the virus is with us really badly.

I live in Australia where different states have had different degrees of lockdown depending on the number of COVID cases in them. In Victoria here we had a pretty stingent lockdown for weeks-months. We all pulled together to make it happen. And now there haven't been any new cases or deaths in over a month (ZERO) and things are slowly getting back to 'normal' again in this state. In fact, the border between states has been lifted in many cases (some states didn't want to get infected by other states) so now we can travel between states again. We still wear masks near each other, although they are now not required when outside and some of still try to social distance and use hand sanitiser etc, but that is because of caution, not legal requirements. I really don't understand why it should be so hard for Americans to understand that a little pain now leads to a quicker return to normal and less deaths. 

So young kids seem to be pretty much safe from the virus, but the teachers can be older, and all of the relatives at home can be older, so it just seems to make sense to let the kids endure a little more time learning remotely where cases are highest. Kids are resilient - they will survive this - but the attitude of the adults is what will help them most. Make it into a big deal and it will be a big deal for them, but let them know they are helping to protect the lives of others who are more vulnerable, and they will feel like super-heroes! Saving grandma and grandpa and teacher! Anyway, hopefully the vaccine will help us all soon.

[elizabeth09]

Point taken.  I wish that we could do what you are doing.  

[cruciatacara]

Just think of it as 'home schooling' and that should make things seem a little better? LOL