cure for the pandemic

[little2add]

38 minutes ago, Peace said:

Sure, but that's not much consolation for the people who are infected by the virus and die from it

No it’s not, but if you’ve been vaccinated, I would not get the booster.  But that’s just me.  
Supposedly if you’ve been vaccinated and contract the virus it results in mild flu symptoms lasting only a few days

naturally 

[fides' Jack]

4 hours ago, Peace said:

Sure, but that's not much consolation for the people who are infected by the virus and die from it.

You mean those people who, on average, have at least 3 co-morbidities?

6 hours ago, ReasonableFaith said:

Huh?  

Johnson & Johnson:

https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-announces-that-janssens-covid-19-investigational-vaccine-candidate-prevents-severe-clinical-disease-in-pre-clinical-studies

Pfizer:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-data-preclinical-studies-mrna
 

Moderna:

https://www.biospace.com/article/in-challenge-studies-with-monkeys-moderna-s-vaccine-protected-against-covid-19/

Yes, I realize that they claim to have done some animal testing after they already started human tests.

[Peace]

3 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

You mean those people who, on average, have at least 3 co-morbidities?

Yes, I realize that they claim to have done some animal testing after they already started human tests.

OK well let me rephrase my original statement:

Sure, but that's not much consolation for the people who are infected by the virus and die from it (excluding people having co-morbidities since their lives apparently don't matter to some people).

[fides' Jack]

43 minutes ago, Peace said:

OK well let me rephrase my original statement:

Sure, but that's not much consolation for the people who are infected by the virus and die from it (excluding people having co-morbidities since their lives apparently don't matter to some people).

Their lives absolutely matter to me.  That's why I desire that the truth be told.  If they died of cancer, or from a car accident, it is dishonorable and disrespectful to them to say they died of covid.

If you do exclude those with, say, 2 or more co-morbidities, then covid-19 becomes one of the least deadly viruses that we know about.  Certainly less deadly than a common cold.

[Peace]

1 minute ago, fides' Jack said:

Their lives absolutely matter to me.  That's why I desire that the truth be told.  If they died of cancer, or from a car accident, it is dishonorable and disrespectful to them to say they died of covid.

I agree, but your problem is that they did not die from cancer or a car accident.

What does the word "co" in "co-morbidity" mean friend? It means that COVID was one of the factors that caused the person's death, along with the other factors (cancer, obesity, etc.)

You are trying to make the situation seem as if COVID had nothing to do with these deaths at all.

1 minute ago, fides' Jack said:

If you do exclude those with, say, 2 or more co-morbidities, then covid-19 becomes one of the least deadly viruses that we know about.  Certainly less deadly than a common cold.

Oh please man, now you are saying that Covid is less lethal than the common cold? Have you been getting your talking points from Trump rallies?

I can't even take this discussion seriously anymore when you write stuff like that.

[fides' Jack]

Just now, Peace said:

I agree, but your problem is that they did not die from cancer or a car accident.

Actually, some did die in car accidents, and their deaths were attributed to covid.  That's not fake news.  Their numbers are part of the 650,000.

1 minute ago, Peace said:

What does the word "co" in "co-morbidity" mean friend? It means that COVID was one of the factors that caused the person's death, along with the other factors (cancer, obesity, etc.)

You are trying to make the situation seem as if COVID had nothing to do with these deaths at all.

There have always been rules regarding how they count the primary cause of death.  And they changed that rule for covid.  They came out and said they changed that rule for covid early on in 2020 (April timeframe), in that anyone diagnosed with covid within a certain timeframe before they died would be listed as a covid death.  And that makes the official number absolutely meaningless.

Not to mention the problem with the covid tests, themselves...  sigh.

4 minutes ago, Peace said:

Oh please man, now you are saying that Covid is less lethal than the common cold? Have you been getting your talking points from Trump rallies?

You know, I overstated my case, I'll be honest.  But the general sense of what I was trying to convey stands.

A year ago they did a study and found that they could only claim death was directly due to covid in 6% of covid-attributed deaths.  Back in June (or July?) they did the same study with the latest numbers and found it was down to 5%.  Even with the official numbers there aren't many deaths - for most of the population it's a little higher than seasonal flu deaths.  For much of the population it's around or a little lower than seasonal flu deaths.  

If the number is exaggerated 20 times (not saying it is), it's much, much lower than the flu.  Not as low as the common cold - sorry for misspeaking on that.

My point is that since they changed the rules, we can't know for sure.  The real number is somewhere between 0 and 650,000 in the US.  They shouldn't have changed the rules.

[ReasonableFaith]

On 8/28/2021 at 5:48 PM, fides' Jack said:

Actually, some did die in car accidents, and their deaths were attributed to covid.  That's not fake news.  Their numbers are part of the 650,000.

How many?  Where are the ‘not fake news’ accounts?  Are the names, dates of death, or obituaries available for these persons who died in a car totally unrelated to COVID-19?

It seems quite possible some would die from COVID-19 after sustaining injuries in a car accident. Maybe somebody had COVID, was driving themselves to the hospital, and died in a car wreck because of it?  But this seems far less probable…

[fides' Jack]

On 8/30/2021 at 12:53 PM, ReasonableFaith said:

How many?  Where are the ‘not fake news’ accounts?

We'll never know.  Those accounts are always censored.

[Mercedes]

3 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

We'll never know.  Those accounts are always censored.

Censored by who?  The conservative outlets must have surely launched an investigation about this censorship?

[ReasonableFaith]

11 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

We'll never know.  Those accounts are always censored.

So a claim made without any actual evidence and an assertion the ‘evidence’ likely exists, but you couldn’t possibly share such ‘evidence’ because it is super secret?

It seems more reasonable to proceed as if deaths from automobile accidents were not included among the COVID-19 death count. No?

[fides' Jack]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:52 AM, ReasonableFaith said:

So a claim made without any actual evidence and an assertion the ‘evidence’ likely exists, but you couldn’t possibly share such ‘evidence’ because it is super secret?

It seems more reasonable to proceed as if deaths from automobile accidents were not included among the COVID-19 death count. No?

We'll never know the number, which is what you asked.  We have evidence of a bunch of them.

On 8/31/2021 at 11:14 PM, Mercedes said:

Censored by who?  The conservative outlets must have surely launched an investigation about this censorship?

Conservative outlets are being shut down left and right.

[ReasonableFaith]

28 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

On 9/1/2021 at 7:52 AM, ReasonableFaith said:

We'll never know the number, which is what you asked.  We have evidence of a bunch of them.

Nice attempt at misdirection.  Yes, how many was asked…as well as evidence of the accounts, names, dates and obituaries. These are very straight forward pieces of information. Proceed…
 

[little2add]

Meanwhile 

Israel is set to begin preparations to administer fourth doses of the coronavirus vaccine 

Edited September 6, 2021 by little2add

[fides' Jack]

On 9/4/2021 at 9:35 PM, ReasonableFaith said:

Nice attempt at misdirection.  Yes, how many was asked…as well as evidence of the accounts, names, dates and obituaries. These are very straight forward pieces of information. Proceed…
 

I'm not trying to misdirect, though you seem to be...  I was answering the specific question as to number.

I have no idea, and I have no desire or intention to provide evidence.  All the proof in the world could be staring at you in the face and you would still ignore it.  Your faith in the pseudo-science called "science" is completely unreasonable.

[ReasonableFaith]

1 hour ago, fides' Jack said:

I have no idea, and I have no desire or intention to provide evidence.  All the proof in the world could be staring at you in the face and you would still ignore it.  Your faith in the pseudo-science called "science" is completely unreasonable.

Of course folks have no ‘desire or intention’ to provide ‘evidence’ of these claims. It’s because they don’t have any actual evidence. It’s been a long long game of just making things up, distorting data, and promoting quackery. 
 

To judge how folks react to being presented evidence it can be helpful to actually present evidence first. 
 

Its a neat technique to call science pseudo-science and pseudo-science science.  Some have fallen for it; largely as a means to support radical ideologies. 

[fides' Jack]

15 hours ago, ReasonableFaith said:

Of course folks have no ‘desire or intention’ to provide ‘evidence’ of these claims. It’s because they don’t have any actual evidence. It’s been a long long game of just making things up, distorting data, and promoting quackery. 
 

To judge how folks react to being presented evidence it can be helpful to actually present evidence first. 
 

Its a neat technique to call science pseudo-science and pseudo-science science.  Some have fallen for it; largely as a means to support radical ideologies. 

I have presented evidence.  You have dismissed evidence as quackery through ad hominems.  As I said, I'm done trying to provide evidence.  The evidence is there if you ignore the mainstream media.  You will find it if you actually want to see it.  But you have closed yourself off to the truth, so there is nothing that I can do to convince you.

[Didacus]

Historically, the most proven cure for diseases is death.

 

Back to you Bob.

[Winchester]

On 9/5/2021 at 8:29 PM, little2add said:

Meanwhile 

Israel is set to begin preparations to administer fourth doses of the coronavirus vaccine 

This makes the thing seem ad hoc.

The principle behind MRNA and adenovirus vaccines is exciting, but I'm not sure it will work the way they were hoping against a rapidly mutating coronavirus.

 

I'm also not sure of the wisdom of rapidly repeating introduction of these vaccines to the body. There does seem to be an increased period of vulnerability 15 days after the second dose. But it also looks like we can't argue against the reduced risk for higher risk groups. My objection is in treating the entire population as if it had the same risks.

[little2add]

On 8/28/2021 at 12:36 PM, little2add said:

Natural immunity provides 13 times more protection against Delta than Pfizer's vaccine does, according to a Large Israeli study.  

LINK:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

 

the above makes more sense

3 hours ago, Winchester said:

'm also not sure of the wisdom of rapidly repeating introduction of these vaccines to the body.

i agree

[fides' Jack]

On 8/28/2021 at 10:36 AM, little2add said:

Natural immunity provides 13 times more protection against Delta than Pfizer's vaccine does, according to a Large Israeli study.  

LINK:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

 

There was another study I just read a day or two ago saying that it's actually higher than that.  Something like 20 times more effective against these "variants".

On 9/7/2021 at 5:25 PM, ReasonableFaith said:

Some have fallen for it; largely as a means to support radical ideologies. 

Radical ideologies such as mandated gene therapy?