Using The Lord's Name In Vain.

[MichaelFilo]

Wow, thank you. I'll add it to my favorites, I think. this is good stuff.

Thanks again

God bless,

Mikey

[musturde]

"In your maronite Churches, do they use the anceint Aramic language, or not? I know the Syriac Church uses some Aramiac. I don't remember going to a Chaldean mass however."

Yep, the Maronites do most of it in Aramaic. I think your the Chaldean Church does it too. I'm Melkite but I wanna be Maronite. I dont remember going to a Melkite Mass. I've read up about it but not too much.

[cmotherofpirl]

Saints of the Eastern Catholic Churches [orthodox]are accepted by the Western Catholic Church up until the schism. Once we split they lost the ability to canonize Saints.

[MorphRC]

I swear theres something in the Catechism on this. But I cant find it.

[Maddalena]

Examples:

Not using His name in vain:
You just witnessed a car accident, and you say "Oh, my God, please don't let them die."

Using His name in vain:
You just noticed a cute new dress, and you say, "Oh, my [i]God[/i], that is the [i]cutest[/i] dress!"

:B Huzzah.

Edited August 15, 2004 by Maddalena

[musturde]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Aug 14 2004, 09:56 PM'] Saints of the Eastern Catholic Churches [orthodox]are accepted by the Western Catholic Church up until the schism. Once we split they lost the ability to canonize Saints. [/quote]
Would it be a sin to pray to one of the more recent one's?

[MichaelFilo]

I guess we have All saints day to pray to all the deceased who went before us into the kingdom of heaven. I'm not sure if it is a sin, they just aren't saints, and therefore we can't be sure if they are in heaven or not.

God bless,

Mikey

[cmotherofpirl]

We can ask those who have gone before us to pray for us.
If they are in heaven or purgatory they can respond and intercede for us.

[picchick]

My mom use to say that if they are in heaven then they are a saint because they made to heaven.

If they made it to purgatory then they are going to be saints because the door from purgatory leads to heaven.


I always ask the intercession of people in heaven and in purgatory. Then I pray for the people in purgatory so that when they get out they can also pray for me.

[musturde]

A Saint is a person in heaven, the Church canonizes saints that we show us an example of what life we should live. The Orthodox have saints, I'm sure we can pray to most of them.

[qfnol31]

I know I can ask for my sister's intercession (she was Baptized and died a few days later as a baby, so I know for a fact she's in Heaven.) This idea came from St. Joseph of Copertino.

As for cursing and using the Lord's name in vain, the Baltimore Catechism talks about it some while discussing the Second Commandment. I think it says both are a sin, though obviously using God's name in vain is worse.

[Justified Saint]

What about using such phrases in the context of fictional dialogue and conversation?

Chesterton seems to use them often in his fiction.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='musturde' date='Aug 14 2004, 12:56 PM'] The Jewish person who wrote that may either be very traditional or this is how all of them interpret it. Not how we American Catholics do. You can say "Praise God" or "God help me" but I dont think you can just say "Oh God" here. You can not have a beaver dam before his name either. [/quote]
Nor after.

If its in a prayerful fashion "God help me" seriously meant then of course its not a sin. I have always found taking the Lord's name in vain (and this I was always taught meant anything outside of prayer) to be wrong--for it to be mortal sin, of course, a person must know its wrong. I'm afraid some people don't understand the gravity because they were raised in homes where this kind of language was the norm. I personally have asked people not to take the Lord's name in vain in my home. I have a few friends who still tend to say "Oh my God" fairly often, but on the whole they know not to do so around me (one even apologizes every time she says it in my presence lol). When I was a kid I even scolded my cousins. I personally find taking the Lord's name in vain more offensive than use of other vulgarities or crude speech (including the F-bomb).

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='musturde' date='Aug 15 2004, 06:38 PM'] A Saint is a person in heaven, the Church canonizes saints that we show us an example of what life we should live. The Orthodox have saints, I'm sure we can pray to most of them. [/quote]
We can pray to those persons who are recognized as saints by the Catholic Church, and this includes those persons who have been accepted as saints by the Eastern (Byzantine) Rite Churches that are in communion with the Pope.

So, as a general rule, those persons canonized by the various autocephalous Eastern Orthodox Churches who are not recognized as saints by any Eastern Rite Catholic Churches, which of course are in communion with Rome, should not be venerated as saints by either Roman Rite Catholics or Byzantine Rite Catholics.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Aug 14 2004, 01:18 PM'] I hav ealways wondered, not using God's name in vain was an explicitlly stated as a commandment and we were told to avoid doing it. However, what is vain in this sense? A certain Jewish site claimed saying "Alleluia" outside of Church is vain. However, this is because of the actual word, and what i means. However, that isn't the point. I just wanted to know, what is and isn't vain. Say, if I said God bless, without really meaning it, is that in vain? How about using God's name, not in a derogatory statement, but a statement that doesn't serve God's name due respect (ex. Oh my God!).

Thanks in advance,

God bless,

Mikey [/quote]
In the Old Testament times, if one person even said "Oh God", "Oh my God" or just "God", they would be killed.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[cmotherofpirl]

Not exactly. You could refer to God, you just couldn't use His proper name.

I say "Oh, my God" and "dear God" and I am not taking His name in vain.
I am praying.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Aug 17 2004, 10:13 AM'] Not exactly. You could refer to God, you just couldn't use His proper name.

I say "Oh, my God" and "dear God" and I am not taking His name in vain.
I am praying. [/quote]
If they weren't praying to God... they got put to death.

Saying it in astonishment or dismay they were put to death.... that is what I'm talking about.

Saying it in astonishment or dismay is taking the Lord's name in vain.

[cmotherofpirl]

Astonish and dismay are not sinful. Calling upon God in either situation is not a sin.
Sin requires intention.

Edited August 17, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[ironmonk]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Aug 17 2004, 12:15 PM'] Astonish and dismay are not sinful. Calling upon God in either situation is not a sin.
Sin requirees intention. [/quote]
Sin does not require intention.

Sin requires doing [b][u]anything [/u][/b]God said not to, or not doing what God said to do. [u][b]All [/b][/u]wrongdoing is sin (1 John 5:17).

Intention is difference between mortal and venial sins. We still get punished for sinning and not knowing it was a sin, only punished lightly (St. Luke 12:48). An adult has a responsibility to know what is a sin, and what is not... ignorance as an adult is not a 100% excuse, for if we are ignorant in this day and age, it is because of our own fault (in most cases).

There is a fact and that fact is that in the OT times to say "God" in astonishment or dismay was (and is) taking the Lord's name in vain. (i.e. when something goes wrong, instead of saying 'carp' someone says "God" in the same context; it is taking the Lord's name in vain)


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited August 17, 2004 by ironmonk

[cmotherofpirl]

WE are not in OT times.

I see no commandment that I cannot call on God in whatever manner I choose.

We are to pray, always. So, if in the course of the day, I see something that dismays or astonishes me and I wish to discuss it with God or start a quick prayer to Him with His name, I will. That is not a sin.