MC Just Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote name='Budge' date='Aug 16 2004, 06:33 PM'] Im talking economically. I am not a socialist. American right now as richest nation gives the most aid to the impoverished world. Stripping our wealth away helps no one else. [/quote] I highly disagree... You know at the democratic convention Kerry was talking about america being "The beacon of light in the dark world" That's BS The church is the beacon of light in the dark world not some "put politics on pedastle" nation..
Budge Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote]QUOTE (Budge @ Aug 16 2004, 06:33 PM) Im talking economically. I am not a socialist. American right now as richest nation gives the most aid to the impoverished world. Stripping our wealth away helps no one else. I highly disagree... You know at the democratic convention Kerry was talking about america being "The beacon of light in the dark world" That's BS The church is the beacon of light in the dark world not some "put politics on pedastle" nation.. [/quote] Well Kerry is Commie just like the United Nations. So we are supposed to let the Catholic church REDISTRIBUTE the wealth? Ah forget it.
Sammy Blaze Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 19 2004, 09:11 AM'] I highly disagree... You know at the democratic convention Kerry was talking about america being "The beacon of light in the dark world" That's BS The church is the beacon of light in the dark world not some "put politics on pedastle" nation.. [/quote] in fairness homey, I'm sure President Bush has used the same symbolism in some of his speeches about the War of Terrorism, State of the Union etc..... Godbless ya bro ~S.
Good Friday Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote name='Sammy Blaze']I'm sure President Bush has used the same symbolism in some of his speeches about the War of Terrorism, State of the Union etc.....[/quote] In fact, Dubya even went so far as to say, [url="http://www.gopusa.com/bush/2002/radio_0831.shtml"]"our nation is the greatest force for good in history."[/url] Sounds a lot like "a beacon of light in a dark world" to me, but it must be okay since he's Republican.
Crusader_4 Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 Well... I must say as a Canadian i find the American Health care system very troubling. Although Bush would not be my # 1 Candidate from the Republican party (I like Powell a lot more...altho he will never run) i will support him. Kerrys aka Flip Flop King's social stances on Abortion, Faith, liberalism (the list goes on) show me that he cannot lead the greatest superpower in the world. Also as a strong Catholic i feel that voting for him would be morally irresponsible and in my case perhaps even a mortal sin. I for example am anti-union however i think that there needs to still be some sort of FAIR social net for the unemployed because quite often these situations are out of the individuals control. Well i guess i am a strong Catholic -republican (notice the republican second...i let my faith deciede who i am voting for) if i was in a state where the democrat was pro life and the republican wasnt i would vote democrat. anyway my .02 cents. -Will
Good Friday Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 Do you realize that the necessity of unions has been taught by Pope Leo XIII, Bl. Pope John XXIII and Pope John Paul II? Does that matter?
MC Just Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 Even if bush has said anything, i still dont agree with it.. I only agree with bush because of his pro-life stance and the Fact that our "HOLY FATHER" chooses bush over Kerry....
Good Friday Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 Our Holy Father didn't choose any candidate, and to make such a statement is really absurd. One can make an argument from Catholic moral teaching that Catholics cannot, under any circumstances, vote for Kerry; one cannot, however, make an argument that the Pope has endorsed any candidate. I'm sure you have no proof of this endorsement, since it didn't happen. I think it's possible to demonstrate from Catholic moral teaching why we can't vote for Kerry without the Pope having a Bush/Cheney '04 bumpersticker on the Popemobile.
MC Just Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 ok I'm not gonna bother debating this prince of fickle..
Laudate_Dominum Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 I'm a staunch intergalactic neo-marxist. I can't vote because to do so would go against every fiber of my being. alright, I think this is a sign that I need to finally sleep after being up all night.. actually I am not any party, I just vote for the coolest person. definitely not Kerry!
dUSt Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote name='Budge' date='Aug 18 2004, 07:00 PM'] No we should let our people starve and share all our food with everyone. Then we after handing all our money to the UN to redistribute the wealth to the impoverished nations, we should clean out all our grocery stores, and send the food overseas too, we can send them all our farmers while we are at it too. ...(sarcastic) [/quote] My points weren't even about giving away money. It was about allowing people in other countries to have jobs that would target American consumers--outsourcing. Giving away money and providing opportunities for people to work are two completely different things. I'm not against allowing other countries to work, even if it does take away potential jobs for Americans. Americans have better opportunities to live comfortably than any other nation I can think of--but they have to be willing to work--which unfortunately, a lot of Americans are unwilling to do.
Iacobus Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 dUSt, I liked the points you brought up about out sourcing. *American First?* But my biggest issue with it is that when they do it for profit. They can, IMHO, out source all they want just so long as they pay the same as they would in the US. I don't like greed motivited outsourcing and that is a large factor in most of it. One of the things IL, my states has started to do, is refused to work with companies, no matter the cost, who locate in tax havens (Cayman Bach, etc), for State funded projects. Seems fair to me, don't want to pay US taxes, don't get the US Tax moeny back. That is my biggest gribe about osing. MC Just, Good Friday was right. Vatican II and a good number of popes have thaught that Unions were important parts of a capitilist society. All workers should have the right to uninoize, not be punished for doing so, and should be allowed to strike and express grevinces. The Holy Father hasn't and will not endorse a person for the White House. Last time he meet with Bush, the meeting Bush hyped up to the K Of C this month, JPII gave him some scalding criticism about Iraq. If the pope endorsed a person for the White House, it wouldn't be Bush or Kerry. Be realistic. Neither truly reflect the Church. As to the speechs Kerry and Bush made they are falling into the old patterns the pilgrims set. Bardford (I think) said that Mass. Bay Conly was to be "a city on a hill, a new zion, a light for the world." The idea that America should be a model, a guide, a beacon for others is not a new idea. It has been around from the 1st Europeans settling in the harsh NorthEast.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote]MC Just, Good Friday was right. Vatican II and a good number of popes have thaught that Unions were important parts of a capitilist society. All workers should have the right to uninoize, not be punished for doing so, and should be allowed to strike and express grevinces.[/quote] Intrinsically speaking, unions are like the ACLU. They are only bad when corruption get in... Unfortunately, corruption has taken over unions and the ACLU. Unions are meant to protect people from being abused, but they are not meant to cripple businesses with strikes just to get more money, when unnecessary, nor are they meant to raise money for related special interest groups, nor are they meant to cause the cost of living to go up.
Budge Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote]I'm not against allowing other countries to work, even if it does take away potential jobs for Americans. Americans have better opportunities to live comfortably than any other nation I can think of--but they have to be willing to work--which unfortunately, a lot of Americans are unwilling to do. [/quote] How are they supposed to work if there is no jobs? Hmm what Americans do you know who dont work, besides those who are disabled and those who have come into inherited wealth? and if youre going to give me stereotypes about the poor, 90% work, Ive lived in the ghetto.
Iacobus Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 19 2004, 03:29 PM'] i never said they were wrong!! [/quote] Micah kinda did in saying he was anti Union. The only reason I addressed it to you was because of you and Good Friday's dilouge on the issue before this post.
dUSt Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote]How are they supposed to work if there is no jobs?[/quote] There's always jobs for those that have the drive to get one. [quote]Hmm what Americans do you know who dont work, besides those who are disabled and those who have come into inherited wealth?[/quote] My mom. My mother-in-law. My sister. 1/2 of my family on my wife's side. And [b]none[/b] of them are out of work because there are no jobs available. [quote]and if youre going to give me stereotypes about the poor, 90% work, Ive lived in the ghetto.[/quote] I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. I'm not even going to comment on what types of places I've lived in my life, because it's irrelevant to the argument.
JESOd Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 I did not vote, for I do not apply to either. I'm a hard right conservative who is a memebr of the Consitution Party. I am voting for Peroutka. I don't want to decide on the lesser evil, I want a good and moral choice because that it is the number one thing I care about in politics. For those of you who don't know, he is the ONLY presidential canidate 100% against abortion. His slogan is "God, Family, Republic." If you would like to look at his responses to more issues, please check him out on [url="http://www.peroutka2004.com"]http://www.peroutka2004.com[/url] Remember to always vote on morals first, the little things will be fixed up by God.
dUSt Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote name='JESOd' date='Aug 19 2004, 05:43 PM'] I did not vote, for I do not apply to either. I'm a hard right conservative who is a memebr of the Consitution Party. I am voting for Peroutka. I don't want to decide on the lesser evil, I want a good and moral choice because that it is the number one thing I care about in politics. For those of you who don't know, he is the ONLY presidential canidate 100% against abortion. His slogan is "God, Family, Republic." If you would like to look at his responses to more issues, please check him out on [url="http://www.peroutka2004.com"]http://www.peroutka2004.com[/url] Remember to always vote on morals first, the little things will be fixed up by God. [/quote] Peroutka is definitely the best candidate, [b]but[/b] we should also use common sense and reason when deciding who to vote for. If we are [b]truly[/b] concerned with saving the lives of pre-born babies, then we should vote for a pro-life candidate who has a chance of winning. Unfortunately, if we don't do this, we are unintentionally helping the pro-death candidate win the election.
jmjtina Posted August 19, 2004 Posted August 19, 2004 [quote name='Sammy Blaze' date='Aug 16 2004, 06:48 PM']I am no fan of Bush and If I vote for him, it will be solely for the fact that he can make abortion illegal ( I really doubt he'll actually do that, since he hasn't said anything to prove he's a Pro-Life activist) [/quote] He hasn't [i]said[/i] anything?!?! I just had to point out that many ppl make the statement that he is no Pro-Life Activist and he hasn't made abortion illegal by now, so heck, he's not doing anything. I mean come on! He's had four years to do it! [quote]President George W Bush- Signed the Partial Birth Abortion Act into law on Nov 5 2003 and said "for years, a terrible form of violence has been directed against children who are inches from birth, while the law looked the other way." [color=red]Senator John Kerry- Voted no on the PBA ban act and voted numerous times against previous attempts to outlaw partial birth abortion. [/color] Bush- Signed the Unborn Victims of Violence Act (Laci and Connors law) into law on April 1 2004. This recognizes unborn children as victims when they are injured or killed during the commission of federal or military crimes. [color=red]Kerry- Voted against the UVV act and voted in favor of a sub amendment that would have only recognized one victim when a pregnant woman and her child are attacked. [/color] Bush- Early in his presidency GWB reinstated the Mexico City policy, which prevents tax dollars from being given to organizations that perform and promote abortions overseas. [color=red]Kerry- Has stated that his first executive order if elected would be to "reverse the Mexico City policy..." This action would give our tax dollars to organizations that perform and promote abortions overseas. [/color] Bush- Is against taxpayer dollars being used to pay for abortions. While he was governor of TX, Bush filed a friend of the court brief stating his strong opposition to an attempt to compel the state to pay for elective abortions. [color=red]Kerry- Voted numerous times to allow abortions at US military medical facilities and has voted at least 25 times in favor of using taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions in the US [/color] Bush- Has addressed the March for Life via telephone. [color=red]Kerry- Attends and is a featured speaker at pro-abortion rallies. [/color] Bush- Backs a ban on all human cloning. [color=red]Kerry- Opposes a ban on all human cloning. [/color] Bush- Endorsed by numerous prolife organizations including Right to Life of MI Political Action Committee. [color=red]Kerry- Endorsed by Planned Parenthood Action Fund. Planned Parenthood is Americas #1 abortion provider, providing 227,375 abortions in 2002.[/color] Bush- Ruled that federally controlled substances cannot be used to assist in suicides. [color=red]Kerry- Has said that we will fillibuster any Supreme Court nominees who don't support abortion and if elected president would only nominate judges who support his position on abortion. [/color] [/quote] now you see what can happen if Bush is not in office to keep defending life? Who is willing to do [i]anything[/i] for the Pro-Life cause? With much prayers, maybe he'll strongly support the Pro-Life Cause, but look at the alternative and it is truly a matter of life and death. Pax Christi. +JMJ
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