JP2Iloveyou Posted September 12, 2003 Posted September 12, 2003 This is for anyone to participate in. Read John 21: 11. It says Simon Peter dragged 153 fish to shore. This is different from the first time Christ told Peter to cast his nets on the other side of his boat in that it gives an exact number of fish caught. Also, the net does not tear. In Luke 5, the net tears and there is no specific number given. This is seen as a sign of who will get into heaven. St. Augustine gave a homily on this passage from John. What he came up with is nothing short of amazing. Now, here's the math lesson. There are how many commandment? Ok, got that? Now, we can't keep the commandments on our own right? Right. So, we need some help. We get this help in the sacraments. There are how many sacraments? Got that. Now add them together. (Number of commandments + number of sacraments=answer.) Now, take those numbers and add them together. (1+2+3+4...+previous answer=x). See what you come up with. Now, compare that to the number given in John 21. Have fun.
skuba steve Posted September 14, 2003 Posted September 14, 2003 how does a story about catching fish speak about people getting into heaven??? they were just fishing. Will 153 people get into heaven?
JP2Iloveyou Posted September 14, 2003 Author Posted September 14, 2003 how does a story about catching fish speak about people getting into heaven??? they were just fishing. Will 153 people get into heaven? No, it doesn't mean 153 people will get into heaven. John's Gospel differs greatly from Mathew, Mark, and Luke in that it is much more symbolic. There are many examples of this which I can't get into right now. Anyway, the number 153 is a symbol of how you get to heaven. There are Ten Commandments. In Catholicism, there are seven Sacraments. When you add those numbers together, you get 17. Now, when you take 1+2+3+4+...+17, you get 153. Now, you can write that off as just a coincidence, but why would John take the time to say that there were 153 fish that were caught if he wasn't trying to tell us something? I mean, think about it. Here's John, going through his Gospel, telling about the life of Christ, then he says, "Oh, by the way, they caught 153 fish." Then he continues on . The number is meant to say that those who keep the commandments and use the sacraments, are those who will get into heaven. This is the combination of grace, faith, and works that has been discussed on here quite frequently. We do good works by not breaking the Commandments. We receive grace through the sacraments, and we clearly must have faith to even approach the sacraments.
skuba steve Posted September 15, 2003 Posted September 15, 2003 maybe he wanted to say that by listening to Jesus they caught a lot of fish. 153 is a lot of fish. I found a pen once that was worth a lot of money... i didn't say to my mates "i found a pen and it's worth a lot" i said, "i found a pen worth five hundred bucks!" i used an exact number to emphasise how large the value actually was.... but if you think about that symbolically, the pen is worth 500 dollars.. 5+0+0=5 there are 5 speakers in my dolby surround sound dvd thingy, maybe got wants me to put the pen into the dvd player. just a thought.... Please don't tell me I take the bible out of context anymore...
Jake Huether Posted September 15, 2003 Posted September 15, 2003 But 153. Why would he be so specific!? Wouldn't he say more like, 155 or 150 (something more round). But he is specific.!
Aloysius Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 this is just one of those cooool little love letters God sends to us in numbers. Don't expect it to be a point in which a protestant accepts or nothing. Just like how there are 7 more books in the Catholic Bible, and 7 means fulfillment in Biblical numbers. It's just a cool little thing that i believe came to be through God's providence to tell us that we got the right Church. anyway, i heard once that the letter values of the number 153 spell out God Saves or somethin cool like that in the original languages. The Scriptures go SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO deep, how could they not have been Divinely inspired? (if they are inspired, that means the Catholic Church infallibly declared the right 27 books of the NT) anyway, YAY for cool number things that no one else understands!
skuba steve Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 don't you think that's a bit silly???? seriously.... it's just numbers.... you can make any number mean anything you like... the first pope apparently was saint peter and the first person to be thrown from heaven was lucifer... maybe peter was an incarnation of satan... see what i mean, this is so childish....
Aloysius Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 that's why it's not good 4 arguments, cause it really has no effect. i just belive God's providence left us cool little stuff like that. Plus, i think St. John intended the number to mean "God Saves" although im not sure about the whole sacrament/commandment thing, i do think it has merit because it is the way the early Church was interpretting it (St. Augustine) God's providence made 7 extra books in the Catholic Bible so we could be like, wow, look how cool this is, we have the complete Bible. At least thats what i think. It just supplements my faith in the Church, it doesn't give me faith, and it can't convince you of anything. It really has no merit at all. I just think its cool :P
skuba steve Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 ok.... you can believe what you like.... but from now on, You have no right to tell me that my interpretation of the bible is incorrect.
Aloysius Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 ok.... you can believe what you like.... but from now on, You have no right to tell me that my interpretation of the bible is incorrect. why not? if we have two conflicting interpretations of the Bible, only one can be true. So, we go to the publisher of the Book. The publisher tells me what the Auther, God, meant. See, the publisher had to ask the Author which books He wrote in the first place, and the publisher came up with 73 Books. Without this publisher, these books would not have been known. So it makes sense, that we go to the publisher who already found out which books were written by the Author to find out what exactly the Author meant. so, yeah, i can tell you your interpretation of the Bible is wrong if it contradicts what the Bible's publisher says the Author meant by it. B)
skuba steve Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 the bible's publisher said that they caught fish. how is that contradicting him?
Aloysius Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 it's not the fish thing is just a sample verse. Let's talk matters of faith/morals. The Bible can sometimes be interpreted differently on things that matter. Here are some examples. For instance, contraception. scripture doesn't specifically say it is wrong, but the publisher of scripture says that all these verses (http://scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html) intertwined with everything in the Bible and tradition were intended by God to teach us that contraception is wrong. So that's an example of a matter of morals. A matter of faith. How about the Holy Eucharist. you could interpret scripture to be metaphorical when it says "this is my Body" but the publisher of the Bible tells me that all these verses (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html) intertwined with the whole Bible and tradition were intended by God to teach us that The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
skuba steve Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 that's why my church is different to yours... we take the bible literaly. We don't search out hidden meanings or symbolism. If you look at Jesus' teachings, you'll see that he always explained anything that had a metaphorical meaning after he said it.. same God that wrote the rest of the bible... and i know that some things aren't specifically dealt with in the bible... eg: contraception, masturbation, bank robberies... but it all comes down to this: Love God. Love Others. You can find the answer to anything in those two commandments. It's so easy. So even stupid ppl like me can understand and be loved by God
ironmonk Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 St. Augustine gave a homily on this passage from John. What he came up with is nothing short of amazing. Which homily? God Bless, ironmonk
cmotherofpirl Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 that's why my church is different to yours... we take the bible literaly. We don't search out hidden meanings or symbolism. If you look at Jesus' teachings, you'll see that he always explained anything that had a metaphorical meaning after he said it.. same God that wrote the rest of the bible... and i know that some things aren't specifically dealt with in the bible... eg: contraception, masturbation, bank robberies... but it all comes down to this: Love God. Love Others. You can find the answer to anything in those two commandments. It's so easy. So even stupid ppl like me can understand and be loved by God You only take the parts of the Bible you like literally. If you really did you would take the Gospel of John literally which, of course, you do not. You pick out the parts that agree with your preconcieved notions.
ICTHUS Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 that's why my church is different to yours... we take the bible literaly. Heh heh heh... Does anyone else see the irony in Steves statement? "I go to a protestant church where they take the Bible literally" LOL Read John 6:48-68
skuba steve Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 go ahead... laugh at me... like little children... for you must become like a child to enter the kingdom of heaven... or maybe you could find a deeper meaning to that for me in you're historical documents... Maybe it means we have to eat boogers to get into heaven??? i dunno... i'm sure Jesus didn't mean it literally... why would anything be so easy to understand????
cmotherofpirl Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 Steve we are to become little children , in being tractable and obedient. However we are also to be as wise as serpents, so we use our brains as well as our heart. Of course Jesus meant it literally. Why do you think all those people walked away? Because it was a symbol? Do you think those christian martyrs died for a symbol, for a piece of bread? would you die for a piece of bread? If you are gonna take the Bible literally, and Catholic DO, you take it all literally, unless it says otherwise. Jesus said Take and EAT. "This is my body" , "THis is my blood" Do THIS in remembrance (anamasis) of me. THe Church and all christians have taken this literally for 2000 years.
skuba steve Posted September 16, 2003 Posted September 16, 2003 Of course Jesus meant it literally. Why do you think all those people walked away?Because they were unable to accept what Jesus said in faith. They wanted to see tangible proof and as far as they knew, the scriptures to that day provided them with it. Do you think those christian martyrs died for a symbol, for a piece of bread? More people are being martyred for Christ at present than ever before. They die because of their incredible love for God. would you die for a piece of bread? Nup... but many poor people in England who stole bread to feed their hunger were sent to Australia to be punished... and that's why people live here now, so i think that there is a place for penalties due to pieces of bread in theis world.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now