Using The Lord's Name In Vain.

[MichaelFilo]

I hav ealways wondered, not using God's name in vain was an explicitlly stated as a commandment and we were told to avoid doing it. However, what is vain in this sense? A certain Jewish site claimed saying "Alleluia" outside of Church is vain. However, this is because of the actual word, and what i means. However, that isn't the point. I just wanted to know, what is and isn't vain. Say, if I said God bless, without really meaning it, is that in vain? How about using God's name, not in a derogatory statement, but a statement that doesn't serve God's name due respect (ex. Oh my God!).

Thanks in advance,

God bless,

Mikey

[musturde]

In Lebanon and the Middle East they say "Oh God" ("Ya Allah") or "ya AdraH" "Oh Mary" all the time. It's not meant in a bad way because they have a thing for saying the name of a person they love like when they're hurt and because they intentionally mean it like Oh God help us. They say God's name when they laugh or practicly through anything but not badly. There is, however, a line they dont cross that would be using it in vain.

[musturde]

It counts on the culture. In America you cant just say "Oh God". For some reason, unless you complete the sentence, it's rude. It's just the culture of here. Just like saying something in the Middle east that's considered bad, isnt considered bad here. For example: A vulgar saying in the Middle East is "Burn your religion". Here people would just stare if you said that to them. In Arabic, when someones in a grumpy mood when they wake up someone would say "Sabbah Allah" which would mean speak to God. In english this translates to "Swimming God". There are different ways different cultures take God's name in vain.

[musturde]

I missinterpreted ur post, I thought u said Saying alleluia outside of Church was okay to the Jewish people... Oh well maybe the posts somehow helped anywayz.

[musturde]

The Jewish person who wrote that may either be very traditional or this is how all of them interpret it. Not how we American Catholics do. You can say "Praise God" or "God help me" but I dont think you can just say "Oh God" here. You can not have a beaver dam before his name either.

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='musturde' date='Aug 14 2004, 12:41 PM'] In Lebanon and the Middle East they say "Oh God" ("Ya Allah") or "ya AdraH" "Oh Mary" all the time. It's not meant in a bad way because they have a thing for saying the name of a person they love like when they're hurt and because they intentionally mean it like Oh God help us. They say God's name when they laugh or practicly through anything but not badly. There is, however, a line they dont cross that would be using it in vain. [/quote]
I speak arabic, however, my mother taught me this was vain, and so the Church teaches it there. However, your posts have been insightful. Thank you for them.

God bless,

Mikey

[amarkich]

Actually, it does not depend on the culture. Using God's name in vain is a mortal sin. Anytime one uses the name of God in vain, i.e., uses God's name in a way which is not addressing Him in a prayer or referencing Him respectfully, it is breaking this Commandment. It is a mortal sin to use God's name in vain, period. There are some cases where the degree might be lessened by habit, but this is not something that is an excuse for continuing the practice; first, the one who has the habit must be attempting to stop doing it, and second, the person cannot presume God's mercy and treat the sin as a venial sin (simply because he thinks his habitual nature lessens the value); we cannot presume God's mercy. If someone uses God's name in vain, it is a moral sin and must be treated as such (go to Confession and tell the sin and the number of times it was committed; and, you cannot receive Communion without going to Confession). Anything else is presuming God's mercy. Any good examination of conscience has this listed as a mortal sin (some will say "deliberately" using God's name in vain, which is just an iffy way of avoiding the truth--that the act of using God's name in vain is grave matter). Anyone who has such irreverence for the name of God so as to not even include it in an examination of conscience is despicable. In any event, the website you were reading is correct. Using religious terms or terms used to honor or worship God outside of their proper purpose is a sin, but it is not a mortal sin unless it is the name of God Himself. Using irreverently the name of a Saint or using other terms which should be used to honor God is a venial sin.

[MichaelFilo]

Alleluia comes from Hallelujah which has Gods name in Hebrew in there. So singing that out loud, say, outside of Church is wrong? I mean, I like singing Church music outside Church, however, if this is a problem, I am going to confession in 2 hours so I can go confess and try to stop.

Thanks in advance,

God bless,

Mikey

[musturde]

Michael Filo, what r ur backgrounds?

I dont think it is a sin to say Ya allah in arabic cuz ur asking him for help or laughing in his name. I say this cuz I went to a hermit who ev1 thinks is gunna be a saint and we asked him kuz I heard people saying it all the time. He said in here they like saying the name of people they love. They do it out of love not out of hate. Now this dude was a very holy man who taught theology.

[amarkich]

If you are singing it in a prayerful way, e.g., if you are listening to Gregorian Chant and are singing along with the monks, this is certainly not being irreverent. Also, if you are saying something that you do not recognize to have God's name in it, e.g., Alleluia or, in Latin, Deus, which means God, then that is not using God's name in vain, especially if you are singing church music either for practice or simply because you are listening to it. This is not being used in vain; to use God's name in vain, one must be using it in an irreverent manner (if you are idly singing, that could be irreverent). God bless.

[musturde]

People laughed at me when I told them this, not because they thought I was reppin the Church but because they didnt think what I said was true. Christians in Lebanon like to rep their Christianity although now the culture of Death is eating it just like it's eating us.

[MichaelFilo]

I'm an Iraqi... and Lebanon has sold into the culture of death, mostly. The country side and all is still befitting of it's title "Little Europe". However, not like today's Europe. The hills each have the most majestic statues on top of them, or so I heard. However, these will soon be removed with the increase of Islam and decrease of Christianity there. So either it's heading towards the culture of death, or it's going to become Islamic.

"Ya Allah" literally means "the God". This makes no sense in English. However, it's an interjection like "oh my God". It is therefore vain, if "oh my God" is vain.

And, so idly singing would be like when I'm feeling particularly spiritual, and I start singing to myself, and maybe I sing the "Alleliua" to myself. I'll try to stop that. Thank you.

God bless,

Mikey

[musturde]

Nah, the muslims didnt do that, the muslims value Gods name probably more than we do here or in Lebanon. Perhaps they don't say God's name a lot in Iraq. In lebanon it may be different. We say "Ya Emmih" Which mean "Oh Mom" whenever we feel in pain. We say it in love. I've asked like soo many people, trust me, Lebanon respects Christianity more than Europe an U.S combined. If anything America is far more into the Culture than Lebanon is.

btw: I've never been to Iraq, are there many maronite Churches there? If not what kind of Rite is therE?

[MichaelFilo]

Chaldean ( I was baptized in this ) and Syriac. However, there maybe one more.

I know there are faithful there, and muslims have respect for God ( and the Blessed Virgin ). However, I watch lebanese TV channels, it looks like early 1990's stuff. It's getting there. I'm saying, it may change alot. However, the large presence of Islam there may calm any movement towards the culture of death. Islam, in itself, at least respects human life pre-birth.

Anyways, thats that. Ty again. I want to say I agree it could be out of love, but it's also used when someone is frustrated, or angry. Maybe I think so because the people of Iraq (Baghdad, I should say, I can't speak for the whole country) did use God's name in vain alot. Maybe it isn't so in Lebanan. (The masses there are very beautiful, but that is a side note.)

God bless,

Mikey

[musturde]

"The country side and all is still befitting of it's title "Little Europe". However, not like today's Europe. The hills each have the most majestic statues on top of them, or so I heard."

Like every place u go in lebanon like every 5 miles or less u see like something emplanted in the side of the rode with small statues and I think a candle. The holy people of Lebanon are not in this culture. The people who study theology arent in a heckhole or someone mighta said something, it's been like this for quite some time. There's a recent saint who died 1999, and from what I've heard he hasnt gone against this, in fact I'm sure he was all for it, it's how we intend it that's not bad. The said isnt yet a saint nor blessed but his tomb has been glowing and my moms cuz get healed from going to his tomb.

[picchick]

I was taught that you take the Lord's name in vain when you use it as an interjection. (oh my G**). If you are using it in a prayer (Oh my God, come to my assistance"or even in a time of distress when you call upon him for help.) then it is not taking God's name in vain.

I sing Church songs out of Church all the time. Singing is praying. I listen to Ave Maria, Gregorian Chant and other songs like that. If we didn't then what good music is there to listen to that would uplift our minds to God?

"If you are singing it in a prayerful way, e.g., if you are listening to Gregorian Chant and are singing along with the monks, this is certainly not being irreverent. Also, if you are saying something that you do not recognize to have God's name in it, e.g., Alleluia or, in Latin, Deus, which means God, then that is not using God's name in vain, especially if you are singing church music either for practice or simply because you are listening to it. This is not being used in vain; to use God's name in vain, one must be using it in an irreverent manner (if you are idly singing, that could be irreverent). God bless."--Amarkich

Exactly.
God Bless,
meg

[MichaelFilo]

Heh, those saints in our Arabic lands. My aunt got her prayer answered after she slept in the cave of a saint, however, he was an orthodox saint. Who knows. Anyways, Lebanon has Baptists doesn't it? I've heard something like that. This is getting totally off topic .

God bless,

Mikey

[musturde]

Orthodox saints are allowed to be prayed to by us (according to my teacher). They pray to our saints too maybe. Lebanon may have some baptists but not many. We are mostly maronite Catholic. How bout you, what rite are u?

[MichaelFilo]

Baptized Chaldean, I am Roman Catholic however.

We have Anglicans there in Iraq (very few) from the European country occuption of the Arabic countries.

I didn't know that about Orthodox saints (Iraq is pretty much split with 49% Catholics and 49% Catholics, with possibly about 2 percent Anglicans). I am sure their canonization is valid, but is it to be accepted by Catholics? I would like a second opinion before I pray to any Orthodox saints (Cause you know, don't want to do something wrong like that ).

In your maronite Churches, do they use the anceint Aramic language, or not? I know the Syriac Church uses some Aramiac. I don't remember going to a Chaldean mass however.

God bless,

Mikey

[curtins]

Ok-

In Vein means- without result

so if you say God's name without trying to get a result ie- praying to him for forgivness, thanking him, asking him for sumthing- etc

its a sin

now in terms of veinial or mortal- if u do it like sub consiously without thinking- its a veinial sin- or if its in a habit- thats not to say you dont try and break the habit

if u say it fully agknowledging its rong- then its a mortal sin.


go here- [url="http://www.catholic.org/frz/examen/examen_bottom.htm"]http://www.catholic.org/frz/examen/examen_bottom.htm[/url]

look under the 2nd commandment for both mortal and veinial sins- its a good resource overall actually