DemonSlayer Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 (edited) I think a lot of churches are more like business this days, such as Hillsong Church. Edited September 9, 2004 by DemonSlayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Sep 9 2004, 03:55 PM'] Agreed. Now, each person is their own church. [/quote] God wouldnt give them gifts, if He didnt see them as valid would He? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 [quote]God wouldnt give them gifts, if He didnt see them as valid would He? [/quote] It would be difficult to argue that they didn't contain elements of the truth since we can accept that protestant churches do contain this clearly - most hold to the belief in the Trinity for example and have a clear line on the position of the Bible, so therefore it's not unreasonable to assume that the people of faith within these churches would receive blessings from God is it? The difference of course is that we believe that the Catholic church contains the Fullness of Truth. I believe I received blessings from God when I was involved with protestant churches AND also when I removed myself very far from God when I left the church altogether even though I might not have recognised them.....I'm sure it was all part of the road to my journey home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 [quote name='MorphRC' date='Sep 9 2004, 05:33 AM'] God wouldnt give them gifts, if He didnt see them as valid would He? [/quote] If you are doing homework, doesn't a good teacher praise your efforts even if they aren't 100% correct? God is calling our name and keeping us in existance every single minute o0f our existance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Seems God has more than one Church perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 BUZZZZ wrorg A house divided will fall! These gifts do what, ie what are there fruits? I know a women who was into the occult, later converted, and had all kinds of crazy powers. www.crossveil.net "Where the Bishops are there is the Church, and upon this Rock I shall build my Church (not churches)" And if these gifts are from God, which some may have, it seems to me that the protestants who have them suffer from invinciable ignorence, which God would not punish. The Spirit still moves in our seperated brethern, God does not abandone His people if the abandon Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 (edited) I agree with dUSt. However being one who used to be [b]non-denominational[/b] like, the mindset is that [b]"organized religion"[/b] ties God up. Therefore the new trend [b]"Christianity is not religion"[/b] that is preached on TBN and implied on Christian merchandise. They view religion as man-made rituals and something that the Pharisees were ingulfed in. So, organized religion = bad. Claim non-denominational, claim that you want unity, but with no organized system? They want to live in a Jesus Club environment, not a Kingdom one. Why? So they won't be [b]"bound"[/b] by man-made laws, obligated to obey an earthly authority, and be a part of a system that quenches the Holy Spirit. It's this type of mindset that damages Christianity. Edited September 9, 2004 by Paladin D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 true, i'm a selfish individualist who makes God fit in my own little cozy box. i guess the time i've spent here has been in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 now mulls, don't get bent out of whack! Something that I heard on the radio last night. I think it was Chuck Coleson... He was saying how disagreements within the body of Christ are good! Because it leads to splintering off and ultimately more ministries... I was shocked! I almost ran off the road... read my sig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 [quote name='mulls' date='Sep 9 2004, 12:18 PM'] true, i'm a selfish individualist who makes God fit in my own little cozy box. i guess the time i've spent here has been in vain. [/quote] ahhh mulls, don't say that! we're not saying you're selfish. we just see individualism at the heart of division. the belief that one could interpret the bible for oneself is at the heart of the reformation, is it not? the rejection of the authority of God's Church is at the heart of the reformation, is it not? division has always been a sensitive topic for catholics. even tho it may only be implicitly or even subconsciously, a rejection of the authority of the Church or a choice towards another denomination (or the decision to create your own denomination) is a rejection of Catholicism. it hurts our feelings well, at least it hurts mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted September 9, 2004 Author Share Posted September 9, 2004 [quote name='mulls' date='Sep 9 2004, 12:18 PM'] true, i'm a selfish individualist who makes God fit in my own little cozy box. i guess the time i've spent here has been in vain. [/quote] I wouldn't say that it's been in vain. We're [b]all[/b] selfish to a certain degree. We [b]all[/b] try to fit God into our own cozy little boxes. I can't accuse non-denominational people of doing it without also recognizing that even I, as a Catholic, do it as well. To deny that we do this would be claiming perfection. It's important that we acknowledge our faults. My post was an attempt to look at the whole movement in the big picture--not specifically labelling any individual, but rather attempting to make sense out of the general principle of it. Non-denominationalism is a rejection of organized religion. You surely cannot disagree with that. So, acknowledging that, we can clearly see that it places sole discretion and interpretation of God's will, not on any body of believers, but on the self. I posted the definition of individualism. To me, it seems a statement of fact that it is describing the basis of non-denominationalism. Sure, to the non-denominational believer, they are following God rather than a "system". I understand the concept. I'm simply stating that the concept is one derived from the individual and that individual's assurance that what they personally believe about God is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 (edited) mulls is back wut up kid Edited September 9, 2004 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeful1 Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Sep 9 2004, 12:26 PM'] I agree with dUSt. However being one who used to be [b]non-denominational[/b] like, the mindset is that [b]"organized religion"[/b] ties God up. Therefore the new trend [b]"Christianity is not religion"[/b] that is preached on TBN and implied on Christian merchandise. They view religion as man-made rituals and something that the Pharisees were ingulfed in. So, organized religion = bad. Claim non-denominational, claim that you want unity, but with no organized system? They want to live in a Jesus Club environment, not a Kingdom one. Why? So they won't be [b]"bound"[/b] by man-made laws, obligated to obey an earthly authority, and be a part of a system that quenches the Holy Spirit. It's this type of mindset that damages Christianity. [/quote] OMG! YES!!!! I have some friends that used to be catholic but now go to a nondenominational church and they seem to have this mind set! you and dust have def hit the nail on the head, if only if i could get them to see it as well. well, one of them is a teacher but so many of his beliefs have a such a catholic background to them (HE BELIEVES IN THE TRUE PRESENSE OF THE EUCHARIST!) that i have a theory if you give him a few more years for him to clear up what he thinks what it teaches about salvation and purgatory, he'll come back. My other friend, well he used to be an alterboy and THINKS he knows all about Catholicism but he had a bad relationship with his mom, parents split, gifted musician, but didn't have alot of friends and been to a few cold churches (ya know the story). I think the reason he goes now is to a ND church now is to fullfill his emotional needs and for the music (he play electric guitar there and has a christian metal band). He claims he "got saved" about 6 yrs ago, and says he respects the church and even came to morning mass with me once, but i have a feeling that trying to get him to come back will be like pulling teeth. It's hard for me sometimes b/c sometimes when he talks about his church i just want to shake him and be like " You have NO IDEA what your missing! You Don't know what you left behind!" but I'm trying to be patient with him. I guess sometimes you gotta have milk before you are given meat, but I'm praying for them both. wow that was a long rant! sorry guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Sep 9 2004, 12:26 PM'] I agree with dUSt. However being one who used to be [b]non-denominational[/b] like, the mindset is that [b]"organized religion"[/b] ties God up. Therefore the new trend [b]"Christianity is not religion"[/b] that is preached on TBN and implied on Christian merchandise. They view religion as man-made rituals and something that the Pharisees were ingulfed in. So, organized religion = bad. Claim non-denominational, claim that you want unity, but with no organized system? They want to live in a Jesus Club environment, not a Kingdom one. Why? So they won't be [b]"bound"[/b] by man-made laws, obligated to obey an earthly authority, and be a part of a system that quenches the Holy Spirit. It's this type of mindset that damages Christianity. [/quote] Just a note: The tone of this post was not out of anger, I was in a rather good mood that day. So for those who are non-denominational, please realize I didn't mean it in a harsh way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinner Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Well if you don't like it you can always start your own church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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