IcePrincessKRS Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Katie, can you give me an instance where saying shi% might be NOT a sin? Or in that case, even productive for whatever reason? Venting is not a reason either, because there are plenty of vent words that aren't swear words. Lik FUge, or SHoot, or DArn. While I agree with you that vulgarities are never really appropriate or productive, I think that in some cases where they are used in jest they wouldn't be sinful. One could say "the sh** just hit the fan" and that wouldn't be a sin. When I was in college I was in the mail room one day, sitting on the counter and our chaplain came into the room with an armload of papers. I immediately jumped off the counter so he could use it. Laughing he looked at me and said "If I sat on that the whole beaver dam thing would fall down." Again, not productive or appropriate, but I don't think that its a sin. In the course of this conversation, if we were sitting face to face I wouldn't be spelling out the words or saying "the S word" I'd just say it, in the context of the conversation I don't think it would be a sin. Also, I think that using vulgarities when venting in most cases IS sinful, at least venial, because often in venting anger is involved and anger is a sin. Likewise, when angry if you say words like "fudge/frikken," "darn" etc., I think they also could be at least venial sins because you know what they mean or are being used in place of. I may very well be wrong on that point, but thats just how it seems to me. Now, I'm not condoning the use of vulgarities, and I don't think what I said is across the board for all cases of jest or venting, but as a general rule to most cases I think it applies. Further, I can't see how saying a word in and of itself is objectively sinful--you're saying that that word is sinful, that by simply saying it one is put, at least, into a state of venial sin and that doesn't make sense to me. I know it CAN be a sin, but I don't think it always is. Obviously I'm not super studied in this, but I'm going to take Mr. O'H's word for it, considering he's been teaching Theology--that course in particular--for over 20 years and is constantly re-studying the material so as to have the most current Church teachings, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempleofVesarius Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 I've been around the block a few times myself, I know what the difference between real punk and wanna be pop punk is. my point song by Anti-Flag(Punk enough for ya?) "A bunch of punks hangin' out on the streets before a show Patty wagon pulls up -instinct- "Run Man, let's just go!" Cop chases them through the streets and then they go inside They run into a show where maybe they can hide F*** POLICE F*** POLICE F*** POLICE BRUTALITY! F*** POLICE F*** POLICE F*** POLICE BRUTALITY! F*** POLICE F*** POLICE F*** POLICE BRUTALITY! F*** POLICE F*** POLICE F*** POLICE BRUTALITY!" Vs. say...matchbox 20 "I'm sorry 'bout the attitude I need to give when I'm with you But no one else would take this s*** from me And I'm so Terrified of no one else but me I'm here all the time I won't go away It's me, yeah I can't get myself to go away It's me, and I can't get myself to go away" One to me is offensive and inartistic, the other, if I wasnt looking for it I prolly wouldnt even notice it was there. It is pretty obvious to me by comparing those two that issue is not an absolute one. It is very hard to find a definate right and wrong. I suppose the degree of "wrongness" depends upon how offensive it is to you, because isnt that what makes it wrong?...That it offends you?...and its is your choice to expose yourself to it. And kate....rock tha darn house! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 no offense....BuT anti-flag was like the worst excuse you could have usen you could have compared "mary had a little lamb" compared to anti-flag adn i would have thought "mary had a little lamb" was more artistic! LOL no seriously....they are nOt punk, thats not what i listen too...punk isn't always saying the "F" word, hundred times like they do and call it a song, no, like that song did, that was in NO way artistic, that example had nada artistication (ie anti-flag) ...nope see my punk you don't have any of that ... when i was talking about punk, i was talking about that. i have NeVeR listened to anti-flag, nor have ever heard of them, maybe its hardcore, screaming punk...and thats why i don't listen to it. those lyrics are ridaculous..who would listen to that? i don't! heck i would throw away the cd after just reading the title and lyrics.....get me? i don't listen to that, never have, never will. the punk i listen to does not have lyrics like that...in fact let me give you lyrics to my favorite band.... SLick Shoes (a christian punk band) VERY talented, very artistic and nowhere near "basic elements" Angel Looking into your eyes I've seen all I want to be and I don't want it to end. If I could only put to words the way I see you. I only know I have an angel with me now. And when I fall asleep your all that I see. You're in my thoughts and all of my prayers. I wish I could mean all that you mean to me. But I could never find the words to tell you. And when I fall asleep your all that I see. You're in my thoughts and all of my prayers. I wish I could mean all that you mean to me. And when I fall asleep your all that I see. You're in my thoughts and all of my prayers. I wish I could mean all that you mean to me. My angel without wings. see what i mean? perfect. song.....so crisp and it rocks at the same time and its PUNK! thats a nite and day comparison to your example of Anti-Flag....wheew! great expression and being artistic..sweet guitar playing and great vocals and a great triple -beat making it one amesome one....one of their best i think the wrong in it is the simple fact of using it....it could be used in the most artistic way but it doesn't change the fact that you used "that word"....doesn't have to offend, doesn't have to be exposure, if its included, thats all you need....IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempleofVesarius Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 ohhhhhh...im sorry....you never said anything about CHRISTIAN punk... see the punk I know is the stuff that people who are real "punks" listen to... not to insult you or anything...I agree the genre of punk you are refering to is the better of the two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodsGrace Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 man, ya'll are way too in to this...it's simply...YA DON'T SAY IT...I mean to me if I don't say it, it's better that not listening to it. Granted words like shoot, darn, & fudge aren't the words to help you vent...but still. I don't know I kinda wish that it was totally wrong for girls to cuss, b/c then I wouldn't...but since it's accepted It's easily used for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodsThespianChic Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 OK...here's some more punk/emo without cursing... I'm Alright by Sugarcult Don't wanna be here. Repeating a new year. Don't wanna let you down. 'Cause i'm in a new town. Surrounded by let downs. I don't wanna let you down. I'm alright. I'm gonna make it. Even if i gotta fake it I'm alright I'm gonna make it. Even if i gotta break it. I'm alright. I'm in a new place. And you're now in my face. I don't wanna let you down. And i need my distance. 'Cause i'm feeling selfish. I don't wanna let you down. I'm alright. I'm gonna make it. Even if i gotta fake it. I'm alright I'm gonna make it. Even if i gotta break it. I'm alright. I'm just a memory of everything i'll ever need. I'm gonna make it now. Always...let you down.[x3] I'm alright. I'm gonna make it. Even if i gotta fake it. Im alright. I'm gonna make it. Even if i gotta break it. I'm alright. Don't wanna be here. Repeating a new year. I'm alright. Don't wanna let you down. I'm in a new town. Surrounded by let downs. Don't wanna let you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 man, ya'll are way too in to this...it's simply...YA DON'T SAY IT...I mean to me if I don't say it, it's better that not listening to it. Granted words like shoot, darn, & fudge aren't the words to help you vent...but still. I don't know I kinda wish that it was totally wrong for girls to cuss, b/c then I wouldn't...but since it's accepted It's easily used for me. thank you thats what i've been trying to say....you just don't say it...i hope thats come across cuz thats what i've been saying, no matter what way, its still wrong.... as for the punk music, i give up, its hard conversing when the other person doesn't know what punk is and doesn't know what your talking about and what punk really is.....hehe but its okay temple, its okay.... i was talking about ReAL punk bands...... i only use a christian band for the example cuz thats my fav song, but out of the 10+ punk bands i listen too, only like 3 are christian.....and the other bands are just as clean with no bad words and good and artistic in talent (guitar leads that would blow your socks off!) and "elements" as any music i've heard.... as the others but anyways, nevermind punk is something that is hard for some ppl to understand...so ......i'm done defending it...it don't matter anyways....its hard to explain. both ppl have different aspects of that genre and its practically impossible to cross fences...no one knows what "real" punk is and its fustrating.......oh well....will the sterotype ever die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodsThespianChic Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Nope, the stereotype will never die. Most people still think that Blink182 is the opitome (sp?) of punk...it's just pop. But oh well. You don't have to defend your music. If you like it, that's all you need to know. That's how I feel about music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempleofVesarius Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 (edited) ok...i agree that people will never stop thinking blink is punk...but when i think of punk i think of bands like the ramones, anti-flag, stuff like that. I consider sugarcult as one heck of a band, but punk,...but thats besides the point of all this... I know you can just not say it and hearing in a song isnt really a sin. The thing ia I WRITE songs and in some of them I do use a little profanity and I fail to see where that is wrong or sinfull. Is it offensive?...yes everything is offensive to someone. I am offended by people who spit in front of me. That doesnt make spitting wrong or sinful, its just gross. Edited July 16, 2003 by TempleofVesarius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRose Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I have a question. It's sorta off-topic, but it's still something to do with music, and since you all are talking about types of bands... People ask me what kind of genre of music I like best. Well I like everything, but my favorite stuff is stuff by Matchbox Twenty, The Calling, Sister Hazel, The RHCPeppers (sometimes), stuff like that... What do you call that? Is that just rock? Please for the love of pizza do not tell me it's "pop". I'll have to retreat to a faraway island, never to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempleofVesarius Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 maistream rock... as long as you write your own songs I cant consider you pop...lol ohh yeah AVRIL smells of elderberries!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 **** I am offended by people who spit in front of me. That doesnt make spitting wrong or sinful, its just gross. **** I agree with you on this one totally, spitting is disgusting. Do you know who we get this trait from? lol Dad. Of all the random things he does, he can't stand spitting. I mean, I've seen the man pick his nose and belch and pass gas without batting an eyelash, but you spit and he has a cow. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knight Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Got Dandruff! Some of it itches! Oh, coagulated milk and rice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodsThespianChic Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Ummm....wow...random much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 One can be pure without being a Puritan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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