Lil Red Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 Okay, so the other day, my husband and I were out driving on the highway. He accidentally hit a bird, and I said something like, "Oh the poor thing." And my husband made a joke out of it, and I said he should have compassion (mind you he was joking and so was I, kinda). Then we got into a discussion about whether animals have souls. I said that they do not, because they lack the ability for rational and logical thought. But then he turned it around on me (and now I forget how because I have a really bad memory). How would you defend the position of animals not having souls? Or do you believe that they do?
nikkan_hanil Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 Hmm...well animals really don't have exact reasoning because they are run by instict primarily. I do believe they have some sort of soul or life force in them that causes them to hop around but even if they did have souls they would not be eternal thanks to their lacking of spiritual reasoning. Yup. Dogs really [i]don't[/i] go to heaven. Then again, take Terry Schiavo, the woman in Florida in a vegetative state. She may have lost logic and reasoning but she still has a soul. In fact I think everything that is living has some sort of soul. Clones? I'm going to think about that but that's off topic... Souls? Yes. Eternal souls? No.
nikkan_hanil Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 Also I forgot to mention, you shouldn't really feel bad that you killed a bird. Sure it has feeling, but it's not like you robbed it's salvation or anything. It would've died sometime anyway, I mean animals were made to serve man. In my opinion they're kinda like organic robots. :transform: No rights. *Blows up PETA*
Lil Red Posted July 21, 2004 Author Posted July 21, 2004 i know, i don't feel like, awfully horrible, as if I killed a person, but I did feel bad.
God Conquers Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 All Created things have souls: Plants have vegetative souls, animals have animal souls, humans have immortal human souls. As humans and as Image and Likeness of God our souls are different from the other created things, but they still have souls.
Theoketos Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 Animals do have souls, but they are not the same kind of soul as a human soul. For Animals lack certain powers which are unique to the human soul. One of those powers is that of the intellect, by which humans descern right from wrong. Now since animals never choose good from evil, they thus also may not choose heaven or hell. Also it seems that the bird's life is wasted, but it is not for it is part of the cycle of life, fear not for the bird did not suffer. And if the Father has concern for the birds of the air how much more are you in His mind!
Paladin D Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 [b]Jack Van Impe[/b] will disagree [url="http://www.eternalanimals.com/"]http://www.eternalanimals.com/[/url] (he endores the book).
mmmerf Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 Yeah. There's an animal soul, but it's not the same as a human soul. Good thing too. 'Cause chicken wings is tasty. And tacos, so very tasty and good for you,. mmm. tacos, so very tasty and good for you,.
conservativecatholic Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 [i]All Birds Go to Heaven[/i]. They need to make that movie!
BurkeFan Posted July 21, 2004 Posted July 21, 2004 All souls have the nutritive aspect, animal souls add the locomotive aspect, and we have rationality. Animals surely do have souls, especially if one takes soul to mean the animating principle of a thing, the form of a thing.
Mary's Knight, La Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 the above posts on the soul are correct, it stems from the fact that when you and i talk about souls we're usually really referring to our spirits (for us they're the same) animals have souls but their souls aren't spirits, our souls are spirits and vice versa. as for BurkeFan's post it's technically correct but I think our intellect is properly a spiritual power e.g. comes from being child rather than simply creation
Apotheoun Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 (edited) All living beings have souls. Plants have vegetative souls, animals have sensate souls, and human beings have rational souls. The fact that man has a rational soul is what makes him an image of God, for the properties of intellect and will, along with the human body (because of the incarnation) are what make man an [i]imago Dei[/i]. While it is sanctifying or deifying grace that conforms man to the likeness of God. One other thing to keep in mind, is that it is only the rational soul that exceeds the matter that it actuates, and as a consequence, it alone can exist in separation from matter, while vegetative and sensate souls cannot. Edited July 22, 2004 by Apotheoun
nikkan_hanil Posted July 22, 2004 Posted July 22, 2004 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Jul 21 2004, 12:51 PM'] [b]Jack Van Impe[/b] will disagree [url="http://www.eternalanimals.com/"]http://www.eternalanimals.com/[/url] (he endores the book). [/quote] Oh man, this guy's a Prot, right?
Pio Nono Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 JMJ 7/23 - St. Apollinarius of Ravenna So, to play devil's advocate philosophically... Are the souls of animals immortal? It would seem that they are - to paraphrase an old beer commercial, "A soul is a soul is a soul is a soul...." What is it [i]in them[/i] that prevents their being eternal, if they are not eternal. I've got an answer from Aquinas (I don't know if it's a good one), but it works. BTW, stay away from the "image and likeness of God" thing - though it's true, it's profoundly unphilosophical.
Paladin D Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 [quote name='nikkan_hanil' date='Jul 21 2004, 09:56 PM'] Oh man, this guy's a Prot, right? [/quote] Yeah.
God Conquers Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 However, very Theological. I agree Image and Likeness may not work on an atheist, but it should on a Christian.
qfnol31 Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Jul 21 2004, 11:41 AM'] All Created things have souls: Plants have vegetative souls, animals have animal souls, humans have immortal human souls. As humans and as Image and Likeness of God our souls are different from the other created things, but they still have souls. [/quote] Aristotle/Augustine. Anima!
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