“We are at war.”

[little2add]

 

On 10/17/2023 at 9:53 AM, Didacus said:

walls don't work

 

[Machine_Washable]

On 10/17/2023 at 12:54 PM, Anomaly said:

Just a thought.  
 

How can Hamas’ behavior be defended and Israel blamed when both Egypt and Jordan refuse to accept Palestinian refugees because of their (Hamas’) behavior?

hmmmm

Egypt is controlled by the dictator Sisi after the democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood were slaughtered in a coup about a decade ago. I find it odd westerns use Egypt’s behavior against Muslims when you support and arm the military dictator who came to power by force and oppresses his own people. Jordan is a client state of Israel and has been for a long time. 

On 10/19/2023 at 3:03 PM, Didacus said:

To my knowledge none of the multiple muslim majority nations have stepped forward to volunteer in taking refugees from Palestine...

Isn't that a little strange?

It’s not strange. Palestinians have iman and all of these dictators are trying to secularize their countries. 

On 10/20/2023 at 8:35 AM, Didacus said:

Have you seen the protests in England, France and USA in favour of Hamas?

I would caution against bringing more of these 'sympathizers'...

These have been peaceful protests. Why is supporting Israel a litmus test? Israel is not a pro-Christian state. Despite what false impressions they might give. They just destroyed an ancient Church and Palestinian Christians. 

[Machine_Washable]

Hamas does not have a right to target civilians. This is against the sharia. If Israel said it was going to hunt down those guilty, most Muslims would understand and believe Hamas had it coming as they, or groups working with them, had transgressed the limits. 
 

Instead, Israel talks a big game about how they’re going to smash Gaza. This after making the people of Gaza live like animals for decades. They have united the ummah against them and rekindled our anger for their decades of crimes and humiliations. This has made it much harder for Saudi Arabia and the other gulf states to ally with them because the people are so angry.

Their air power isn’t enough. If they’re serious they’ll have to go into those 300 miles of tunnels. This hasn’t gone well in the past. Their last incursions into Gaza and Lebanon did not go well. So we will see how bold they truly are soon enough.

[little2add]

13 hours ago, Machine_Washable said:

300 miles of tunnels

are they tunnels or (nuclear) bomb shelters or graves?

Israeli law requires all homes, residential buildings, and industrial building to have bomb shelters. 

 

 

[Didacus]

On 10/21/2023 at 4:25 PM, Machine_Washable said:

[snip]

These have been peaceful protests. Why is supporting Israel a litmus test? Israel is not a pro-Christian state. Despite what false impressions they might give. They just destroyed an ancient Church and Palestinian Christians. 

Mohamadeens have not been very nice to Christians either.

One or the other - not my fight, not my monkeys.  I am not picking a side on this one.

[little2add]

Déjà vu
 

 

[Machine_Washable]

On 10/22/2023 at 6:42 AM, little2add said:

are they tunnels or (nuclear) bomb shelters or graves?

Israeli law requires all homes, residential buildings, and industrial building to have bomb shelters. 

 

 

As far as I know the tunnels are made and maintained by Hamas for smuggling, moving without being detected, and for fighting. Israel is a powerful country with a powerful army that is well supplied and advanced. Gaza is a small enclosure. You cannot fight Israel on the street. They’ll just level everything. As they are doing now. The only leverage is the tunnels because Israel knows that would be brutal and costly fighting. They won’t have as much of a technological advantage. They can’t just use their air power and artillery. That’s why people are warning them about their big talk. They can level every building in Gaza but they’ll still have to back it up by clearing 300 miles of tunnels which will cost them dearly. 

On 10/23/2023 at 9:49 AM, Didacus said:

Mohamadeens have not been very nice to Christians either.

One or the other - not my fight, not my monkeys.  I am not picking a side on this one.

We are not Mohamadeens. We are Muslims. I don’t understand how Christians can have this mindset. Your brothers and sisters are in Gaza too. I have grown up with, worked with, and worked for Palestinian Christian’s for much of my life. They are often harsher towards Israel than I am. They have relatives dying in the refugee camps too. They have family being killed now too. Your faith should inspire more loyalty than the fact that they are Christians in another country. 

[Anomaly]

Two wrongs don’t make things right.   Palestinians harbor Hamas that planned and carried out an attack on civilian children.   
That is indefensible.

Nor do I condone Israel’s air attacks and cutting off power. That too is indefensible.  
 

Only when both sides agree to forgive all past injustices, and avow each nation’s right to exist, will the hating and death cease.  
 

Who kills their brother or sister for an offense?     
But who fights against a brother or sister if they endanger your life.   

Edited October 26, 2023 by Anomaly

[Didacus]

I pray for all to be safe and at peace; Jews, Christians and mohammedans alike.

I even pray for those god-dammed atheists!

Anomaly - well said, and agreed.

 

Let me repeat; in so far as the fighting is concerned, not my monkeys, not my fight.

[little2add]

 

[Anastasia13]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:20 AM, Didacus said:

I am on the side of peace - always.

But if asked to take a side between Israel or Palestine, very sorry, but my take is;

Not my fight...

Our fight is not against the powers of this world, and there is no perfect side in a human war. Praying “Lord have mercy” is the best side any of us can take. I’ve known wrong happenings on both sides, Israelis being victims and victomizing even Christians outside of Palestine and breaking their word in governance. Hamas does not represent all Palestinians and has conducted terrorism. It’s a huge mess. I fear how much we will get pulled into a messy way and call it clear cut and easy.

On 10/23/2023 at 6:49 AM, Didacus said:

Mohamadeens have not been very nice to Christians either.

One or the other - not my fight, not my monkeys.  I am not picking a side on this one.

It’s in the last century that the Christian population of Lebanon has gone down. The centuries before, not quite as bad. There is more to the story.

10 hours ago, little2add said:

 

People on both sides feel that way. We need more prayer, not more bombs.

[little2add]

'War Begets War, Violence Begets Violence'

 

[Anomaly]

In this current phase of a many decades long conflict, the bottom line is if Israel had the right to exist as a Jewish nation.    
 

If yes, then Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.  
Palestine can only be an autonomous State if they and the surrounding Arab nations can agree on that point.  
Israel.  More than 15% of Israel’s population is Palestinian  living there peacefully. 
 

What would you do if your next door neighbors constantly threatened you and shot your windows out?   What if the police said they have no legal method to arrest your neighbor?

When do you cross the fence to confront your neighbor?    What would that confrontation consist of, keeping in mind you and your neighbors have children living there?

[fides' Jack]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:28 AM, Anomaly said:

If yes, then Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.  

No matter what, Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.

[Anomaly]

47 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

No matter what, Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.

No, not “no matter what”.

Israel cannot defend themselves with any action, “no matter what” either.   

Israel’s options are limited because Hamas cares as little about the Palestinians, as they do the Jewish people.  Civilian Palestinian deaths serves Hamas just as validly as Israeli deaths.  
 

I know you really didn’t mean Israel could do whatever it wants because of the Hamas attacks and Hamas still has to shut up, but there is dangerous backlash when either side is admonished with a “no matter what”.   
 

An excellent thought provoking article here, if you can handle some vulgarity.   
jamesfell.substack.com/p/your-antisemitism-is-showing.    
I am interested in yours, or any other’s thoughts   

 

[KnightofChrist]

When and where is the next opening phase to WWIII : East vs West?

Just as Ukraine seemed to be winding down. Boom, Israel vs Palestine. What's next?

When do all the proxy wars, forever wars become actual and direct?

It's all rather insane. The World has gone mad.

 

[Machine_Washable]

On 11/8/2023 at 9:28 AM, Anomaly said:

In this current phase of a many decades long conflict, the bottom line is if Israel had the right to exist as a Jewish nation.    
 

If yes, then Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.  
Palestine can only be an autonomous State if they and the surrounding Arab nations can agree on that point.  
Israel.  More than 15% of Israel’s population is Palestinian  living there peacefully. 
 

What would you do if your next door neighbors constantly threatened you and shot your windows out?   What if the police said they have no legal method to arrest your neighbor?

When do you cross the fence to confront your neighbor?    What would that confrontation consist of, keeping in mind you and your neighbors have children living there?

Hamas has never called for the elimination of all Jews. This is an extrapolation that zionaists make from a hadith that they cite in their charter about the end times. No Musim group can call for the elimination of Jews because they are ahl al-kitāb. Muslims can fight them but if they surrender then they are dhimmis which is a covenant with the Muslim ruler. A Muslim ruler is required by the sharia to protect the life and rights of dhimmis. 

 

Protection from Outside Aggression

The non-Muslims and Muslims have equal rights in this connection: the imam, by virtue of the executive and military power granted him by the Islamic shari‘ah, should provide protection for all of them. It is stated in the Hanbali book of figh, Matalib Ula An-Nuha:

'The ruler of the Muslim community is bound to protect the non-Muslims and to save them from aggression. Should they fall into captivity, the imam must marshal all the resources to secure their release and punish the transgressors against their lives and properties, even if they were the sole (non-Muslims) living in a remote village.'

In his book Al-Furugq, Imam Al-Qarafi al-Malaki, quoting from Maratib Al-lima‘ by Ibn Hazm, states:

'Muslims who have entered into a pact of dhimma, should fight until death with those who try to oppress non-Muslims in the Islamic state in order to abide by the guarantee given to them by Almighty Allah, His messenger, upon whom be peace. Otherwise they will be considered as traitors.'

That is from Yūsuf al-Qaraḍāwī's Non Musims in the Islamic Society. Yūsuf al-Qaraḍāwī was a prominent scholar of the Muslim Brotherhood which is connected to Hamas. I am not a scholar but I think a call to eliminate all Jews would make one an apostate. 

The Hamas charter does contain antisemitism in it. That is wrong. But you should also consider that 2 of the 3 founding members of Hamas were children when the Israelis massacred much of their villages. For example, Ibrahim Yazuri survived two different attacks by the Israeli army in the 50s including one where all the men in his village age older than 15 were lined up an shot. So when we consider the impact of the Holocaust on Israeli actions we should grant the same consideration to palestinians who were the victims of Israeli ethnic cleansing. 

 

On 11/9/2023 at 1:00 PM, fides' Jack said:

No matter what, Hamas must stop preaching the elimination of Jews.

They amended their charter in 2017 to distinguish between Jews and Zionists.

On 11/9/2023 at 2:00 PM, Anomaly said:

No, not “no matter what”.

Israel cannot defend themselves with any action, “no matter what” either.   

Israel’s options are limited because Hamas cares as little about the Palestinians, as they do the Jewish people.  Civilian Palestinian deaths serves Hamas just as validly as Israeli deaths.  
 

I know you really didn’t mean Israel could do whatever it wants because of the Hamas attacks and Hamas still has to shut up, but there is dangerous backlash when either side is admonished with a “no matter what”.   
 

An excellent thought provoking article here, if you can handle some vulgarity.   
jamesfell.substack.com/p/your-antisemitism-is-showing.    
I am interested in yours, or any other’s thoughts   

 

Israel has killed over 10,000 Palestinians in the last month. Most of them civilians. It has displaced 1.7 million Palestinians. North Gaza is rubble. I don't know if you are aware of how brutal Israel has been towards the Palestinians. I read part of the substack. I found it difficult to finish because it is extremely ignorant. The Saudi's actions in Yemen were cursed by every Muslim I know. Syria was a ralling cry for the ummah for years and years. 

This man is a fool if he thinks that this will eliminate Hamas. He's as much of a fool as the Israeli's were when they lined up the boys and men of Ibrahim Yazuri's village and shot them all when he was 15 years old in the 1950s. 

"Self-defense of a nation is a legal right under international law, and yet even before Israel reacted there were rallies and social media chatter supporting Palestinians. Again, in the wake of the deadliest day for Jewish people since the Holocaust, and before Israel had launched any counterattack, thousands of people took to the streets to show support for those that the October 7 attack was allegedly done on behalf of."

Let me ask you a question. Do the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves? Or do they only have a right to watch settlers in the West Bank gobble up their land and endure Israeli campaigns of "mowing the grass" in Gaza every few years?

 

On 11/9/2023 at 10:05 PM, KnightofChrist said:

When and where is the next opening phase to WWIII : East vs West?

Just as Ukraine seemed to be winding down. Boom, Israel vs Palestine. What's next?

When do all the proxy wars, forever wars become actual and direct?

It's all rather insane. The World has gone mad.

 

Muhammad bin Salman wants to normalize relations with Israel. Turkey and Iran have proven they won't do anything beyond words. I don't think there will be a spread of the conflict now. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Machine_Washable

[KnightofChrist]

2 hours ago, Machine_Washable said:

Muhammad bin Salman wants to normalize relations with Israel. Turkey and Iran have proven they won't do anything beyond words. I don't think there will be a spread of the conflict now. 

Proxies of Iran and others have been struck US bases in the region since Oct. 17. US has return fire with fire. Various US officials have threatened to strike Iran. While I hope you are correct, I have doubts.

Even so, overall the next phase may somewhere completely different. Korea, Taiwan, or somewhere unexpected.

[dUSt]

8 hours ago, Machine_Washable said:

They amended their charter in 2017 to distinguish between Jews and Zionists

Oh, ok, so they only want to eliminate all the Jews in Israel who believe in a Jewish state. They'll leave all the Jews who don't want a Jewish state alone? How many Jews in Israel do not want a Jewish state?

[Machine_Washable]

5 hours ago, dUSt said:

Oh, ok, so they only want to eliminate all the Jews in Israel who believe in a Jewish state. They'll leave all the Jews who don't want a Jewish state alone? How many Jews in Israel do not want a Jewish state?

I was not clear. Their amended charter does a better job of removing antisemitism and distinguishing between Jewish people and Zionist forces and powers in the region. That is all I was trying to say. I did not say Hamas wants to eliminate all zionists from the region. They have indicated the would be willing to accept a truce with Israel. In none of these instances do they recognize Israel as a state. 
 

Hamas has no power to destroy Israel. They have light weapons and RPGs that they make themselves. Hamas can cost Israel if they have to fight in the tunnels. But they have no ability to seriously damage Israel’s military from offensive operations. 

11 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

Proxies of Iran and others have been struck US bases in the region since Oct. 17. US has return fire with fire. Various US officials have threatened to strike Iran. While I hope you are correct, I have doubts.

Even so, overall the next phase may somewhere completely different. Korea, Taiwan, or somewhere unexpected.

Inshallah. I do too. I am less confident than I was yesterday. None of the regional powers want a way. Saudi Arabia wants to normalize ties with Israel. Turkey wants gas deals. Iran wants a deal with Saudi Arabia. 
 

Israel may want to provoke something with Hezbollah for two reasons. Firstly, because Netanyahu needs the war the last a long time so he can survive the domestic political mess he’s in. Secondly, because like Ukraine against Russia, it is beneficial to Israel to bring the US into this conflict. This would help them with Hezbollah and Iran. When I say Israeli here I mostly mean Netanyahu. There are many smarter people inIsrael than him.