A Question On Final Theosis

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Madonna' date='Aug 11 2004, 10:32 AM'] That is absolutely beautiful and it makes sense. Thank you. [/quote]
Thank you for the insightful and probing questions, for as St. Augustine said, "Credo ut intelligam, intelligo ut credam."

God bless,
Todd

[kateri05]

Just so everyone knows (not that your answers haven't been amazingly impressive, Todd! ) but Christopher West's presentation on Eschatalogical Man, from the Pope's discussion of the same, from the Theology of the Body, talks about this EXACT issue. How we are not complete, in a sense, in heaven, not because we are not experiencing the glory and grace of God, but because we are a physical and spiritual being and as such, are lacking if we have one without the other. THe Holy Father goes so far as to say that a soul without a body is a freak, or a monster, because it is disconnected. Of course, that doesnt mean heaven is ugly or anything... its just the idea. listen to the tape, read the book, it makes beautiful wonderful sense, i promise!

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='kateri05' date='Aug 11 2004, 03:35 PM'] Just so everyone knows (not that your answers haven't been amazingly impressive, Todd!  ) but Christopher West's presentation on Eschatalogical Man, from the Pope's discussion of the same, from the Theology of the Body, talks about this EXACT issue.  How we are not complete, in a sense, in heaven, not because we are not experiencing the glory and grace of God, but because we are a physical and spiritual being and as such, are lacking if we have one without the other.  THe Holy Father goes so far as to say that a soul without a body is a freak, or a monster, because it is disconnected.  Of course, that doesnt mean heaven is ugly or anything... its just the idea.  listen to the tape, read the book, it makes beautiful wonderful sense, i promise! [/quote]
I love blessed Kateri Tekakwitha (and the Theology of the Body). :hearts:

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kateri05' date='Aug 11 2004, 01:35 PM'] Just so everyone knows (not that your answers haven't been amazingly impressive, Todd!  ) but Christopher West's presentation on Eschatalogical Man, from the Pope's discussion of the same, from the Theology of the Body, talks about this EXACT issue.  How we are not complete, in a sense, in heaven, not because we are not experiencing the glory and grace of God, but because we are a physical and spiritual being and as such, are lacking if we have one without the other.  THe Holy Father goes so far as to say that a soul without a body is a freak, or a monster, because it is disconnected.  Of course, that doesnt mean heaven is ugly or anything... its just the idea.  listen to the tape, read the book, it makes beautiful wonderful sense, i promise! [/quote]
Thanks for your post, and I agree, the Pope's teachings on the theology of the body are impressive. As early as the 1980s I was heavily influenced by the theology of St. Irenaeus, who insisted that man is not his soul alone, nor is he his body alone, but only when the two are combined as one living being is that truly man, and of course St. Irenaeus would add that the indwelling Holy Spirit is necessary as well, for it is the divine vivifying principle that gives man, body and soul, eternal life. This focus on the salvation of the whole man, body and soul, is why the Church, although influenced by Platonism, has never fully assimilated Platonism into her theology.

kateri05, thanks again for your great post.

God bless,
Todd

Edited August 11, 2004 by Apotheoun

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Aug 11 2004, 04:08 PM'] Thanks for your post, and I agree, the Pope's teachings on the theology of the body are impressive. As early as the 1980s I was heavily influenced by the theology of St. Irenaeus, who insisted that man is not his soul alone, nor is he his body alone, but only when the two are combined as one living being is that truly man, and of course St. Irenaeus would add that the indwelling Holy Spirit is necessary as well, for it is the divine vivifying principle that gives man, body and soul, eternal life. This focus on the salvation of the whole man, body and soul, is why the Church, although influenced by Platonism, has never fully assimilated Platonism into her theology.

kateri05, thanks again for your great post.

God bless,
Todd [/quote]
Remember some thread recently where tripartite anthropology was discussed? I recommended a book by de Lubac called "Theology in History". He has a radically facinating discussion on the relation between platonism, Pauline anthropology, patristic anthropologies, and such things. The conclusions are not what one would expect. I believe the influence of Platonism on such things is too often exaggerated and the truly unique (and most profound) elements of the Christian "philosophy" are overlooked.

Peace.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 11 2004, 02:24 PM'] Remember some thread recently where tripartite anthropology was discussed? I recommended a book by de Lubac called "Theology in History". He has a radically facinating discussion on the relation between platonism, Pauline anthropology, patristic anthropologies, and such things. The conclusions are not what one would expect. I believe the influence of Platonism on such things is too often exaggerated and the truly unique (and most profound) elements of the Christian "philosophy" are overlooked.

Peace. [/quote]
Yes, I remember that thread. I posted about St. Ireneaus' teaching in it.

Here's the thread: [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=17220"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=17220[/url]

God bless,
Todd

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Aug 11 2004, 04:47 PM'] Yes, I remember that thread. I posted about St. Ireneaus' teaching in it.

Here's the thread: [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=17220"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=17220[/url]

God bless,
Todd [/quote]
ahh, yessum. I had lost touch with that thread. thanks.

[kateri05]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 11 2004, 03:43 PM'] I love blessed Kateri Tekakwitha (and the Theology of the Body). :hearts: [/quote]
:wub: aww, thanks, i do too that's why she's my Confirmation saint/patronness... of course, considerin i have a vocation to marriage, maybe i should have thought harder back in 8th grade... BUT, as Christopher West taught me, her celibacy for the kingdom images the nupital meaning of marriage and vice versa so three cheers for the final marriage of the lamb!!

[kateri05]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Aug 11 2004, 04:08 PM']
kateri05, thanks again for your great post.

[/quote]
coming from you, Todd, that means quite a lot thank YOU and esp for all the wonderful, helpful posts you have!

much love in Christ!

[Guest JeffCR07]

cool, you guys have answered all of my questions, thanks a ton!

[phatcatholic]

good stuff, good stuff