Hurting Yourself And How Sinful It Is

[Dave]

Before I begin, please know that this is JUST a hypothetical question about a hypothetical situation. I never participated in any of the activities described below, nor do I know anyone who ever has.

I know that to seriously disfigure or mutilate yourself would be mortally sinful. In fact, that's basically how the late Fr. John Hardon defines mutilation -- an action that deprives someone of part of their body or seriously disfigures it.

Ok, here's the situation ... suppose you and your friends decided to act crazy like the guys on "Jackass." Suppose you decided to give yourself a bloody nose or prick your finger with a needle or something. Would such things be mortally sinful? I mean, although it would be stupid to do them, it's not like y'all would be trying to destroy or seriously disfigure parts of your body.

[Lil Red]

what about people who don't do it do be like the guys on "Jackass"? what about those people who sincerely believe that they are releasing their emotional pain by cutting or scarring themselves? that they believe it's better than committing suicide?

(speaking as a person who used to self-mutilate)

[p0lar_bear]

In Lil Red's example, I think the self-mutilization is more an expression of an emotional or mental disorder than sin. Anyone experiencing the desire to self-mutilate should seek professional help. As someone who has suffered from depression as long as I can remember, there is no reason for anyone to go through this alone and there are people who can help. (Not directed to Lil Red as much as anyone who has this problem).


As for Dave...

Why anyone would want to emulate Jackass is beyond me.

While it would obviously be incredibly stupid to purposely break ones nose, would it be mortally sinful?

Well, since we can't judge intent or knowledge, the question would be is it grave matter. Pricking ones finger would probably not be grave matter, since little harm actually comes from it. If one put oneself in danger of serious injury or death out of pure stupidity and a desire for attention, I think it could constitute grave matter.

[Dave]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jul 23 2004, 12:14 PM'] In Lil Red's example, I think the self-mutilization is more an expression of an emotional or mental disorder than sin. Anyone experiencing the desire to self-mutilate should seek professional help. As someone who has suffered from depression as long as I can remember, there is no reason for anyone to go through this alone and there are people who can help. (Not directed to Lil Red as much as anyone who has this problem).


As for Dave...

Why anyone would want to emulate Jackass is beyond me.

While it would obviously be incredibly stupid to purposely break ones nose, would it be mortally sinful?

Well, since we can't judge intent or knowledge, the question would be is it grave matter. Pricking ones finger would probably not be grave matter, since little harm actually comes from it. If one put oneself in danger of serious injury or death out of pure stupidity and a desire for attention, I think it could constitute grave matter. [/quote]
No, I didn't say deliberately breaking your nose. If you deliberately broke a bone in your body, I'd say that's serious matter. The example I cited was just giving yourself a nosebleed and nothing more.

[mmmerf]

I think aiming to draw blood would be where I drew the line. So getting a buddy to punch your shoulder is one thing - but a bloody nose is too much (besides, that can go wrong, you know.)

[p0lar_bear]

I'm still trying to figure out why someone would [i]want[/i] to give himself a bloody nose...

[Dave]

Like I said earlier, it's just hypothetical. But then again, maybe I just think too much.

[Iacobus]

Not sure why anyone would want to hurt themselves. I have never gone through anything like that and can't claim to understand it. But damaging the body would be sinful. And preposly doing it like picking the nose with a needle would be sinful in my mind. However if someone wants to hurt them selves I would say that it is less a sin than a mental disorder which needs real help.

[Chris Zewe]

From the Bible - A butchered quote:

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off."

[MichaelFilo]

Chris, I think we've been through this a couple of times now, but I guess I'll give it one more go. Not everything in the Bible is literal, not everything in the Bible is a hyperbole, not everything in the Bible is a symbol. The Bible is made up of all these things. That quote, is a hyperbole.


God bless,

Michael Filo

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

One time in Biology class I pricked my finger to draw blood to look at the red blood cells under the microscope. My intention was not to cause myself pain (it did sting a little bit) or get some rush out of drawing blood (I grabbed a bandaid after I got the blood on the slide). In this case, the action was not done for a sinful purpose.

[Chris Zewe]

Mike, I'm sick of of this. Every flaw I find, every contradiction, everything that's wrong with the bible is either a hyperbole, symbolic, or not to be taken literally. I will never quote or respond to a quote from the bible again.

[mmmerf]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Jul 23 2004, 02:31 PM'] Chris, I think we've been through this a couple of times now, but I guess I'll give it one more go. Not everything in the Bible is literal, not everything in the Bible is a hyperbole, not everything in the Bible is a symbol. The Bible is made up of all these things. That quote, is a hyperbole.


God bless,

Michael Filo [/quote]
Michael, I'm not sure that's fair.

I mean, that quote is there because it makes the point of how far we should go to protect our souls. If I had cancer in my leg that required amputation, I'd get it amputated. (And i'd crack jokes about a fantastic new weight-loss plan, but that's neither here nor there)

That passage tells us that we should be as ready to do the same to protect our spiritual lives.

Certainly hand-amputation might be a last resort (I can't think of a single sin where my hand was the problem and not my brain) (or the tacos, so very tasty and good for you,... mmm... tacos, so very tasty and good for you,... anyways) but it's a valid statement.

But cutting off your hand for spiritual health (if it were ever necessary) and cutting off your hand for the fun of it are two different things.

So I think you're both wrong.

For further exploration of this topic I reccomend you read 'A Farewell to Arms' by Ernest Hemingway...

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jul 23 2004, 04:24 PM'] From the Bible - A butchered quote:

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off." [/quote]
Aside from the argument of hyperbole, this quote really doesn't apply to the conversation.

There can be legitimate reasons to cause oneself injury (like 1337's example). We are talking about whether it is gravely sinful to cause injury pretty much for the sake of causing injury.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jul 23 2004, 03:05 PM'] Aside from the argument of hyperbole, this quote really doesn't apply to the conversation.

There can be legitimate reasons to cause oneself injury (like 1337's example). We are talking about whether it is gravely sinful to cause injury pretty much for the sake of causing injury. [/quote]
It was pretty cool to do to. Looking at the blood cells that is. After a few minutes, the cells started to rupture. I spotted a few white cells, but the red cells were defintely the neat part.

[p0lar_bear]

I think it would be cool to look at, but I have a HUGE issue with needles :freak:

I can watch movies with all sorts of violence, people getting shot, explosions, etc, but I flinch if someone pulls out a needle.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Chris Zewe' date='Jul 23 2004, 02:34 PM'] Mike, I'm sick of of this. Every flaw I find, every contradiction, everything that's wrong with the bible is either a hyperbole, symbolic, or not to be taken literally. I will never quote or respond to a quote from the bible again. [/quote]
chris,

we are all willing to help you here if you have questions or problems w/ the bible. i don't think "MichaelFilo" meant to be critical or insulting. personally, i hope that you will comment more on the bible so we can help each other learn more about it. if we appear somewhat defensive that is b/c you arrived here in a somewhat confrontational manner (w/ the "IQ of a carrot" remark and all), but we still wish to treat you w/ charity and answer your questions if you have a genuine intent to learn.

may God Bless You,
phatcatholic

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Dave' date='Jul 23 2004, 12:50 PM'] Before I begin, please know that this is JUST a hypothetical question about a hypothetical situation. I never participated in any of the activities described below, nor do I know anyone who ever has.

I know that to seriously disfigure or mutilate yourself would be mortally sinful. In fact, that's basically how the late Fr. John Hardon defines mutilation -- an action that deprives someone of part of their body or seriously disfigures it.

Ok, here's the situation ... suppose you and your friends decided to act crazy like the guys on "Jackass." Suppose you decided to give yourself a bloody nose or prick your finger with a needle or something. Would such things be mortally sinful? I mean, although it would be stupid to do them, it's not like y'all would be trying to destroy or seriously disfigure parts of your body. [/quote]
Probably not, because the result is not something serious.
However there are people who self mutilate because they are in extreme emotional pain, and need to have some sense of control. There are also people who do it to explore the limits of their bodies, hang themselves by hooks etc. It used to be these people were kept in insane asylums, now they are featured on reality shows. Then there are people who do extreme things in remorse for serious sin, like the people in the Philiphines that get crucified every year as a penance.
Intention is the key.

[DancesforLove]

I've tried and though about suicide before. I repented and have moved on, there is no more that I can say about it. It is not right, I was wrong for doing it but I don't necessarily blame the person doing it, some people just truly need help and they no other way to release pain, I see at as a cry for help.

[picchick]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jul 23 2004, 01:32 PM'] Not sure why anyone would want to hurt themselves. I have never gone through anything like that and can't claim to understand it. But damaging the body would be sinful. And preposly doing it like picking the nose with a needle would be sinful in my mind. However if someone wants to hurt them selves I would say that it is less a sin than a mental disorder which needs real help. [/quote]
I heard that hurting yourself is a mortal sin. Your body is a temple of the holy spirit. To hurt yourself in someway like cutting or scarring would be "descrating" that temple.

Sometimes it can be hard though. Sometimes pain inside might be too much. For these situations I really have no clue if it would be one or not. I think that the person should get help and talk to someone. It is really serious.


To answer your question, the person doesn't feel the pain of the "hurting themselves." It is more of a release of emotion. It still does not make it right and they should really find some help though.

Edited July 24, 2004 by picchick