Suffering

[jasJis]

[quote name='carrdero' date='Sep 15 2004, 09:11 AM']
The Bible that I now incorporate into my present life is a book entitled Hello It’s Me; An Interview With GOD. It is a modern translation and the only sacred writings I can trust because I K(NOW) both authors intimately.

[img]http://www.jfaproductions.com/hellojacket.jpg[/img] [/quote]
Heeeee Haaaaawwww!!!

[cmotherofpirl]

:spammer: Edited September 15, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[StColette]

[quote name='carrdero' date='Sep 15 2004, 09:11 AM'] The Bible that I now incorporate into my present life is a book entitled Hello It’s Me; An Interview With GOD. It is a modern translation and the only sacred writings I can trust because I K(NOW) both authors intimately.

[/quote]
Okay so the Bible that you're using isn't an actual translation of like the traditional Greek and Hebrew translations? You, yourself just said that it's a book and not actually a Bible. From reading about this book you incorporate as your Bible it seems more or less to be a meditation on things and not really the Gospel. Doesn't the Bible say not to change the Bible such as taking books out or fitting the Bible to one's person wants ?

God Bless,
Jennie

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StColette' date='Sep 15 2004, 02:55 PM'] Okay so the Bible that you're using isn't an actual translation of like the traditional Greek and Hebrew translations? You, yourself just said that it's a book and not actually a Bible. From reading about this book you incorporate as your Bible it seems more or less to be a meditation on things and not really the Gospel. Doesn't the Bible say not to change the Bible such as taking books out or fitting the Bible to one's person wants ?

God Bless,
Jennie [/quote]
THis is the new age book he wrote

[StColette]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Sep 15 2004, 02:26 PM'] THis is the new age book he wrote [/quote]
Yeah, I had a slight inclination that it was

[White Knight]

Suffering is necessary to become more Christ Like.

[StColette]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 15 2004, 08:53 PM'] Suffering is necessary to become more Christ Like. [/quote]
right you are

[carrdero]

[quote]StColette writes: Okay so the Bible that you're using isn't an actual translation of like the traditional Greek and Hebrew translations? You, yourself just said that it's a book and not actually a Bible.[/quote]

It is not THE BIBLE but it is “a bible” (it says so in the first page of the Introduction). Just because I didn’t have my Bible finished at the time THE BIBLE was being bound shouldn’t discount it’s significance.

[quote]StColette writes: From reading about this book you incorporate as your Bible it seems more or less to be a meditation on things and not really the Gospel.[/quote]

It’s the Gospel According to Patrick (My parents named me after a Catholic priest). It is still as real as a REALationship as some other authors have had with GOD. Am I qualifying?

[quote]StColette writes: Doesn't the Bible say not to change the Bible such as taking books out or fitting the Bible to one's person wants ?[/quote]

Possibly, but everyone’s Bible reads and looks different. Go into any bookstore and you will see that they have a whole section dedicated to different Bibles. They even have them in original Hebrew! Besides, I am not looking to edit THE BIBLE anybody can write their own Bible from their own relationship with GOD. I believe GOD still “allows” this.

[quote]cmotherofpirl  writes: THis is the new age book he wrote
StColette writes: Yeah, I had a slight inclination that it was[/quote]

Actually it's Old Age. These TRUTH's have been purported to exist even before the creation of the earth. They may be new to you because you are just becoming aware of these concepts.

[StColette]

[quote]It is not THE BIBLE but it is “a bible” (it says so in the first page of the Introduction). Just because I didn’t have my Bible finished at the time THE BIBLE was being bound shouldn’t discount it’s significance.[/quote]

So just because it says that it's "a bible" on the front page of the introduction you believe it is ? Any book could say it's "a bible" for example say some author wrote a book that was totally fictional but put "this is a bible" on the introductory page. We would know that this isn't a true Bible. Discerning what is true Scripture and what isn't is very important.

[quote]It’s the Gospel According to Patrick (My parents named me after a Catholic priest). It is still as real as a REALationship as some other authors have had with GOD. Am I qualifying?[/quote]

The authors of the books of the Bible were inspired by God and thus wrote the words which God inspired them to write. There is one Gospel but 4 versions of the Gospel. Each of those Gospel versions corresponds with the others. Furthermore each book that is within the Bible does not contradict any of the others. When the completion of the books that would be contained within the Bible centuries ago that Canon of Scripture was closed meaning no books were to be added nor were books to be taken away from Scripture. This example of "a bible" that you gave is showing something that clearly is taking away and adding to the true Bible.

[quote]Possibly, but everyone’s Bible reads and looks different. Go into any bookstore and you will see that they have a whole section dedicated to different Bibles. They even have them in original Hebrew! [/quote]

You're correct there are many different translations of the Bible. But The King James Version has many errors and has books missing from it which makes this Bible version null and void because they took away books of the Bible that were in the original Canon of Scripture which this Canon of Scripture indicated that those books were true Scripture. The main reason for those books to be taken out was do to the fact that those books upheld many of the Catholic Church's teachings.

[quote]Besides, I am not looking to edit THE BIBLE anybody can write their own Bible from their own relationship with GOD. I believe GOD still “allows” this.[/quote]

Umm no one can write their own Bible. There's only one correct form of the Bible and the books within it are the Word of God. God never allowed people to write their own Bible so I'm not to sure where you got that idea at. That would be like saying we could write our own 10 Commandments to live by. God inspired the writing of one Bible.

[quote]Actually it's Old Age. These TRUTH's have been purported to exist even before the creation of the earth. They may be new to you because you are just becoming aware of these concepts.[/quote]

How did you come to the conclusion that the words within that book in which you trust as "a bible" is the Truth that has been in existence since before the creation of the earth ?

[Sinner]

It is apparent a "biblical" discussion will get us nowhere. Perhaps logistics would be better....
Mankind as far as anyone living can recall has always suffered. We can accept it and offer it up for a better purpose.....or we can not accept it and drown ourselves in negative behaviors that will not stop the suffering anyhow. I prefer the idea of suffering with grace and dignity and offering it up to my God.

[Donna]

Re: the topic question:

Yes.

[carrdero]

[quote]StColette writes: So just because it says that it's "a bible" on the front page of the introduction you believe it is ?[/quote]

I guess that question could be asked of anyone who has a book that they call their Bible. I can believe all I want. Believing is free. I have a bit of an advantage with my Bible because I was there during it’s creation, I K(NOW) that the event indeed took place. Though getting other people to believe is not my responsibility nor does it shake my belief.

[quote]StColette writes: Any book could say it's "a bible" for example say some author wrote a book that was totally fictional but put "this is a bible" on the introductory page. We would know that this isn't a true Bible.[/quote]

Actually if you ask any author who has written a book (fiction or non-fiction) any author would feel that their writings are sacred or from the heart and possibly inspired from some source. Have you ever read a timely book? A book that you read (be it fiction or non-fiction) that offered some type of insight that was currently needed at that time in your life? Why can’t we glean something from those moments?

[quote]StColette writes: Discerning what is true Scripture and what isn't is very important.[/quote]

I agree. Unfortunately our means of discerning what is TRUE and what is UNTRUE is somewhat hampered. Pride, stubbornness, ego, faith, hope, unawareness all stand in the way of discerning GOD’s TRUE word.

[quote]StColette writes: The authors of the books of the Bible were inspired by God and thus wrote the words which God inspired them to write.[/quote]

So has my book been inspired by GOD. There all still people being inspired by GOD. GOD never mentioned that our Bibles were finished just that particular volume.

[quote]StColette writes: This example of "a bible" that you gave is showing something that clearly is taking away and adding to the true Bible.[/quote]

Taking away how? I still incorporate THE BIBLE and some of it’s scriptures into my life as I do other books that I enjoy. I would think that in today’s world we could use as much K(NOW)ledge and understanding that we can possibly obtain. I have nothing against THE BIBLE as a book (whether it be PROVEN to be fiction or non-fiction).

[quote]StColette writes: But The King James Version has many errors and has books missing from it which makes this Bible version null and void because they took away books of the Bible that were in the original Canon of Scripture which this Canon of Scripture indicated that those books were true Scripture.[/quote]

I have read through many translations and studied many man-made interpretations of THE BIBLE. One of my inspirations that made me arrive to my Bible was the authors of the Ancient Scriptures. I figured if they could have REALationship with GOD so could I and I was surprised that GOD is available and still taking people’s questions. What I discovered was that I had a lot of questions so why not document them so that I would have something to refer to later.

[quote]StColette writes: Umm no one can write their own Bible.[/quote]

Lo and behold I am holding it in my hand even as I type. It is real. Anyone can write their own Bible, with the different belief systems and different lifestyles people lead everyone has a Bible within them and someday I would enjoy reading them. It is a serious commitment to complete a book of this significance about an entity that someone really desires to understand and I am aware that many
people would not want to pursue this endeavor. Some people are fine with the Bible they have.

[quote]StColette writes: There's only one correct form of the Bible and the books within it are the Word of God.[/quote]

GOD cannot be contained to one book or one moment of time.

[quote]StColette writes: God never allowed people to write their own Bible so I'm not to sure where you got that idea at.[/quote]

I am aware of at least 62 authors that were allowed to write their own Bibles. Most of them were THE BIBLE authors.

[quote]StColette writes: God inspired the writing of one Bible.[/quote]

GOD inspired many authors to write many books. Man was the deciding factor to bind them into one book.

[quote]StColette writes: How did you come to the conclusion that the words within that book in which you trust as "a bible" is the Truth that has been in existence since before the creation of the earth ? [/quote]

TRUTH in these matters is very difficult to discern. Humans could spend many lifetimes PROVING and DISPROVING the TRUTHS in any Bible. The best evidence that I can give in my Bible’s defense is that the entity that did inspire me says that he/she was GOD and the TRUTHs that GOD and I have discussed stand to reason against other beliefs that have been explained or encouraged in my lifetime.

I have read the other posts about staying on topic and if St. Collette or any other PM members would be ineterested in discussing this further we can find a thread that is already debating Bible translations or they can e-mail me at my address.

[carrdero]

Now back to this salvation through suffering topic.

I want everyone to relive the moments after Jesus was arrested, right up until the moment he passed away in the physical. You can use any references you may think of; THE BIBLE, movies, other books. The important thing here is to obtain an accurate image of the suffering that Jesus went through and then I want you to volunteer someone that is close to you (or yourself) and tell me that you would want/expect/desire someone/anyone to go through this same exact procedure of suffering because it is necessary for his/her/your life.

[carrdero]

[quote]White Knight writes: Suffering is necessary to become more Christ Like. [/quote]

Couldn’t we focus on the more positive aspects of Jesus’ ministry? Love, consideration, respect for other humans. Wouldn’t we be well remembered for positively portraying these aspects of Jesus’ life? There is nothing really impressive about dying, everybody can do it and we are really good at it too. What we haven’t perfected yet are these other positive qualities of Jesus’ life.

[PedroX]

Off topic:

One of my favorite cookbooks of all time was the "Cake Bible". I don't know that I would want to live my life by it, but it had great recipes!!

On topic:

Carrdero:

I would indeed volunteer for that suffering if it meant that it would save souls from Hell. In fact, it was that suffering that allowed humanity to be saved from Hell. The Epistle to the Hebrews makes it clear "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sins". The saints through the ages and the many apparations of the Blessed Mother stress over and over that we must endure our sufferings for the sake of our souls. Fastings, kneeling in prayers, accepting the pain of living in this "vale of tears". All of these merit graces.

Also, I would suggest that you look into a good, object history of religions. The new age mumbo jumbo bears only the most superficial aspects in common with any historic pagan worship. The Da Vinci Code is neither objective, nor history.

peace...

[White Knight]

[quote name='carrdero' date='Sep 16 2004, 11:05 AM']
Couldn’t we focus on the more positive aspects of Jesus’ ministry? Love, consideration, respect for other humans. Wouldn’t we be well remembered for positively portraying these aspects of Jesus’ life? There is nothing really impressive about dying, everybody can do it and we are really good at it too. What we haven’t perfected yet are these other positive qualities of Jesus’ life. [/quote]
But that was the whole Propose of Christ's life, was the die for us, not how he lived, even though that "IS" important, its not "The" main reason why he came.


[b]He came to the Earth as a Living Sacrifice, to die for humanities sins, all of them, past, present, future, From the Gerneration of Adam and Eve, to the Last Generation before his Glorious Return. He died for our sins, so that we may be forgiven of our sins, and have a relationship him, He died so we may be able to have to obtian SALVATION, He Conqeurored Death, Hell, and the Grave, by doing this act as well, He Proved it by rasing from the Dead on the Third Day. Yes, his life was important, to teach, Love, Forgiveness, and the Will of the Heavenly Father, But his ULTAMITE GOAL was the DIE for Humanities Sins, so we May have Forgiveness of our sins, have a relationship with Him, and have Salvation.[/b]


The Lord Jesus Christ's life was Important, but His Death was the MAIN Event, It was his reason for being here,


You can't have Christ-MAS without Easter, can't have Easter without Christ-MAS.

[carrdero]

[quote]But that was the whole Propose of Christ's life, was the die for us, not how he lived, even though that "IS" important, its not "The" main reason why he came.[/quote]

Yes but cows. pigs, chickens, fish and plants die everyday so that humans can live with the EXPECTANCY of sinning. These entities are dying the death of Jesus everyday all over the world. Should we martyr the lives of these entities as well? Should I wear an albatross hammer around my neck, or a fishing pole or an egg or an apple tree in respect of these other entities? Should we erect churches and sing praises and worship these entities who have given up their lives just so that we can live only to suffer? Are you going to try to convince me that the lives of plants and animals are insignificant because they are not human?

[quote]You can't have Christ-MAS without Easter, can't have Easter without Christ-MAS. [/quote]

What does Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny have to do with all of this?

[quote]The Lord Jesus Christ's life was Important, but His Death was the MAIN Event, It was his reason for being here[/quote]

[quote]He came to the Earth as a Living Sacrifice, to die for humanities sins, all of them, past, present, future, [/quote]

So how is this all working out? Did everyone stop sinning?

[jasJis]

[quote name='carrdero' date='Sep 17 2004, 08:29 AM']
Yes but cows. pigs, chickens, fish and plants die everyday so that humans can live with the EXPECTANCY of sinning. These entities are dying the death of Jesus everyday all over the world. Should we martyr the lives of these entities as well? Should I wear an albatross hammer around my neck, or a fishing pole or an egg or an apple tree in respect of these other entities? Should we erect churches and sing praises and worship these entities who have given up their lives just so that we can live only to suffer? Are you going to try to convince me that the lives of plants and animals are insignificant because they are not human? [/quote]
Dude,
This is just silliness. You completely ignore Who and What God is and have relegated Him to how you imagine your imaginary friend. It's pointless discussing this with you because you just resort to sophmoric relativeness and won't engage in a logical philisophical discussion.

Why should we listen to you because you don't want to K(NOW) the truth about anything other than they way you want to define it for yourself. You can't even tell the truth about your name. Is it Carrdero or Cardero?

Oh, and Patrick isn't a genious that's just misunderstood. He's an incredibly stupid and moronic starfish who happens to be nice most of the time.

[White Knight]

[quote name='carrdero' date='Sep 17 2004, 08:29 AM']
Yes but cows. pigs, chickens, fish and plants die everyday so that humans can live with the EXPECTANCY of sinning. These entities are dying the death of Jesus everyday all over the world. Should we martyr the lives of these entities as well? Should I wear an albatross hammer around my neck, or a fishing pole or an egg or an apple tree in respect of these other entities? Should we erect churches and sing praises and worship these entities who have given up their lives just so that we can live only to suffer? Are you going to try to convince me that the lives of plants and animals are insignificant because they are not human?



What does Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny have to do with all of this?





So how is this all working out? Did everyone stop sinning? [/quote]
Easter is not about a dang bunny, or a big old person dressed in red, Christ-Mas and Easter are about Jesus, and the era's of his life, Christ-Mas marks his Birth, Easter, Marks his Resserection.


You have to die to yourself, to become more Christ like, and thats Hard, repentance is what Jesus gave us the ability to do. Come to him for forgiveness of Sins, and Do our absolute best to repent of those sins, not keep commiting them over and over again, and asking for forgiveness, no it doesn't work like that, you have to repent, and be truely sorry, and ask for Forgiveness.


The Pigs, Chickens, etc etc, thing you mentioned, dude they aren't even relative to this issue.... why did you bring them up? Those, CHickens, Pigs, and such, didn't do anything special, Jesus, did something important, those varmits didn't.


The Christ-Mas & Easter things: Stop giving credit to those two fictional characters, I know Saint Nick, was real, but Its not about him, its about Jesus, I dont even wanna mention the dang MEB.

[Theoketos]

Err hum

The Cross is the purpose that organized religion teaches..

nogh said.