What Makes Music Sacred?

[flip]

well, what makes music sacred? what signifies "proper" music to worship to in the presence of God?








and please, Catholic Crusader, please don't reply to this post. i know exactly what you think. you hate modern music. ok. next, please...

[RandomProddy]

Music is in the ear of the listener, much in a similar vein to beauty being in the eye of the beholder...

[dUSt]

I would have to say that whatever the Church defines as such.

It really depends on how you're defining the word sacred.

[picchick]

I think in general, music is sacred if it is speaking with reverence to God, praying to God or a prayer itself. However, it could be different things to different people. To me sacred music is the classical kind. I can see how some people can take praise and worship music like "Come into my heart" and "Nearer than Before" songs and call them sacred. I would not consider songs that speak of virtues or good clean stuff to be sacred music. I think it would have to refer in some way to God.

[qfnol31]

I know that St. Augustine used to say that when we sing we pray twice. I would personally say that sacred music is that which is pleasing to God and reverent. It would have to be something that is true and from the heart, plus it would also have to be a prayer to God. Now much of music is this way, but as I said, I believe it should also promote reverence. Gregorian Chants do all of these things. It's reverent, Theologically sound, comes from the heart, and especially in the Mass complements it and helps people to truly enter into that which they are partaking. To top all of this off, Gregorian Chants are a true example of love.

One of the greatest things about the chants, as I have said repeatedly, they promote reverence. When we pray, normally it's not loud, but in a sense of humility. If we don't, then we probably need to rethink how we're approaching God, at least in the most holy Mass. Gregorian Chants are incredible examples of praying quietly and teaching humility. They are simple and not gaudy, and are true examples of prayer as taught by St. Thérèse. Rock music can be good, and even pleasing to God, but it makes the Mass less reverent in that it takes away from the sacrifice and puts focus on the music. Gregorian Chants (for me) do the exact opposite. They bring us deeper into the Mass and help us focus less on the music.

And this is what I consider sacred music.

[flip]

i guess i define Sacred as anything that can be used in the presence, to praise, and to worship God...


anyone agree?

[flip]

I feel you on the reverence thing. I totally understand. Can rock music be reverent? can dance be reverent? can hip hop be reverent?

are we allowed to be joyous in front of Christ and at the same time revere Him?

[Mary's Knight, La]

you asked 2 questions though they're related

1 what makes music sacred - by definition that it is set apart for God, i would argue that to a degree this must apply to the style of music and not just the individual song as in I have an excellent hip hop cd that contains nothing but reverberating messages of God's love and thanks to all the PM artists for that but, I would have a problem calling that sacred because hip hop as a style is not reserved for God though now I have opened up debate on what constitutes a musical style

2 what signifies "proper" music to worship in the presence of God? hmmm in a nutshell the ability of those hearing the music to properly dispose themselves to receiving the Love and Word (yeah it's redundant) of God. depending on who are present the music used in a lifeteen Mass might not be appropriate because there could be some there who would be hindered in receiving from God.

now to hijack this thread sorta does what I said above apply to Gregorian Chant. personally I dont think so, i'm of the opinion that if gregorian chant doesn't bring you closer to God then you're not properly disposed in the first place.

[picchick]

Sacred-
Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity.
Worthy of religious veneration: "the sacred teachings of the Buddha."
Made or declared holy: "sacred bread and wine."
Dedicated or devoted exclusively to a single use, purpose, or person: "sacred to the memory of her sister;"
a private office "sacred to the President."
Worthy of respect; venerable.
Of or relating to religious objects, rites, or practices.
[url="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sacred"]http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sacred[/url]


Throw out question: So if music follows these guidelines would it be considered sacred?

I think that it would be.
If music is set apart for the worship of a deity, in this case God, then it is sacred. I do agree with some of the "posters" though. If it doesn't bring you closer to God is only there for personal entertainment.

For me, the Gregorian Chant is sacred music. Although it makes me think of monks chanting and stuff, it reminds me of God and heavenly, holy things.

[picchick]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 10 2004, 03:01 AM'] I feel you on the reverence thing. I totally understand. Can rock music be reverent? can dance be reverent? can hip hop be reverent?

[/quote]
A priest from my diocese gave a mission at my church. He was talking about silence in prayer. He made a comment that at a youth retreat, the youth listened to Christian Rock music during an adoration. Many older people may think that this is respectful, he mentioned. However, if it will help bring them closer to God, why not let them? Soon they will be drawn into silence and not need the Rock music.

[Christina]

I think it's simple... anything that glorifies God. Even classical music sometimes gives you the feeling of being taken up into heaven. Whenever you listen to music and it reminds you of God, prayer and worship... that's God glorifying to me.

I only listen to Christian music, I can't take secular music.

Edited July 10, 2004 by Christina

[littleflower+JMJ]

music that trys to be entertaining takes away from the Mass.

what makes sacred music such is what the Church defines as such.

if you happen to find traditional hymns lacking entertainment, thats the way its suppose to be.

its suppose to be a [b]suppliment[/b] for meditation for [b]all[/b] of those present

anything else has no place in mass.


Pax.

[Apotheoun]

In the Byzantine Catholic Church we don't sing "hymns" during the Divine Liturgy; instead, we sing the entire Divine Liturgy.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 11 2004, 12:51 AM'] In the Byzantine Catholic Church we don't sing "hymns" during the Divine Liturgy; instead, we sing the entire Divine Liturgy. [/quote]
I love your liturgies too!

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Jul 10 2004, 01:34 AM'] Rock music can be good, and even pleasing to God, but it makes the Mass less reverent in that it takes away from the sacrifice and puts focus on the music.  Gregorian Chants (for me) do the exact opposite.  They bring us deeper into the Mass and help us focus less on the music.

[/quote]
I totally agree. Contemporary Christian music does indeed take away from the splendor of the Holy Mass. Lifeteen, an organization for Catholic youth, was established for the sole purpose of satisfying teenage Catholics who desire contemporary music in the Mass. I have a problem with that, because the Mass revolves around the Eucharist- not music. The Holy Mass is soley to serve and praise God, not to satisfy our own ears.

Edited July 12, 2004 by conservativecatholic

[ladybug]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 9 2004, 03:59 PM'] well, what makes music sacred? what signifies "proper" music to worship to in the presence of God?








and please, Catholic Crusader, please don't reply to this post. i know exactly what you think. you hate modern music. ok. next, please... [/quote]
Sacred is something that is set aside to glorify God.

Therefore all music can be sacred depending on the intent.

Jesus did not condemn people for bringing gifts of Frankencense Gold and Myrr to Him in the manger.

...and if the drummer boy story were actually true, I doubt Jesus would tell the Little Drummer Boy that his gift is distracting the others from reverencing him.

OK, everyone now....join me in praise!!!!

Come, they told me (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
A newborn king to see (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
Our finest gifts we bring (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
To lay before the king (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
So, to honor Him (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
When we come

Little baby (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
I am a poor boy too (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
I have no gifts to bring (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
That's fit to give a king (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
Shall I play for you (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
On my drum?

Mary nodded (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
The ox and lamb kept time (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
I played my drum for Him (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
I played my best for Him (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
Then, He smiled at me (pa-rum-pa-pum-pum)
Me and my drum

Edited July 12, 2004 by ladybug

[ladybug]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 10 2004, 02:48 AM'] i guess i define Sacred as anything that can be used in the presence, to praise, and to worship God...


anyone agree? [/quote]
I think all people's want to come bring their gifts and lay them before the manger...and some have frankenscence gold and myrr, and these things are fine, cultured, and beautiful....but the poor also want to lay their gifts at the manger, and it seems to me that no one likes the little drummer boys of the world except for Jesus. No one thinks the little drummer boys gift is fit to give a king.

The drummer boys are not doing it to entertain the people.....they want to take the gift God gave them, and return it to him. Even if that gift is a humble little drum played by a little boy with no shoes on his feet.

[catholicguy]

Apotheoun, the Solemn Mass of the Latin Rite (at least the Traditional Latin Mass) is also sung (which I am sure you know). I do not know much about the music of the Eastern Rites. There are essentially no hymns sung at a Solemn Mass except the Recessional, Communion, or Offertory (all of which can be done and none of which are obligatory). These times during the Mass do not lend themselves toward the singing of the Liturgy (e.g., singing the Lavabo would be awkward at best), so hymns are sung at these times in order that there might be a prayerful atmosphere which is highlighted by truly Sacred music, Gregorian Chant. Obviously there is nothing to be sung in the Liturgy during the distribution of Holy Communion nor is there anything in the Liturgy itself to be sung during the recessional (there can also be a Processional hymn, but the Introit of the Mass is sung at a Mass which does not have the Asperges or Vidi Aquam, i.e., the main Sunday Mass). Is something similar to this also done in the Byzantine Rite? Also, regarding the topic of Sacred music, Gregorian Chant is the only music which we can say is necessarily sacred since it is the only music officially sanctioned by the Church. Beyond this, we know that a piano has been forbidden to be used in a church (Pope Pius X), so it would be logical to think that such an instrument would not be sacred. The organ is the only instrument officially sanctioned as far as instruments go. If you would like Encyclicals with this information, I would be glad to provide them.

[catholicguy]

bump

[picchick]

I have just asked this question with a priest on the EWTN website. I'll get back to you on it in a few days or less

God Bless,
meg