Proud To Be American (or Whatever Other Country)?

[ironmonk]

The sin of pride has been a tool of satan for quite sometime.

"Proud to be American." - No. I'm thankful to be American. Nothing I did made me an American and nothing I do is of my own doing. I owe everything to God. It was by the grace of the Lord that I have been put into the place I am in. Nothing is of my own power.

We must be humble. We must forsake all pride.

The way to combat pride is by being humble.

When we something that we get complimented for, we should thank the Lord that we made the right decission. We should thank the Lord for the Gaurdian Angel that He has appointed to us. We should thank all the saints and angels that have prayed for us. We should be thankful to all our family and friends that have prayed for us.

[quote][b]Pride[/b]
Pride is the excessive love of one's own excellence. It is ordinarily accounted one of the seven capital sins. St. Thomas, however, endorsing the appreciation of St. Gregory, considers it the queen of all vices, and puts vainglory in its place as one of the deadly sins. In giving it this pre-eminence he takes it in a most formal and complete signification. He understands it to be that frame of mind in which a man, through the love of his own worth, aims to withdraw himself from subjection to Almighty God, and sets at naught the commands of superiors. It is a species of contempt of God and of those who bear his commission. Regarded in this way, it is of course mortal sin of a most heinous sort. Indeed St. Thomas rates it in this sense as one of the blackest of sins. By it the creature refuses to stay within his essential orbit; he turns his back upon God, not through weakness or ignorance, but solely because in his self-exaltation he is minded not to submit. His attitude has something Satanic in it, and is probably not often verified in human beings. A less atrocious kind of pride is that which imples one to make much of oneself unduly and without sufficient warrant, without however any disposition to cast off the dominion of the Creator. This may happen, according to St. Gregory, either because a man regards himself as the source of such advantages as he may discern in himself, or because, whilst admitted that God has bestowed them, he reputes this to have been in response to his own merits, or because he attributes to himself gifts which he has not; or, finally, because even when these are real he unreasonably looks to be put ahead of others. Supposing the conviction indicated in the first two instances to be seriously entertained, the sin would be a grievous one and would have the added guilt of heresy. Ordinarily, however, this erroneous persuasion does not exist; it is the demeanour that is reprehensible. The last two cases generally speaking are not held to constitute grave offences. This is not true, however, whenever a man's arrogance is the occasion of great harm to another, as, for instance, his undertaking the duties of a physician without the requisite knowledge. The same judgment is to be rendered when pride has given rise to such temper of soul that in the pursuit of its object one is ready of anything, even mortal sin. Vainglory, ambition, and presumption are commonly enumerated as the offspring vices of pride, because they are well adapted to serve its inordinate aims. Of themselves they are venial sins unless some extraneous consideration puts them in the ranks of grievous transgressions. It should be noted that presumption does not here stand for the sin against hope. It means the desire to essay what exceeds one's capacity.
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12405a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12405a.htm[/url][/quote]



[b]The Virtue of Humility[/b]


[quote]The virtue of humility may be defined: "[b][u]A quality by which a person considering his own defects has a lowly opinion of himself and willingly submits himself to God and to others for God's sake[/u][/b]." St. Bernard defines it: "A virtue by which a man knowing himself as he truly is, abases himself." These definitions coincide with that given by St. Thomas: "The virtue of humility", he says, "Consists in keeping oneself within one's own bounds, not reaching out to things above one, but submitting to one's superior" (Summa Contra Gent., bk. IV, ch. lv, tr. Rickaby).

To guard against an erroneous idea of humility, it is necessary to explain the manner in which we ought to esteem our own gifts in reference to the gifts of others, if called upon to make a comparison. Humility does not require us to esteem the gifts and graces which God has granted us, in the supernatural order, less than similar gifts and graces which appear in others. No one should esteem less in himself than in others these gifts of God which are to be valued above all things according to the words of St. Paul: "That we may know the things that are given us from God." (I Cor., ii, 12). Neither does humility require us in our own estimation to think less of the natural gifts we possess than of similar, or of inferior, gifts in our neighbours; otherwise, as St. Thomas teaches, it would behove everyone to consider himself a greater sinner or a greater fool than his neighbour; for the Apostle without any prejudice to humility was able to say: "We by nature are Jews, and not of the Gentiles sinners" (Gal., ii, 15). A man, however, may generally esteem some good in his neighbour which he does not himself possess, or acknowledge some defect or evil in himself which he does not perceive in his neighbour, so that, whenever anyone subjects himself out of humility to an equal or to an inferior he does so because he takes that equal or inferior to be his superior in some respect. Thus we may interpret the humble expressions of the saints as true and sincere. Besides, their great love of God caused them to see the malice of their own faults and sins in a clearer light than that which is ordinarily given to persons who are not saints.

The four cardinal virtues are [b]prudence[/b], [b]justice[/b], [b]fortitude[/b], and [b]temperance[/b], and all other moral virtues are annexed to theses either as integral, potential, or subjective parts. Humility is annexed to the virtue of temperance as a potential part, because temperance includes all those virtues that refrain or express the inordinate movements of our desires or appetites. [u]Humility is a repressing or moderating virtue opposed to pride and vainglory or that spirit within us which urges us to great things above our strength and ability, and therefore it is included in temperance [/u]just as meekness which represses anger is a part of the same virtue.
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm[/url][/quote]



We are low. We should first serve others before ourselves.


Wise words from St. Escriva: The Way

[b]596 [/b]Don't worry if they see your defects; the offence against God and the scandal you may give; that is what should worry you.

Apart from this, may you be known for what you are and be despised. Don't be sorry to be nothing, since then Jesus will have to be everything for you.

[b]602 [/b]For all your learning, for all your fame, your eloquence and power, if you are not humble, you are worth nothing. Cut out, root out that self-complacency which dominates you so completely. — God will help you — and then you will be able to begin working for Christ, in the lowest place in his army of apostles.

[b]603 [/b]That false humility is laziness. Such humbleness is a handy way of giving up rights that are really duties.

[b]604 [/b]Humbly acknowledge your weakness so that, with the Apostle, you can say: 'It is when I am weak that I am strong'.

[b]611 [/b]Because of pride. — You were already becoming convinced that you, by yourself, were equal to anything. He left you for a moment, and you fell headlong. — Be humble and his extraordinary aid will not fail you.

[b]612 [/b]Get rid of those proud thoughts: you are but the brush in the hand of the artist. And nothing more.

Tell me: of what use is a brush, if it won't let the painter do his work?

[b]613 [/b]If you wish to be humble — you, who are so empty and self-satisfied — just consider these words of Isaias: you are 'a drop of water or dew that falls on the ground and is scarcely seen.'



[url="http://www.saint-mike.org/library/Rule/Excerpts/Steps_to_Humility.html"]The Call to Humility: St. Benedict’s Twelve Steps[/url]



God Bless,
ironmonk

[crusader1234]

I'm greatful to God that I was born in Canada, because its such a great gift considering the other 90 percent of the world isn't as well off as we are. To live here is great, and I love the country - but its not like I earned my place here.

Sometimes though, I wish I had been born in Africa or Iraq or soemthing where I wouldn't be so cought up in materialism and adultery... and I could focus on basic things like food and shelter and God.

A rich man in heaven is like a camel through the eye of a needle... so I know its going to take a lot of effort for me to get there.

[homeschoolmom]

yeah... I've been thinking about this a lot lately... "thankful to be American" is a much better thought...

[Colleen]

Yeah, thankful is really the better word. I never thought of that. Thanks, ironmonk.

[quote]604 Humbly acknowledge your weakness so that, with the Apostle, you can say: 'It is when I am weak that I am strong'.[/quote]
Great quote.

[picchick]

I agree with you, Ironmonk, about being thankful for being an American. However, I think that the phrase, "Proud to be an American" has a different meaning then the pride you speak of.

I say that phrase meaning, "I am happy to be here. I respect the things my country has done for me." It is kind of like saying that I am proud of my little brother because he tied his own shoes or that I am proud of my dad because he was in the military and helped defend our country.

So all in all, I think that the phrase "Proud to be an American" does not take in the same meaning of boasting but that of respect and patriotism

[ironmonk]

[quote name='picchick' date='Jul 14 2004, 09:47 AM'] I agree with you, Ironmonk, about being thankful for being an American. However, I think that the phrase, "Proud to be an American" has a different meaning then the pride you speak of.

I say that phrase meaning, "I am happy to be here. I respect the things my country has done for me." It is kind of like saying that I am proud of my little brother because he tied his own shoes or that I am proud of my dad because he was in the military and helped defend our country.

So all in all, I think that the phrase "Proud to be an American" does not take in the same meaning of boasting but that of respect and patriotism [/quote]
All pride is boasting.

We have nothing to be proud of.

We should only be thankful and humble.

Happy is not pride. Pride is not happiness.

Your little brother didn't tie his own shoes on his own... you should be thankful to God that he has the ability to learn and function so that he can tie his shoes. You should be thankful to God that you dad had the chance to defend our country and could do so, and came back alive.

We have nothing to be proud of.

Pride is a vice, not a virtue. Humility is a virtue. Humility makes us thankful. Pride makes us think that it is of our own doing, when in fact we could do nothing if it were not for God.

We should be thankful.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Azriel]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 14 2004, 09:47 AM'] All pride is boasting.

We have nothing to be proud of.

We should only be thankful and humble.

Happy is not pride. Pride is not happiness.

Your little brother didn't tie his own shoes on his own... you should be thankful to God that he has the ability to learn and function so that he can tie his shoes. You should be thankful to God that you dad had the chance to defend our country and could do so, and came back alive.

We have nothing to be proud of.

Pride is a vice, not a virtue. Humility is a virtue. Humility makes us thankful. Pride makes us think that it is of our own doing, when in fact we could do nothing if it were not for God.

We should be thankful.


God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
Proud. Its a word that we throw around without thinking about. Proud's definition is to be boastful. However, isn't necessarily used that way.

In Picchick's example, she is proud of her little brother for tieing his own shoes. I don't think for a second that she's not thankful to God for her little brother's capabilities. And, I believe she knows that we can do nothing without God. I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that she isn't boastful of this act, but delights in it! It causes her happiness to see what her brother and father have done.

I don't think that negates being thankful.

I don't disagree with you Monk, not at all. I just think that when speaking of being proud, especially when discussing our delight with our children, or those close to us, we are probably using it the wrong word. So, when I slip and say I'm proud of Danielle, what I'm thinking is that I'm delighted in her, and thankful to God that she is here with me. We should never be prideful in the sense that we give credit to ourselves that which comes from God. But, I don't think that means we can't feel happiness, nor delight at the things our families/friends, etc do.

Oh ... I'm sure that makes no sense, cause I've been up all night with her. Nevermind me.

[catholicguy]

If I were "thankful to be in America," I wouldn't say proud to be an American, so I agree with you that far. However, "Americanism" has been condemned as heresy along with Modernism and Liberalism, all of which are mortal sins against Faith. The American system is wrong. Separation of Church and state is wrong. The fact that the country's laws are not based upon the Church of Christ is wrong. "Religious liberty" (the State allowing other religions other than Catholicism) is wrong. All of these are heresis condemned by various Popes, most noteably Blessed Pius IX and Leo XIII.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Jul 14 2004, 12:01 PM'] Proud.  Its a word that we throw around without thinking about.  Proud's definition is to be boastful.  However, isn't necessarily used that way.

In Picchick's example, she is proud of her little brother for tieing his own shoes.  I don't think for a second that she's not thankful to God for her little brother's capabilities.  And, I believe she knows that we can do nothing without God.  I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that she isn't boastful of this act, but delights in it!  It causes her happiness to see what her brother and father have done.

I don't think that negates being thankful.

I don't disagree with you Monk, not at all.  I just think that when speaking of being proud, especially when discussing our delight with our children, or those close to us, we are probably using it the wrong word.  So, when I slip and say I'm proud of Danielle, what I'm thinking is that I'm delighted in her, and thankful to God that she is here with me.  We should never be prideful in the sense that we give credit to ourselves that which comes from God.  But, I don't think that means we can't feel happiness, nor delight at the things our families/friends, etc do.

Oh ... I'm sure that makes no sense, cause I've been up all night with her.  Nevermind me. [/quote]
That's my point... that pride means to be boastful.

Proud wouldn't be the proper term to use.

Happiness has nothing to do with pride. I didn't say that we can't feel happy. Her little brother tying his shoes is something to be very happy for, but not proud.



Think of what satan has been able to do with pride....

People think that "some" pride is ok... when in fact, pride can never be ok.
Pride leads us to reject God.

Satan works in slow manipulation, he likes to make people come to the conclusion that they can rely totally on themselves and their own reasoning. Like with Adam and Eve with the fruit. He casts doubts. Which uses man's own reasoning against us.

First Satan gets people to accept pride as meaning happy. Which doesn't sound all to bad in this day and age with everyone saying the word "proud" so much. Now people begin to hear the word proud and think "Yes, I should be proud"... "I mean look at all that has been accomplished, I did this all on my own with no one's help"... "yes, that is something to be proud of".... "How can pride be a sin?".


All pride is wrong. There is nothing that we do on our own. Being happy because God blessed our child to do things early or on time in life is not pride. It's thankful and happy. No one can do anything on their own... everything is because God allows us to succeed.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited July 14, 2004 by ironmonk

[Azriel]

We agree Ironmonk - I just think most people confuse the terms, and are not always being prideful, as much as they are happy. You're right, pride is wrong.

I'm on board witcha - I just like to ramble when I've had no sleep.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='catholicguy' date='Jul 14 2004, 12:22 PM'] If I were "thankful to be in America," I wouldn't say proud to be an American, so I agree with you that far. However, "Americanism" has been condemned as heresy along with Modernism and Liberalism, all of which are mortal sins against Faith. The American system is wrong. Separation of Church and state is wrong. The fact that the country's laws are not based upon the Church of Christ is wrong. "Religious liberty" (the State allowing other religions other than Catholicism) is wrong. All of these are heresis condemned by various Popes, most noteably Blessed Pius IX and Leo XIII. [/quote]
I agree to a point.

We should allow people to believe what they want to believe, as Popes have said in the past. We cannot force people to be Catholic. Muslims need to be Muslims, Jews need to be Jews. We win souls for Christ through love.

Our society should adhere to Catholic morals.... while still letting people believe what they want.


Seperation of Church and State ment that the government cannot choose the people's beliefs. It is good that America was built on that because we would have been forced to believe in heresy because of England.... we would have been seperated from our Church and not have known the Truth.

America was correct in doing what they did (in the beginning), it was England, Germany, etc... who are at fault for all the moral troubles of our western culture. But also, that was 400 + years ago so we can't really blame the people that were raised to believe such things.

It doesn't matter who's fault it is.... what matter's is how we go about fixing it.

If there were enough real Catholics in this country, we could fix it so that we would have a Nation with Catholic Leadership. Rule No. 1 = Advice from the Council of Bishops/Vatican must be followed. 2 = No life long politicians (10 year max term in all offices)



God Bless,
ironmonk

[Quietfire]

I am thankful that I am healthy.
I am thankful for being born into my family.
I am thankful for marrying a wonderful, caring, loving and supportive MAN.
I am thankful for the family I married into.
I am thankful that I was born in America.

I could go on and on but just one more

I am thankful that Ironmonk specified the word I was looking for to explain my gratefulness for the bountiful gifts that I have received in my life.

Everyday is Thanksgiving.
Be thankful, be grateful.
Be humble.

Peace.

[Guest JeffCR07]

This is such a good thread, I really think that the Litany of Humility belongs on here somewhere, so...

LITANY OF HUMILITY

O Jesus, meek and humble of heart,
Hear me.

From the desire of being esteemed,. Deliver me, O Jesus.
From the desire of being loved,
From the desire of being extolled,
From the desire of being honored,
From the desire of being praised,
From the desire of being preferred to others,
From the desire of being consulted,.
From the desire of being approved,
From the fear of being humiliated,
From the fear of being despised,
From the fear of suffering rebukes,.
From the fear of being calumniated,
From the fear of being forgotten,
From the fear of being ridiculed,
From the fear of being wronged,
From the fear of being suspected,

That others may be loved more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I,
That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease,
That others may be chosen and I set aside,
That others may be praised and I go unnoticed,
That others may be preferred to me in everything,.
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should.

[picchick]

Ironmonk,
I can see what you are saying. People use the word "proud" to describe other feelings. For example, my brother's shoes, I feel joy or happiness because he learned something new (not to mention I wouldn't have to tie them for him anymore j/k). With my dad, I feel respect at the courage he had to join the military, potentially putting his life in danger to keep us free. my "proud American" feeling is one of patriotism

I see how some people can slip from being proud-happy to being proud-pride. Thanks

meg

[MC Just]

Lately i've become sort of "Anti-America". What I mean is I dont want to support a country that's slowly by slowly becoming a giant sodom and gormorrah. Babie's are murdered in the name of american freedom and choice. anti-christian liberals tying to remove everything that has to do with God. Homosexual marriage,the sexual revolution this growing culture of death. This country is just spilling out all kinds of abominations. We try to speak up and are told to shut up. People expecting us to just stop our apostolic mission. There are liberal judge's in Massachusetts who are fighting to make homosexual marriage nation wide. That means everywhere. I definitely aint proud..

Edited July 14, 2004 by MC Just