Lifeteen

[Azriel]

Tristan shoved a pea up his nose one time.

[littleflower+JMJ]

I had a very small rock stuck in my nose when I was 6.

no way!

my sister (not tina) got a M&M stuck in her nose once...

it was funny....

afterwards :ph34r: :rolleyes:

[MC Just]

Here is something to ponder

An open letter to those involved with Life Teen.

April 27, 2001

Since our article criticizing the Life Teen Mass was posted we have had a surprising amount of responses, mostly from those involved with the Life Teen Mass.  While some have mentioned how much inspiration they receive by this style of liturgy, none have really addressed the fundamental reason for my criticism.  I suspect this is simply because there is no defense for open rebellion against the magisterial authority of the Church.  Although this letter was originally intended for one young man, due to the responses, we have decided to make this an open letter to all involved with Life Teen.

Dear Life Teens,

With heartfelt concern I would like to give you my own reasons why the “lively” Teen Mass is inappropriate.  The feel good songs of praise, the tambourine shaking and the hooting and hollering is well and good in another setting outside of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.  The reason is this.  There is an extremely poor understanding of the Theology of the Mass, of knowing what exactly takes place at every Mass.  If every Catholic understood, the Church itself would be transformed.

Every time you enter into a Catholic Church and prepare yourself for the Sacrifice, you leave the world behind and enter into Calvary.  Time stands still and you are no longer in 2001 for the Mass is “other worldly”.  This is a mystery that you are not meant to understand but it makes this truth no less a reality.  You are present with Jesus and the Apostles in the upper room.  Jesus is getting ready to spill out His blood for your sins.  He is getting ready to suffer.  This was not a “happy” time for Him.  You are one of the apostles sitting at the table with Him.  You feel Christ’s sadness, see His distress, are ready to go to the garden, to pray and to watch with Him.

After that you begin to walk the road to Calvary.  And if you are one of the brave ones, as Christ’s Mother, St. John the Beloved, and St. Mary Magdalene was, you will walk the way with Christ and stand beneath the cross and see His blood spilled and His Life poured out for you alone.  We’ve often heard that if we were the only one in the world, Christ would’ve died for me.  This is a personal thing.  At Mass these realities should be every present to everyone there.  When the focus is on feeling good and having a good time we forget that Jesus is getting ready to shed His blood and our sins are what put Him on the cross.

If Jesus were to come in the clouds today or were to show up in your living room I don’t believe that you would play some “happening” music or shake your tambourine.  In Revelations St. John saw the “Lamb looking as if slain” and St. John “fell down as if dead”.  We too would fall down on our faces and cry, “Have mercy!”  We have an extremely poor understanding of the ugliness of every sin in comparison with the beauty of God and therefore we consider ourselves somewhat “worthy” of this redemption thing so we have no true fear of the Lord or appreciation for what actually took place on Calvary.  One tiny venial sin is so incompatible with the complete goodness of God that our tiny minds cannot fathom how ugly our souls must be compared to the perfection of Christ.  When we make the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass a “feel good” thing we take the emphasis off Christ and put it on ourselves.  One could easily say the Mass becomes a “self-worship” thing  instead of true worship of the Living God.  All our attention should be on God and absolutely nothing should bring attention to ourselves.  I say come down off that altar where no one belongs but the Priest who represents Christ, the great High Priest, fall down on your face and make reparation for your sins.  “A contrite heart, O God, you will not spurn”.

Hopefully you will better understand what takes place in every Mass.  If you love to sing songs of praise and dance to the Lord that is a wonderful thing.  But we must also be willing to forget ourselves, unite ourselves to Christ’s sacrifice and enter into the mysteries of our salvation.  We must go to Calvary at Mass, prepare our hearts to receive him by confessing our sins to a priest often and by spending much time in quiet prayer before receiving our Lord sacramentally in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.  The Mass is primarily a Sacrifice and we can never lose sight of this fact lest our celebrations become “love feasts” with ourselves.  None of us would’ve been dancing in the aisles at the Last Supper.  Nor should we be at Mass.

In Christ’s love Your sister in Him,

Janet Inman, SFO

I agree with this. The Mass is not a place for a Party. If they have lifeteen Masses, they should go along with how the Mass is suppose to be, not make their own style of the Mass. In fact I think it should be absolutely forbidden for people to add in and change things in the Mass, doesnt matter who's there celebrating it.

[dUSt]

I agree with this. The Mass is not a place for a Party. If they have lifeteen Masses, they should go along with how the Mass is suppose to be, not make their own style of the Mass. In fact I think it should be absolutely forbidden for people to add in and change things in the Mass, doesnt matter who's there celebrating it.

And some people think Catholic Hip-Hop Rappers are liberal. lol

[Dave]

I agree with this. The Mass is not a place for a Party. If they have lifeteen Masses, they should go along with how the Mass is suppose to be, not make their own style of the Mass. In fact I think it should be absolutely forbidden for people to add in and change things in the Mass, doesnt matter who's there celebrating it.

Actually, it IS absolutely forbidden for people to change things in and add to the Mass. But too many people -- priests and laity alike -- just don't care.

[jasJis]

It's not a party, despite the slander ignorant people claim.

Write to your Diocecesan Director of Liturgy or something.

Not all the Bishops are ignorant putzes.

Try reading the GIRM yourselves and discuss it with your Diocesan Bishop.

386. The renewal of the Roman Missal, carried out in our time in accordance with the decrees of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, has taken great care that all the faithful may engage in the celebration of the Eucharist with that full, conscious, and active participation that is required by the nature of the Liturgy itself and to which the faithful, in virtue of their status as such, have a right and duty.147

In order, however, to enable such a celebration to correspond all the more fully to the norms and the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy, certain further adaptations are set forth in this Instruction and in the Order of Mass and entrusted to the judgment either of the Diocesan Bishop or of the Bishops' Conferences.

387. The Diocesan Bishop, who is to be regarded as the high priest of his flock, and from whom the life in Christ of the faithful under his care in a certain sense derives and upon whom it depends,148 must promote, regulate, and be vigilant over the liturgical life in his diocese. It is to him that in this Instruction is entrusted the regulating of the discipline of concelebration (cf. above, nos. 202, 374) and the establishing of norms regarding the function of serving the priest at the altar (cf. above, no. 107), the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds (cf. above, no. 283), and the construction and ordering of churches (cf. above, no. 291). With him lies responsibility above all for fostering the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy in the priests, deacons, and faithful.

My Bishop believes it forsts the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy in the faithful. You can disagree. We are allowed our own opinions. But just because your opinion differs from my Bishop (and many other Bishops) doesn't make those Bishops wrong.

[dUSt]

I agree with my bishop. lol

[jasJis]

I think I need to up my meds. :blink:

[littleflower+JMJ]

i hope your feelign okay jasJis :)

[JP2Iloveyou]

It's not a party, despite the slander ignorant people claim.

Write to your Diocecesan Director of Liturgy or something.

Not all the Bishops are ignorant putzes.

Try reading the GIRM yourselves and discuss it with your Diocesan Bishop.

My Bishop believes it forsts the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy in the faithful. You can disagree. We are allowed our own opinions. But just because your opinion differs from my Bishop (and many other Bishops) doesn't make those Bishops wrong.

well, with all due respect to your Bishop, there are many bishops in this country and elsewhere in the world who feel quite differently. Most liturgists who know what they are doing with regards to the GIRM feel differently. In the two paragraphs you quoted, it says nothing about a Bishop being allowed to disregard the rubrics. There are certain things that a Bishop may or may not do, for example: determine if Holy Communion in his see will be distributed under one or both species, determining if females should be allowed to serve on the altar, and, as it said, the construction and ordering of churches. It DOES NOT say that he can decide on his own to throw out rubrics he disagrees with. I do not wish to criticize a Successor of the Apostles and I am not going to, I am merely pointing out that when a rubric is already clearly spelled out, as it is regarding who is permitted in the Sanctuary and who is not, the Bishop does not have the power to change it. Even the USCCB does not have the power to change it. I'll give a simple example. In this country, many parishes use glass patens and chalices. The GIRM says they are to be metal. The USCCB can not just say, "Go ahead and use glass." They have to apply for an indult to Rome first and IF Rome says OK, then they can use glass. The same applies in this case.

Someone also mentioned that Lifeteen is similar to a wedding or to RCIA. First of all, people are allowed in the sanctuary during a wedding, but only those assisting with the ceremony. The bride and the groom are the ministers of the sacrament (the priest of deacon is only a witness) and others such as the Maid of Honor or the Best Man clearly have larger roles. As for RCIA, I see no reason why they should be treated any different. As far as I know, RCIA has not received an indult from Rome on this matter either.

Just follow the rules. It's not that hard. Among dioceses that are routinely considered the most "orthodox" in the U.S., this is not practiced, yet they are thriving in vocations and their youth ministry is on fire. Disobedience is not needed.

[jasJis]

well, with all due respect to your Bishop, there are many bishops in this country and elsewhere in the world who feel quite differently.

BINGO!

With all due respect to the Bishop of your Diocese!

I don't sit in judgement of my Bishop. I respect his judgement, and I respect the judgement of the neighboring Bishop who does not allow standing in the Sancturary.

The have differing opinions. They are both Bishops and Princes of the Holy Catholic Church that is graced with the eternal abiding of the Holy Spirit. They also don't see it as changing the rubrics, but making adaptations to foster the Spirit if the Sacrifice and Celebration of the Mass.

With all due respect, I may question, but it is not respectful to condemn when it is defended with a reasonable explaination.

To me it's less grave to allow teens standing in the Sanctuary as part of a catachesis program for teens that I've seen generate tremendous fruits in piety, devoutness, understanding, and enthusiasm in the kids. The LifeTeen Mass, as the Mass is a big part of LifeTeen. There is also the weekly Catechesis, Retreats, service projects, volenteering, peer counseling, peer teaching, community prayer, Eucharistic Adoration, participation in the Sacraments, etc., etc., etc.

With all due respect for the Bishops of both Diocese, the congregation of the Diocese owes outward respect and obedience. I still personally question the Altar Gather, but out of respect for my Bishop (who I questioned), I don't undermine his authority behind his back. I do support my parish's LifeTeen program and is one of the volunteers. We have a fantastic program with 200+ kids who belong and participate of their own volition, and an additional 250++ in the 2 year confirmation program with 3 or 4 dozen adult volunteers.

mp15 gave a sharp picture of some people's priorites when decideing to support LifeTeen. I kept an open mind and volunteered and participated despite some mis-givings. I now support it for the graces that are provided in the program.

If we get a new Bishop next week, and he decides to disallow the Altar Gather. Then in obedience to him, that's the way it is to be. If the Bishop decides to disallow the entire LifeTeen program, then that's the way it is to be. If the Bishop decides to leave it up to the parish priest, and he doesn't want it in his parish, that's the way it is to be.

Frankly, I'm tired of the culture of discension. Part of Christ's teachings of giving to Ceasar what is Ceasar's is to obey the people who are in position of Authority, both in the Church, and in Civil Government. My role and authority is much samller and different than a Pastor or Bishop. But my duty is the same. To do my part to serve the Lord and help make my parish a loving and loyal part of the Catholic Church.

[cmotherofpirl]

Yes it is. But many people are in the unenviable position of choosing between loyalty to a particular parish and/or Bishop and loyalty to the Church.

Pray for them.

I am in a mostly orthodox diocese ( except the nuns). But if I ever have to choose my loyalty is to the Church first, and particular people or places second.

[dUSt]

I believe that to be loyal to the Church, one has to be loyal to their bishop. Until that bishop is reprimanded by Rome or removed from his position, he's the local authority--a succesor to Peter.

[jasJis]

I think Luther also said he was in the unenvialble position of choosing loyalty to the Church or loyalty to God.

Edited September 27, 2003 by jasJis

[ryanmeyersmusic]

CATECHISM:

1328: The inexhaustible richness of this sacrament is expressed in the different names we give it. Each name evokes certain aspects of it. It is called: Eucharist, because it is an action of thanksgiving to God. The Greek words eucharistein and eulogein recall the Jewish blessings that proclaim—especially during a meal—God's works: creation, redemption, and sanctification. 1329: The Lord's Supper, because of its connection with the supper which the Lord took with his disciples on the eve of his Passion and because it anticipates the wedding feast of the Lamb in the heavenly Jerusalem. The Breaking of Bread, because Jesus used this rite, part of a Jewish meal, when as master of the table he blessed and distributed the bread, above all at the Last Supper. It is by this action that his disciples will recognize him after his Resurrection, and it is this expression that the first Christians will use to designate their Eucharistic assemblies; by doing so they signified that all who eat the one broken bread, Christ, enter into communion with him and form but one body in him. The Eucharistic assembly (synaxis), because the Eucharist is celebrated amid the assembly of the faithful, the visible expression of the Church. 1330: The Holy Sacrifice, because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church's offering. The terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, "sacrifice of praise," spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used, since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant. The Holy and Divine Liturgy, because the Church's whole liturgy finds its center and most intense expression in the celebration of this sacrament; in the same sense we also call its celebration the Sacred Mysteries. We speak of the Most Blessed Sacrament because it is the Sacrament of sacraments. The Eucharistic species reserved in the tabernacle are designated by this same name. 1331: Holy Communion, because by this sacrament we unite ourselves to Christ, who makes us sharers in his Body and Blood to form a single body. We also call it: the holy things (ta hagia; sancta)—the first meaning of the phrase "communion of saints" in the Apostles' Creed—the bread of angels, bread from heaven, medicine of immortality,153 viaticum. . . . 1332: Holy Mass (Missa), because the liturgy in which the mystery of salvation is accomplished concludes with the sending forth (missio) of the faithful, so that they may fulfill God's will in their daily lives.

we celebrate the sacrifice of Christ in the knowledge of His resurrection. This is in fact something to be joyful about. The Mass is not meant to dwell in the death of Christ rather to commemorate it in light of His glorious ressurection.

[ryanmeyersmusic]

the title before 1330 is "The memorial of the Lord's Passion and Resurrection"

[nippy316]

bump

[merrymexican]

many many opinions on this issue. Some of you have very valid points.

1st... someone... I think it was mp15 said that this mass should be no different... however the USCCB does allow for 'children's' masses... in which cases some liberties are available. a 'teen' mass would qualify for this and as such there is allowance for certain things... specifically calling the youth around the altar.

Why should we do something special for the teens? Well because the primary Catechesis needs to come when a Catholic is young. This is a time of formation... as a former LIFE TEEN Youth Minister... I believe that bringing the teens around the altar was not just a time to make them feel special... but it was a primarily Catehetical moment, a time when the youth a called to come closer so they can see even more what is going on... which btw... is also the feeling of Fr. Moroney, the head of the office of Liturgy at the USCCB.

On the issue of music... there is nothing wrong w/doing music that is culturally appropriate... I'm sure many of you would be angered if I were to say that people in Nigeria shouldn't do the music that they do for masses... what if I said their music was innappropriate and irreverant of Christ, etc. etc. I would be called a racist a jerk a bastard... many other things. But when a Priest/Music Minister/or Youth Minister wants to do something culturally appropriate for their flock (i.e. use more up to date music) they are suddenly going against the GIRM and yada yada. The Church affirms the use of culturally appropriate music and practices at Mass as long as they follow the rubrics.

We are a culture btw. Just so you know.

[geetarplayer]

I don't think music and "shaking tambourines" should be a major factor in this debate. But just for the record, LifeTeen Masses aren't the only Masses with up-beat music and "tambourines". (By the way, the 12:15 non-LifeTeen Mass I play my guitar at has more tambourine action than the LifeTeen Mass.) More often than not, the only up-tempo music that is played at a LifeTeen Mass are the Opening and Closing Songs, which is no different from a non-LifeTeen Mass. The rest of the songs are typically praise and worship songs, slow and prayerful. Anyway, why shouldn't happy music and dancing be allowed in the Lord's presence? The Mass is a celebration of God's triumph over evil, Jesus' triumph over death!

-Mark

[Anna]

1st... someone... I think it was mp15 said that this mass should be no different... however the USCCB does allow for 'children's' masses... in which cases some liberties are available. a 'teen' mass would qualify for this and as such there is allowance for certain things... specifically calling the youth around the altar.

The USCCB does allow for children's Masses, but I don't think Rome has spoken on them one way or another.

There have been situations where American bishops okay things that are later corrected by Rome, haven't there?

If Rome suggested that such Masses are inappropriate, do you think they would stop?

Also a Teen Mass is not the same as a Children's Mass.

Teens are not "children."

Certain things that are allowed...such as the youth around the altar? If this is allowed by the Church's authority, please show us all where we may read it.

Otherwise, it's just your opinion, which holds no authority whatsoever.

Why should we do something special for the teens? Well because the primary Catechesis needs to come when a Catholic is young. This is a time of formation...

And, attending a Mass as a young adult, observed with reverence and correct rubrics wouldn't be good formation?

as a former LIFE TEEN Youth Minister... I believe that bringing the teens around the altar was not just a time to make them feel special... but it was a primarily  Catehetical moment, a time when the youth a called to come closer so they can see even more what is going on... which btw... is also the feeling of Fr. Moroney, the head of the office of Liturgy at the USCCB.

These youth could volunteer as servers if they just wanted to get close to see better! Then, they wouldn't be blocking us old folks' view!!!

On the issue of music... there is nothing wrong w/doing music that is culturally appropriate...

True, culturally, as an entire nation or race of people which spans many generations.

I'm sure many of you would be angered if I were to say that people in Nigeria shouldn't do the music that they do for masses... what if I said their music was innappropriate and irreverant of Christ, etc. etc. I would be called a racist a jerk ... many other things. But when a Priest/Music Minister/or Youth Minister wants to do something culturally appropriate for their flock (i.e. use more up to date music) they are suddenly going against the GIRM and yada yada.

On the one hand, you are describing a culture which across the board celebrates with a type of music particular to their nation and ethnic background, and which has done so for many, many generations. This cultural "identity" is permitted in the Mass, because it is a reflection of ALL the people of that particular ethnic background. You can't compare American teenager sub-culture to entire nations of mixed age citizenry.

The Church affirms the use of culturally appropriate music and practices at Mass as long as they follow the rubrics.

Again, please direct us to your source, such as an encyclical, Vatican document, Catechism quote?

We are a culture btw. Just so you know.

To what "we" are you referring?

Americans?

No. There is no particular cultural music which reflects American culture as a whole.

There's blues, jazz, rock, hip hop, country and western, rap, etc. and they all represent different little sub-groups and age groups of our culture, but they exclude a wide range of other Americans. So there is NO form of music which can be identified as reflective of all American culture.

Teenagers are not a culture unto themselves.

Pax Christi. <><