To Kneel Or Not To Kneel?

[cmotherofpirl]

The GIRM says in the US we kneel, so we kneel.

Why do you care if other people are doing it wrong? If they ask you why you kneel, you can explain that is what you are [u]supposed [/u]to be doing.

Ask the priest why he is doing it wrong, then if he can't help you, ask your bishop.

Obedience is to the Church, not to a particular priest who is in error.

[Paladin D]

Odd thing is, even though our parish doesn't kneel... they bow after the consencration of the bread and wine (one bow for each).

[cmotherofpirl]

That is an option when it is not possible to kneel.

Why is it impossible to kneel in your parish?

[McKenzie]

At my college, the Abbot told us not to kneel except from the "May the Holy Spirit come upon these gifts... do this in memory of me" (after consecration of wine to Blood). This is the only time we are to kneel. Is this improper? Since the Abbot, who is the "local ordinary" said to do this, are we to obey him or what? This has been bothering me for quite some time, so any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks; God bless.

[phatcatholic]

p0lar? Cam?

[HartfordWhalers]

[quote name='McKenzie' date='Sep 9 2004, 10:08 PM'] At my college, the Abbot told us not to kneel except from the "May the Holy Spirit come upon these gifts... do this in memory of me" (after consecration of wine to Blood). This is the only time we are to kneel. Is this improper? Since the Abbot, who is the "local ordinary" said to do this, are we to obey him or what? This has been bothering me for quite some time, so any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks; God bless. [/quote]
No, that is not what the GIRM says. You should not listen to that. You should bring up what the GIRM says, and ask him why he is doing it incorrectly. I think cmom or polar may know where exactly this is in the GIRM--I'm not up on the "latest" in Liturgy, since I follow the Traditional Latin Mass, not the Novus Ordo.

[Cam42]

[quote]You should bring up what the GIRM says, and ask him why he is doing it incorrectly.[/quote]

I already addressed that.

[quote]I think cmom or polar may know where exactly this is in the GIRM--I'm not up on the "latest" in Liturgy...[/quote]

I already addressed that too....GIRM no.43.



[quote]I follow the Traditional Latin Mass, not the Novus Ordo.[/quote]

God Bless you. I follow both and love the liturgical diversity of both. I daresay that I am one of a handful of people left in the world that can emcee both a Pontifical High Mass (Trid.) [b]AND[/b] and Pontifical Mass (Missa Normativa).

This may be for another thread, but I am not a fan of calling the Mass of 1975 the Novus Ordo. I think that calling it the Missa Normativa is much more respectful and correct. While I understand that the [i]Trids[/i] make a distinction, there really isn't one.....perhaps we can get this going on another thread.

Cam

[cmotherofpirl]

I think [i]Ordo Missae[/i] is correct as well.

[Cam42]

Actually, the [i]Ordo Missae[/i] is a separate thing. It is the order of Mass. It is the booklet that contains the reading lists and the index of saints.

[b]Missa Normativa[/b] is more correct, because it is the Noramtive Mass. The Mass of 1975 or the Mass that we have today is most properly called Missa Normativa.

God Bless,

Cam42

[phatcatholic]

"Novus Ordo" is still correct right?

[Cam42]

[quote]"Novus Ordo" is still correct right?[/quote]

Ok, here is my take on this....Novus Ordo Missae. It means literally the New Order of the Mass.

It is a term that defines the Mass of 1970 (1975) or Mass of Paul VI. It has been adopted by traditional Catholics to deliniate the two Masses. I find that the defining of the Liturgies as being a little disingenious. We don't have separate liturgies like the East. There is substantial difference between the Liturgies of St. Basil, St. James, and St. John Crysostom. We have one Mass. Contrary to popular belief, the "Tridentine" is the [b]exception to the norm.[/b]

Hence the term for the Mass of 1970 as the [i]Missa Normativa[/i] or the Normative Mass.

The problem comes in where the tradtional Catholics have defined this as the transitional Mass of 1964. It is more correctly stated that the Missa Normativa is the Mass that is normative and not the exception.

Personally, I think that naming the Mass is a travesty. It is the unbloody Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary. It is the Divine Liturgy. That is enough. The Tridentine Mass, while nostalgic and certainly valid, is not normative in public. (While it is true that any priest may say the Tridentine Mass privately, they must have an indult {permission} to celebrate that Mass publicly.)

So, I guess to call the Mass the Novus Ordo is acceptable, but I would much rather see it celebrated properly. If that were the case, we would quickly see that the differences are not that extreme. The excess was eliminated and the pious trappings were taken away.

The problem lies in the fact that so many abuses have been perpetrated that the Mass has to be continually redefined. That is not the Mass's fault, but the fault of the heirarchy (through the years) and the faithful for not educating themselves on the Mass. Sorry, we are to blame too. We are part of the Church militant.

If we read the GIRM and actually follow it, there would be no need for naming the Sacred Liturgy, but rather an authentic love for it.

Cam42

[phatcatholic]

hmmm, interesting

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Sep 7 2004, 09:25 AM'] [b]In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[/b] [/quote]
I paid extra attention to this today. This is exactly what we do. What are others doing? I'm so confused...

[Cam42]

[quote]This is exactly what we do. What are others doing?[/quote]

Some parishes stand....some parishes kneel for only the consecration....some parishes allow the faithful to do whatever they feel.....yuck...

Praise God that your parish follows the rules.

Cam42

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 19 2004, 01:32 PM'] I paid extra attention to this today. This is exactly what we do. What are others doing? I'm so confused... [/quote]
If they are doing anything other than this, they are wrong.